Canadian Democracy - Takes another hit under Harper

[captain morgan]

About as much sense as claiming that because we've had Liberal PMs who've abused the system for their own interests it's now the turn of the Conservatives. .

I notice that you have no ill comments for the previous administrations that abused the system and all Canadians. Apparently it's only Harper that deserves this signal treatment

We do have a choice and if we keep electing the same scam artist then we really only have ourselves to blame when things go downhill politically..

Like the Liberals?

Adscam
Shawinigate
HRDC Boondoggle
The Dingwall Affair

 

[Redmonton_Rebel]

Actually, the question was a lot simpler than your side-step. Pyramids vs oil sands in scope of engineering.

Anyone can dig a hole and haul stuff out. I'll be impressed with the engineering when a flag unfurls on the top of whatever structure needs a basement that big.

I don't know about you but when discussing the oil sands, scale and impact are much more important issues for me than cultural or historical significance.

In terms of scale the oils sands vastly exceed the Pyramids with as much mass moved in about a week and half to equal the Great Pyramid that probably took a couple of decades to build. In that amount of time there would be enough mass moved at the oil sands to build about 700 Great Pyramids.

Production at the oil sands use some of the largest excavators and earth movers ever and continuously processes hundreds of thousands of tons of material a day to produce the 1.3 million barrels of synthetis crude a day. The material left behind has high concentrations of toxic material and huge amounts of dangerous volatiles are released each year.

Oil sands toxins growing rapidly - The Globe and Mail

Canada’s oil sands mining operations produce vast and fast-growing quantities of deadly substances, including mercury, heavy metals and arsenic, new data released by Environment Canada shows.

The information on pollutants sheds new light on the environmental toll exacted by Canada’s bid to extract oil from bitumen, showing in stark relief how many nasty substances are being laid on the northern Alberta landscape in the process – and how quickly those are growing.

In the past four years, the volume of arsenic and lead produced and deposited in tailings ponds by the country’s bitumen mines – run by Syncrude Canada Ltd., Suncor Energy Inc., (SU-T28.300.903.28%) Canadian Natural Resources Ltd. (CNQ-T30.880.933.11%) and Royal Dutch Shell PLC (RDS.B-N65.650.150.23%) – has increased by 26 per cent. Quantities of some other substances have increased at even faster rates.

The companies also released huge amounts of pollutants into the air last year, including 70,658 tonnes of volatile organic compounds, which can damage the function of human organs and nervous systems, and 111,661 tonnes of sulphur dioxide, a key contributor to acid rain.

I guess if you don't mind someone elses back yard turned into the worlds largest waste dump then the oil sands are just great.

Oil sands production also uses about as much water as the two largest cities in Alberta combined and is scheduled to significantly increase in the coming years. What happens with all the toxic waste, intense water use and massive amounts of CO2 when oil production hits 3 million or even 5 million barrels a day.

Sythetic oil production is one of the most polluting activities in human history as well as being the largest engineering project.

I notice that you have no ill comments for the previous administrations that abused the system and all Canadians. Apparently it's only Harper that deserves this signal treatment



Like the Liberals?

Adscam
Shawinigate
HRDC Boondoggle
The Dingwall Affair

No not like the Liberals, you obviously haven't read my posts.

Go back and read where I think the Red and Blue machines are equally corrupt and how we need a real change in this country before it all goes off the track.

And there is very little difference among three parties up here. It's the simalarities that are striking...............#1. Do anything to ensure longevity in power. #2. Do anything to build up their pension. #3. Do anything to ensure other perks.

The big difference is the NDP has never been in power federally and we have yet to see how much or little they will respect our interests.

Unless the NDP held satanic rituals on Parliament Hill I find it hard to believe they'd be any more damaging to our system than the Liberals and Conservatives in the last few decades. And I bet they'd do a much better job proving just how much they deserve a chance.

It has never been meant to excuse Harper, just prove that the absurd complaints that "It's never been done before" are just that, absurd.

It's an idiot argument, we didn't get rid of Chretien and Martin to have someone else do the same thing.

Like I said, trying to communicate with you on a complex level is like trying to talk to an actual bear.

 

[lone wolf]

I don't know about you but when discussing the oil sands, scale and impact are much more important issues for me than cultural or historical significance.

In terms of scale the oils sands vastly exceed the Pyramids with as much mass moved in about a week and half to equal the Great Pyramid that probably took a couple of decades to build. In that amount of time there would be enough mass moved at the oil sands to build about 700 Great Pyramids.

Production at the oil sands use some of the largest excavators and earth movers ever and continuously processes hundreds of thousands of tons of material a day to produce the 1.3 million barrels of synthetis crude a day. The material left behind has high concentrations of toxic material and huge amounts of dangerous volatiles are released each year.

Y'know, if you're not bright enough to keep up in the conversation and in sub-context within, you're probably best to stay out of it. This sub-context was in scope of engineering project and technology to do it.

... Geez ... and then you have nerve enough to beak off about people not reading YOUR posts....

 

[CDNBear]

About as much sense as claiming that because we've had Liberal PMs who've abused the system for their own interests it's now the turn of the Conservatives.

No one has said that.

It would be nice if you stayed within the realm of reality.

Go back and read where I think the Red and Blue machines are equally corrupt and how we need a real change in this country before it all goes off the track.

I already pointed out where you completely negated the unethical behavior of Chretien. Just because he isn't Harper.

The big difference is the NDP has never been in power federally and we have yet to see how much or little they will respect our interests.

If their provincial track record is a minor measure. They's as good as, but no better than, any past Federal gov't.

Unless the NDP held satanic rituals on Parliament Hill I find it hard to believe they'd be any more damaging to our system than the Liberals and Conservatives in the last few decades. And I bet they'd do a much better job proving just how much they deserve a chance.

We already know you're a shill.

It's an idiot argument...

I guess that's why you made it.

Like I said, trying to communicate with you on a complex level is like trying to talk to an actual bear.

Maybe if you stopped lying to me, and tried actually communicating, you'd make some headway.

 

[Goober]

If this succeeeds that would mean 8 ridings for new vote.Could make for a smaller majority.

Conservatives ask court to dismiss election case - Politics - CBC News

The results of the May 2, 2011 election are being challenged in the following ridings:
Don Valley East in Ontario, won by Conservative MP Joe Daniel by 870 votes.
Nipissing-Timiskaming in Ontario, won by Conservative MP Jay Aspin by 18 votes.
Saskatoon-Rosetown-Biggar in Saskatchewan, won by Conservative Kelly Block by 538 votes.
Vancouver Island North in B.C., won by Conservative John Duncan by 1,827 votes.
Winnipeg South Centre in Manitoba, won by Conservative MP Joyce Bateman by 722 votes.
Elmwood-Transcona in Manitoba, won by Conservative MP Lawrence Toet by 300 votes.
Yukon won by Conservative Ryan Leef by 132 votes.

 

[Redmonton_Rebel]

Y'know, if you're not bright enough to keep up in the conversation and in sub-context within, you're probably best to stay out of it. This sub-context was in scope of engineering project and technology to do it.

... Geez ... and then you have nerve enough to beak off about people not reading YOUR posts....

Whatever...I don't know what you're talking about and I could care less, for me this isn't about playing some idiotic mind games.

The oil sands are on a scale and have an impact that hasn't been seen before in one project in history, whatever the **** you're talking about is about as pointless as tits on a bull as far as I'm concerned.

 

[JLM]

Y'know, if you're not bright enough to keep up in the conversation and in sub-context within, you're probably best to stay out of it. This sub-context was in scope of engineering project and technology to do it.

... Geez ... and then you have nerve enough to beak off about people not reading YOUR posts....

Which is probably the case and if so you are beating your head against a brick wall! :lol:

 

[Redmonton_Rebel]

Which is probably the case and if so you are beating your head against a brick wall! :lol:

Like I said, this isn''t a game for me, if some people are here to screw with other peoples heads then who cares what they think.

That ignore button is cool, no more Lone Wolf.

 

[lone wolf]

Like I said, this isn''t a game for me, if some people are here to screw with other peoples heads then who cares what they think.

That ignore button is cool, no more Lone Wolf.

...watch out for loose floors under your carpet....

 

[CDNBear]

I don't know what you're talking about...

You've made that perfectly clear with all your lies and false silly claims.

The oil sands are on a scale and have an impact that hasn't been seen before in one project in history, whatever the **** you're talking about is about as pointless as tits on a bull as far as I'm concerned.

We are already well aware of your aversion to facts.

That ignore button is cool, no more Lone Wolf.

Ahhh yes, the old "I can't actually refute the evidence that pokes huge holes in my silly claims, so I'll just ignore you now" gambit.

Good call, Lone Wolf would have just shredded you and peed on your remains anyways.

 

[JLM]

Like I said, this isn''t a game for me, if some people are here to screw with other peoples heads then who cares what they think.

That ignore button is cool, no more Lone Wolf.

Very astute of you.............................gotta get rid of any logical thinking. :lol:

 

[Redmonton_Rebel]

This has been such an idiotic discussion.

The only relevant "sub-text" in comparing the oil sands to the Pyramids is the fact they were intended as the worlds largest TOMBS.

 

[lone wolf]

...and erected without Euclids....

 

[Redmonton_Rebel]

You've made that perfectly clear with all your lies and false silly claims.

We are already well aware of your aversion to facts.

Ahhh yes, the old "I can't actually refute the evidence that pokes huge holes in my silly claims, so I'll just ignore you now" gambit.

Good call, Lone Wolf would have just shredded you and peed on your remains anyways.

What lies and false claims?

The only thing I see is a bunch of pussies who will do anything to avoid dealing with the reality around one of the most polluting activities currently going on on the planet. If you to want to believe it's the petroleum industries version of Disneyland where dreams can really come true, then go ahead, but it's just as manufactured. Meanwhile the rest of us will be concerned with the thousands of tons of toxic waste being produced yearly by sythetic oil production in the Athabaska as well as the massive amounts of CO2. It's already the largest single source of greenhouse gas emmissions in Canada and will only grow as production climbs in coming decades. There's a reason the Conservative government is one of the worst in the world for addressing climate change concerns, and guess who's going to get the bill as per usual.

We're already turning over a lot of our political control to foreign powers who will demand even more as they become dependent on Canadian synthetic crude. Our federal government is already playing silly bastards with our system and that will also probably worsen over the coming years. I guess if your goal is to live in a polluted, petro-dictatorship undergoing significant climate change then by all means support the Conservative Party and uncontrolled oil sands development.

I'm starting to find all the big blue butt kissing here nauseating, what happened to genuine pride in freedom and truth in this country?

What's that LW, did you say something, I can't hear you.

 

[lone wolf]

I'd be thinking some of that Fukushima radiation and a puddle of debris floating on collision course with the North American continent could rank right up there.

 

[Redmonton_Rebel]

Is there a ghost in the machine?

 

[CDNBear]

This has been such an idiotic discussion.

That's only because you're here.

What lies and false claims?

That the oil sands is the largest engineering project in human history.

It isn't even the largest petroleum engineering project in human history.

I'm starting to find all the big blue butt kissing here nauseating...

What does proving you wrong have to do with big blue butt kissing?

... what happened to genuine pride in freedom and truth in this country?

Nothing, loosen the tinfoil hat.

What's that LW, did you say something, I can't hear you.

Speaking of pussies.

Is there a ghost in the machine?

Is that why your posts are so vaporous?

 

[lone wolf]

What's that LW, did you say something, I can't hear you.

Y'know, idiot, better people than you have been banned for such infantile behaviour. If I'm ON IGNORE, then do it, jerk. No skin off my arse.

 

[Cabbagesandking]

The oil sands may not be the largest project in history, though it is going to be pretty close if this government has its way. It is, though, being described around the world as the most destructive project in history. Its CO2 impact cannot be downplayed. It is now responsible for about 7% of Canada;s emissions. Within not much more than a decade, it is slated to increase to the cause of about 26%.

It is the sole reason for Canada pulling out of Kyoto. There is not the proverbial snowball's chance of Canada meeting even the very modest pretended goal of this government.

 

[Goober]

The oil sands may not be the largest project in history, though it is going to be pretty close if this government has its way. It is, though, being described around the world as the most destructive project in history. Its CO2 impact cannot be downplayed. It is now responsible for about 7% of Canada;s emissions. Within not much more than a decade, it is slated to increase to the cause of about 26%.

It is the sole reason for Canada pulling out of Kyoto. There is not the proverbial snowball's chance of Canada meeting even the very modest pretended goal of this government.

The reason Canada pulled out was the liberals did nothing - then the minority govts did nothing - then if we stayed Canada would have been faced with billions of dollars in penalties.

Canada pulls out of Kyoto pact to avoid penalty - Times Of India
NEW DELHI: Canada withdrew from the Kyoto Protocol to avoid the $13.6-billion penalty it would have had to pay for failing to meet the emission reduction target that has been set for next year.

Kyoto Accord: Canada formally withdrawing from climate change protocol | News | National Post

Kent blamed the former Liberal government for being “incompetent” by signing the accord and failing to meet its targets. As a result, he said, the current Conservative government, which took office in 2006, now faces “radical and irresponsible” choices if it is to avoid the $14 billion in international penalties he said it must pay for failing to meet those targets as a signatory to the accord.

Kent said that in order to comply with Kyoto, dramatic action would need to be taken to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

“To meet the target under 2012 would be the equivalent of either removing every car, truck, ATV, tractor, ambulance, police car and vehicle of every kind from Canadian roads, or closing down the entire farming and agricultural sector and cutting heat to every home, office, hospital, factory and building in Canada.”

Canada pulls out of Kyoto Protocol - Politics - CBC News

Canada is formally withdrawing from the Kyoto accord, Environment Minister Peter Kent said Monday.

The decision to do so will save the government an estimated $14 billion in penalties, Kent said. The Conservative government says it has no choice given the economic situation.