Canadian Catholic Church

[m_levesque]

Agreed. Yet one has to wonder - other segments of the population that perpetrate abuse of their authortity don't all have the same restrictions placed upon them. No doubt it compounds the problem though.

There are, however, married priests in the Church in some of the Rites. Do you think marriage would make them less likely to sin? Is sinning something only celibate people do?

 

[AndyF]

Be my guest. THIS is one subject I KNOW about.........Me and my friends LIVED it and in my opinion and Priest that molests a child should be prosectuted to the full extent of whatever law AND the Vatican should be also for allowing, and covering for THEIR employees. Simple. An eye for an eye.

The eye for an eye rule is no longer in force and hasn't been for 2000 years.

It is good we have a knowledgable person in yourself to show us all the facts on this problem.

Your tact gives me the impression you are targeting and that was the main reason for the thread. In my opinion this is the wrong tact when trying to portray the broad spectrum of a problem. So I can only assume that your thread is personal and not a serious concern that could assist other parents who's children are exposed to professionals of these other fields I mention, especially since the stats show, if you would take the effort to research, that this problem occurs more frequently within those fields.

So I look forward to the second phase of your research that reveals the full extent of the knowledge in this area that you claim you possess. :sad3:

AndyF

 

[mapleleafgirl]

i doubt its most of the priests anyway. im not saying some dont, but you cant paint the whole room based on what a few are doing. for the most part i think the roman catholic church is doing good things for its people and around the world.

 

[tracy]

I think it's wishful thinking to say that Canada's Catholic Church didn't have the same problems as the American one. Abuse stories are just as rampant in Canada. Personally, I wouldn't blame the church if they had done something to stop abuse when they learned about it. It's the way they enabled predators to keep abusing children by covering up for them that makes me angry.

 

[selfactivated]

I think it's wishful thinking to say that Canada's Catholic Church didn't have the same problems as the American one. Abuse stories are just as rampant in Canada. Personally, I wouldn't blame the church if they had done something to stop abuse when they learned about it. It's the way they enabled predators to keep abusing children by covering up for them that makes me angry.

Tracy your my hero, In one paragraph youve got my point. These people KNOW about the abuse and ALLOW it to go on. Its a WORLD WIDE problem NOT just an American problem or Canadian problem. These Priest are sheltered by the Vatican and in my eyes the Vatican is just as guilty and deserves to be punished too.

 

[karrie]

I don't think it helps when RC priests aren't allowed to do things that humans are naturally inclined to do either.

So, you figure if you had to remain celibate for some reason, you'd magically turn into a pedophile? I've never followed that logic. If that was the cause, then cub scout leaders, teachers, group home workers.... etc etc etc... wouldn't abuse children, because they aren't required to be celibate.

What I DO think makes sense, is that men with those sorts of tendencies, may additionally be drawn to the priesthood in an attempt to keep themselves from following them. Screening processes need to factor that in to the decision process.

 

[karrie]

I think it's wishful thinking to say that Canada's Catholic Church didn't have the same problems as the American one. Abuse stories are just as rampant in Canada. Personally, I wouldn't blame the church if they had done something to stop abuse when they learned about it. It's the way they enabled predators to keep abusing children by covering up for them that makes me angry.

you're totally right that it would be wishful thinking to say there were no problems. Even to sit and talk to a priest here, you can chat for hours about the problems and issues within the church... things that need changing, things that need addressing. Abuse coverups are one of the big ones. The more it's talked about, the more it's brought out in the open, the better.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

So, you figure if you had to remain celibate for some reason, you'd magically turn into a pedophile? I've never followed that logic.

That wasn't Gilbert's logic. I read it to mean only that mandatory celibacy is an additional stress in the lives of Catholic priests, it's not a natural state that comes easily to any normal healthy person, and that stress might lead some of them to do things they wouldn't otherwise do. In no sense did he suggest celibacy turns people into paedophiles, or that not being celibate prevents paedophilia. I strongly doubt they're linked at all in any statistically significant sense, and I'd bet heavily that Gilbert does too.

What I DO think makes sense, is that men with those sorts of tendencies, may additionally be drawn to the priesthood in an attempt to keep themselves from following them.

Perhaps, but given all the other things being a Catholic priest demands of a man, it must be pretty far down the list of motives. I've no doubt that men with paedophilic tendencies will be drawn to activities that put them into positions of influence and authority over children, like coaching sports teams, leading scout troops, teaching primary school grades, and so on, but again, given that there are so many other easier things to do, becoming a priest is likely to be pretty far down the list.

And please let's remember too that by far the overwhelming majority of Catholic priests are good and conscientious men like our friend sanctus here, and the number of paedophiles among them is tiny. In fact I'd be interested to know if the incidence of paedophilia among Catholic priests is higher or lower than it is among the male population generally. I'd bet it's lower, though I've never seen any data on that. It's just that because of the very special status that priests and the Catholic church have, and their claims to moral authority and integrity and honesty, these offenses by Catholic priests and the coverups some parts of the church bureaucracy engaged in are particularly horrible. And thus newsworthy.

 

[karrie]

That wasn't Gilbert's logic. I read it to mean only that mandatory celibacy is an additional stress in the lives of Catholic priests, it's not a natural state that comes easily to any normal healthy person, and that stress might lead some of them to do things they wouldn't otherwise do. In no sense did he suggest celibacy turns people into paedophiles, or that not being celibate prevents paedophilia. I strongly doubt they're linked at all in any statistically significant sense, and I'd bet heavily that Gilbert does too.

Perhaps, but given all the other things being a Catholic priest demands of a man, it must be pretty far down the list of motives. I've no doubt that men with paedophilic tendencies will be drawn to activities that put them into positions of influence and authority over children, like coaching sports teams, leading scout troops, teaching primary school grades, and so on, but again, given that there are so many other easier things to do, becoming a priest is likely to be pretty far down the list.

And please let's remember too that by far the overwhelming majority of Catholic priests are good and conscientious men like our friend sanctus here, and the number of paedophiles among them is tiny. In fact I'd be interested to know if the incidence of paedophilia among Catholic priests is higher or lower than it is among the male population generally. I'd bet it's lower, though I've never seen any data on that. It's just that because of the very special status that priests and the Catholic church have, and their claims to moral authority and integrity and honesty, these offenses by Catholic priests and the coverups some parts of the church bureaucracy engaged in are particularly horrible. And thus newsworthy.

paragraph 1..... yes, I was taking dramatic license with what Gilbert had said, but regardless, I still fail to see how an added stress of celibacy makes men turn to children. If a man is sexually frustrated, one would think he would more readily turn to satisfying that with the women of his congregation, rather than focusing it on children who have none of the traits attributed to sexuality yet. But, I'm just starting out in my psych career... perhaps it will be made clear to me at some point why this possible link exists, be it in reality or just in peoples' minds. Personally, I like the fact that the church is now training deacons to fill many of the roles a priest does. Pedophilia aside, I think a healthy sex life is a good thing, and many good, upstanding men are kept from serving in the church because of love.

paragraph 3.... I couldn't agree more.

 

[Tonington]

I think for those priests who do engage in paedophilia, as far as choosing a woman from the congregation or alter servers, it's more easy for the priest to control the situation with a young boy/girl. An older woman would I think be more apt to blow the whistle.

 

[selfactivated]

[SIZE=+1]T[/SIZE]he National Review Board for the Protection of Children and Young People established by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops has not had an easy time of determining the extent of the sexual abuse of minors within the American Roman Catholic Church. Not surprisingly, there has been considerable internal opposition. This resistance was so bad that long before its work was finished, its chairman, Frank Keating, was forced to resign after he compared the Church's actions to the Cosa Nostra, which rather proved his point. Certainly the fact that the report was reluctantly commissioned by the bishops who have been responsible for the crisis does not reflect well on its credibility. Nor does the fact that they only reason they ever did so was due to the constant and unrelenting pressure since the early 1990s by victims and advocacy groups, and later, the news media — not to mention the drain on their treasuries from huge settlements and dwindling contributions.
Many dioceses with much to hide did not want to co-operate. The results are still missing from some, and the rest are spinning their denials and minimalizations as fast at their highly paid PR firms can turn.
The focus was criticized as too narrow, being concerned solely with child sexual abuse. Other situations where clerics have sexually acted out with adult women and men, nuns and seminarians, have not been looked at; nor the effect on any offspring they may have sired in the process. For that matter, the personal cost to victims and their families remains uncounted. How many lives destroyed through alcohol, drugs, unsafe sex or violence have there been? How much abuse has been repeated by its victims? How many suicides and ruined families? How can the total cost ever be calculated?
There has been much complaining by victims, also, that only a handful were asked to testify, that there was too little time and too many restrictions. Many, too, point out that not all victims have yet come forward by any means. Indeed, even if there are no new cases, just the repressed memories alone of the still-unrecognized victims will guarantee that these numbers will only increase over the next twenty years.
And nothing has been said about multiple abusers and rings who swapped victims around like trading cards...
Nonetheless, A Report on the Crisis in the Catholic Church in the United States has generated a fog of figures, which cannot obscure the extent of this massive failure of institutional religion. It is indeed a crisis. Though this is a step forward, it is not the solution by any means, but a half-hearted admission that there is a problem.
Here are a few of the highlights.
​

• <LI type=disc>US clerics accused of abuse from 1950-2002: 4,392.
  About 4% of the 109,694 serving during those 52 years. <LI type=disc>Individuals making accusations: 10,667. <LI type=disc>Victims' ages: 5.8% under 7; 16% ages 8-10; 50.9% ages 11-14; 27.3% ages 15-17. <LI type=disc>Victims' gender: 81% male, 19% female <LI type=disc>Duration of abuse: Among victims, 38.4% said all incidents occurred within one year; 21.8% said one to two years; 28%, two to four years; 11.8% longer. <LI type=disc>Victims per priest: 55.7% with one victim; 26.9% with two or three; 13.9% with four to nine; 3.5% with 10 or more (these 149 priests caused 27% of allegations). <LI type=disc>Abuse locations: 40.9% at priest's residence; 16.3% in church; 42.8% elsewhere.
  [*]Known cost to dioceses and religious orders: $572,507,094 (does not include the $85 million Boston settlement and other expenses after research was concluded). (Hartford Courant, 2/27/04)​

It should be noted that 30% of all accusations were not investigated as they were deemed unsubstantiated or because the accused priest is dead.
Unfortunately, however, these initial numbers are likely to be the only official accounting ever done by the Roman Catholic Church. As soon as the report was published, the UCCB acted swiftly to cut the National Review Board's feet out from under it. For this was to be the preliminary report; the audits were to be completed and a larger report issued. Furthermore, the Board had planned further follow-up reports to follow the implementation of their proposals.
That will not happen now. And so the Church has lost its last, best chance of ever coming clean.
In any case, these figures are widely suspected to be grossly underestimated. For example, the late Fr. Tom Economus, former President of the Linkup, a national survivors' advocacy group, said back in the mid-90s that he knew of "1,400 insurance claims on the books and that the Church has paid out over $1 billion in liability with an estimated $500 million pending." (Emphasis added.)
He also said that over 800 priests had been removed from ministry and that there might be as many as 5,000 with allegations against them, which is not that far off. He often claimed that by far the most calls he received from all victims of any kind of clergy abuse were those from males who suffered abuse in their youth in the Catholic Church. Certainly these figures, which show that the highest number of victims were 12 year old boys and that 80% of the abuse was homosexual in nature, validate that anecodotal evidence, too.
Also, Fr. Tom Doyle, a canon lawyer with more experience than any in these cases, has raised many questions over the validity and methodology of the study. He has said that he thought many cases were still hidden, pointing out the low numbers for the 1950s.
'"It's not over with," Doyle said. "The heart of the matter is: Why was there this massive betrayal? Why did they move [abusers] around for years, when they knew what they were doing? Why have they continued to re-victimize the victims by stonewalling, and why they have never turned in any of these known pedophiles?"'(Hartford Courant, 2/26/04)
​

Additional Information from other sources

• Four in 10 US Catholic nuns report having experienced sexual abuse, (a rate equivalent to that reported by American women in general), a study by Catholic researchers supported by major religious orders, has found. The study found that sisters have known sexual abuse less in childhood, dispelling what the authors call an "anti-Catholic" canard that girls fled to convents to escape sexual advances. During religious life, close to 30% of the nation's 85,000 nuns experienced "sexual trauma," ranging from rape to exploitation to harassment. A total of 40% reported a least one experience of that kind. NCR, 1/15/99 See The Nuns' Stories for details.
• The Wisconsin Psychological Association's survey found offenders distributed among the following professions: Psychiatrists 34%, Psychologists 19%, Social Workers 13%, Clergy 11%, Physicians 6%, Marriage Counselors 4%, and Others 14%.
• The Center for Domestic Violence found that 12.6% of clergy said they had sex with church members. 47% of clergy women were harassed by clergy colleagues.
• The Presbyterian Church stated that 10-23% of clergy have "inappropriate sexual behavior or contact" with clergy and employees.
• The United Methodist research (1990) showed 38.6% of Ministers had sexual contact with church members and that 77% of church workers experienced some type of sexual harassment.
• The United Church of Christ found that 48% of the women in the work place have been sexually harassed by male clergy.
• The Southern Baptists claim 14.1% of their clergy have sexually abused members.

http://www.theharrowing.com/stats.html

Im working on a better source.
​

 

[karrie]

I think for those priests who do engage in paedophilia, as far as choosing a woman from the congregation or alter servers, it's more easy for the priest to control the situation with a young boy/girl. An older woman would I think be more apt to blow the whistle.

Hmm, I'd think an affair with a woman would be more likely to stay quiet than the abuse of a child. But, you may be right. How sad to think.

 

[selfactivated]

Overview:

Sexual abuse of youths and children in the U.S. by Roman Catholic priests has been quietly discussed for decades. A series of books on the topic was published starting during the 1990s, and continuing today. But it was only in early 2002 that a moral panic surfaced, alleging widespread child and youth sexual abuse by priests. The little data that is available seems to indicate that the abusers represent a very small percentage of the total priesthood. Further, very few of those priests who do abuse are actually pedophiles, as the media often reports. Rather they are hebephiles -- adult priests with a homosexual or bisexual orientation, and who are also sexually attracted to post-pubertal males. Their victims are teenage males who are under the age of 18.
It is important to keep in mind that the vast majority of priests, with a heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual orientation, do not molest or sexually abuse young people.

What the media often says, compared with reality:

During the first few months of 2002, revelations of pedophilia, and hebephilia among some priests in the Roman Catholic church spread like wildfire across the U.S. The media gave the impression that:
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]-Most of the abusing priests were pedophiles -- molesting little children.[/FONT] -[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Actually, most of the criminal acts were by hebephiles -- engaging in sexual activity with post-pubertal, 13 to 17 year old young men.-[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]That many priests abuse children. -[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Actually, the vast majority of Roman Catholic clergy are either celibate, or married, or discretely engaged in sexual behavior with other adults. There is general agreement that only a few percentage of the clergy actually abuse children sexually. The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops released a national study in 2004-FEB which concluded that about 4% of all U.S. priests since 1950 have been accused of sexual abuse of children. However:[/FONT] -[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]There are probably many victims who have remained silent and not come forward to accuse their abuser(s). -[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]There are probably many adults who have come forward to accuse priests, who have false recovered memories of abuse that never happened. -[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]There may be some adults who knowingly falsely accuse innocent priests of abuse in order to collect compensation.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]An accurate estimate will probably never be known.[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]-A massive amount of abuse is now going on in the Roman Catholic church.[/FONT] -[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The data that appears in the media often reflects allegations of abuse which have accumulated over the past forty years. The number of cases involving allegations of recent abuse will be a small fraction of the total that is now being reported.-[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Priests abuse at a per-capita rate that is much greater than for the general population. -[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]This is probably true, even if for no other reason that all Roman Catholic priests are currently male, and adult males have a much higher abuse rate than females.-[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The percentage of Roman Catholic priests who abuse children and youths is much greater than for other Christian and non-Christian religious leaders (gurus, imams, ministers, pastors, priests, priestesses, rabbis, etc.). -[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]This may or may not be true. No reliable data exists. Even as media articles in the first few months of 2002 highlighted abuse by priests within the Catholic Church, a former Episcopal priest was convicted of molesting a 14-year-old boy, a Baptist pastor from South Carolina was starting a 60 year prison center for molesting 23 children, another Baptist pastor was dismissed from his church in upstate New York over allegations of abuse, a pastor in DeKalb, GA, was found guilty of 25 charges of molestation of a male teen-aged church member, and an Orthodox rabbi was about to go on trial for groping two teenage girls.[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]

[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]What percentage of Roman Catholic priests abuse young people?[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Nobody really knows. [/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Nobody even knows how many adults in general sexually abuse youth and adults. A figure of 2% is often mentioned. However this is really just a guess. [/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]-Frederick S. Berlin is the director of the National Institute for the Study, Prevention and Treatment of Sexual Trauma, and a widely published author on sexual disorders. He stated in an interview: "There is no good data either from the general population or from the priesthood about numbers of pedophiles or people who have a vulnerability that increases their risk to children. The issue of sexuality, particularly of people who may have unusual kinds of sexual cravings, has been one that society has tended to sweep under the carpet. Getting that data is terribly important, but as of now I know of no systematic surveys that would allow us to come to any firm conclusions." 1-[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The Rev. Thomas Doyle, a priest and canonical lawyer said that "The bishops have resisted attempts to do studies on this, and the Vatican is death on any empirical, scientific study on the celibacy or sexuality of the priesthood." 2-[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The Rev. Stephen Rossetti, is a priest and psychologist who has specialized in this area. He has suggested that the records of church counseling centers would contain a great deal of information that would help shine light on abuse by priests. Centers such as St. Luke's Institute in Silver Spring MD; St. Michael's Paraclete Center outside St. Louis, MO; St. John Vianney Center in Downingtown, PA.; the Institute of Living in Hartford, CT; and Southdown Hospital near Toronto, ON Canada treat hundreds of priests for various psychological problems. However, the church has refused to conduct such a study. 14-[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Rev. James J. Gill is a Jesuit priest and psychiatrist who heads the Christian Institute for the Study of Human Sexuality in Chicago, IL. He said: "When the question comes up, should we do a study of priests and how many offenders have there been, what was the nature of the offense, what was their training, who were the victims, what treatment did the offenders get, what was the rate of recidivism -- it's all researchable, but the bishops fear you keep the issue alive by doing the research. They fear that the press will get hold of it and come to them and say, 'How many were there in your diocese?' They just don't want to get into that." A complicating factor is that each diocese operates independently of the rest of the Church in the U.S., and reports directly to the Vatican. 14[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Some estimates on the percent of abusers:[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Philip Jenkins, is a professor of history and religious studies at Penn State University, and has written a book on the topic. 3 He estimates that 2% of priests sexually abuse youth and children. 4[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Richard Sipe is a psychotherapist and former priest, who has studied celibacy and sexuality in the priesthood for four decades. He has authored three books on the topic. 5 By extrapolating from his 25 years of interviews of 1,500 priests and others, he estimates that 6% of priests abuse. Of these, 4% abuse teens, aged 13 to 17; 2% abuse pre-pubertal children. 4[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Sylvia M. Demarest, a lawyer from Texas has been tracking accusations against priests since the the mid-1990s. By 1996, she had identified 1,100 priests who had been accused of molesting children. She predicts that when she updates the list, the total will exceed 1,500 names. This represents about 2.5% of the approximately 60,000 men who have been active priests in the U.S. since 1984. It is important to realize that these are accused priests; the allegations have not been evaluated in a trial. Also, there is no way to judge what proportion of abusive priests are on her list. It may include 40% or fewer; she may have found 90% or more.[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Columnist Ann Coulter claimed, without citing references, that there are only 55 "exposed abusers" in a population of 45,000 priests. This is an abuse rate of 0.12%. 6 [/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Various news services reported that 200 Roman Catholic priests in the Philippines have been investigated for "sexual misconduct and abuses" over the past two decades. That would represent almost 3% of the total population of about 7,000 priests. However, it appears that misconduct includes many offenses, from child abuse to rape to keeping adult mistresses. 15[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]A survey of child and youth sexual abuse within the church issued in 2004-FEB estimates that four percent of the 110,000 priests who served between 1950 and 2002 were abusive. More details.[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]It is important to keep one's eye on the forest and not on the trees. Even if, as one researcher estimates, six percent of priests sexually abuse youth or children, then that still leaves an average of almost 19 priests out of every 20 who are non-abusive.[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]http://www.religioustolerance.org/clergy_sex8.htm[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]This source says 2% is a low ball figure due to the fact that its victims are silent. In other words 2% is only what is known[/FONT]

 

[selfactivated]

http://www.jimhopper.com/abstats/

This is an official stats report on child abuse not pedoplilia specifically. I cant read anymore my stomichs sick

 

[vinod1975]

Sexual Abuse

If you talk about sexual abuse , its every where and to the limit of this google " Nithari Kand" , and you will come to know what actualy is the limit , there two men are involved in first Raping -> Kiling -> eating there flesh and then duming the skeleton in sewer darains.:angry6:

 

[Dexter Sinister]

paragraph 1..... yes, I was taking dramatic license with what Gilbert had said, but regardless, I still fail to see how an added stress of celibacy makes men turn to children.

Point taken, but I suspect you're thinking in terms of extremes, not the vast grey area in the middle. Many men may have minor paedophilic tendencies that they'll never act out if they're sexually content in other ways, but deny them that and they may go over the edge. Again, I freely confess I have no data on this, only my own experiences. I vividly remember, for instance, when I first noticed the budding sexuality of my friends' daughters at 13 and 14 years old. I've been happily and contentedly married for... well, for as long as I can remember, frankly, but there was no denying their powerful attraction, and if I'd been in enforced celibacy and found myself alone in my office with one of them, I have no idea what I might have tried. I hope I wouldn't have tried anything, and I don't believe I would have tried anything, but I've never been tested that way, so I don't know and almost certainly never will.

 

[vinod1975]

Child Abuse

Nithari Kand has reported more then 40 childern cases of raping - kinlling- and .....:angry6:

 

[karrie]

Point taken, but I suspect you're thinking in terms of extremes, not the vast grey area in the middle. Many men may have minor paedophilic tendencies that they'll never act out if they're sexually content in other ways, but deny them that and they may go over the edge. Again, I freely confess I have no data on this, only my own experiences. I vividly remember, for instance, when I first noticed the budding sexuality of my friends' daughters at 13 and 14 years old. I've been happily and contentedly married for... well, for as long as I can remember, frankly, but there was no denying their powerful attraction, and if I'd been in enforced celibacy and found myself alone in my office with one of them, I have no idea what I might have tried. I hope I wouldn't have tried anything, and I don't believe I would have tried anything, but I've never been tested that way, so I don't know and almost certainly never will.

That's a very honest point of view on the issue, and yes, an aspect to it I had not given full thought to. But, abusing a budding girl tends to not be the issue that hits the news and seems so widespread in the church. It's young boys which seem to be the predominant victims. But then, that's just what hits the news, and I don't hold out a lot of faith to getting a fair view from any news. I have to say, thanks so much for discussing your thoughts on the subject.

 

[selfactivated]

Nithari Kand has reported more then 40 childern cases of raping - kinlling- and .....:angry6:

Child abuse ANYWHERE is wrong! Anyone that abides it is just as wrong. To cover up for abusers should be punished just as severely as the abusers themselves.

 

[vinod1975]

They should be...

Theese people should not be treated like humans but ....... how can they eat child flesh.....:angry6: