Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

[AnnaG]

Makes sense to me. Some like to overwork the function of "science" in this debate. I prefer common sense to science. :smile:

Common sense told people that the world was flat, too. Science proved otherwise.

 

[AnnaG]

I hear you man.

How about we meet half way on a case by case basis and send all abortion patients to undergo first a mental competency test, then send them to court with judge and jury and let the people decide whether it justifys for each individual case, instead of just opening up free abortion rights to anyone.

Would this not satisfy everyone?

Nope. Some people think their business is their business and no-one else's.

Perhaps all men should go through circumcision and the same procedures - mental competency, courts, etc.

 

[theconqueror]

Comparing abortion to birth control are we?

 

[AnnaG]

No worries.

For me, there's "Human" everything. Human sperm, egg, toe, liver, heart, eye, hair..... but when it comes down to rights under the law, it should be one "Human" which is "Human Being"

I agree with Section 233 as you stated it. Be it legally or spiritually, I don't believe one gains consciousness until they begin to breath on their own and separated from it's host..... perhaps when the soul enters the body if one wishes to look at it that way.

Like I posted before and I guess you missed:

Brain-Mind.com - environment, Neuroplasticty, neuroscience, child, development, memory, emotion, paranormal, health

The emergence of human consciousness: from fetal t... [Pediatr Res. 2009] - PubMed result

And regardless of arguments of coma patients and such, they already took their breaths, started their lives, proof something existed in that brain of theirs at one time, thus warrants various forms of protection.

But that's just how I see it, nor do I expect others to adopt my point of view.

Just adding info, as you said

 

[AnnaG]

Wow... Archie Bunker.... now there's someone you want to take quotes and advice from :lol:

I also quote Bugs Bunny. Does the author of the quote have a bearing on whether they are accurate or not? Advice? Who said anything about advice?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I assume you meant exception not acception (whatever that might mean).
Teen pregnancies used to be the norm prior to the 20th century. Do you really mean unmarried teen pregnancies?
And what teens are you taking about - girls of 13 or women of 19?
You are right it is hard to go against abortion. It is the only 100% certain form of birth control.

You make a very god point. Teens have always been having sex, from times immemorial. The only difference is that in the old days teens used to get married and then have sex.

These days very few teens get married. But that is no reason to assume that they will stop having sex. Teens will have sex, that is the reality of life, always has been and always will be. Rather than stern Patriarchs lecturing teens about not having sex, it is much better if they are made aware of information about contraception and about abortion (should one become necessary).

 

[AnnaG]

That's nature for you.

No matter someone's morals and beliefs that the human species is some omnipotent being, we are animals a part of the same nature that surrounds us, which kills, eats and destroys other living creatures with various degrees of necessity.

Plants, animals, sea creatures, insects, viruses, clowns..... they're all killed by one thing or another, regardless of your respect for life. Sometimes things are killed because they crossed into someone/thing's territory, are a pest, for food, in self defense, just because.... take your pick, there's plenty to choose from.

I believe self preservation is also one of them, and if one "life" so to speak, was to threaten the other's, they they have every right to protect themselves.

And those reasons, be it health, financial, physical or mental self preservation, is subjective to the life in question and is up for them to decide.

And when it comes to the fetus and it's "Decision" it doesn't have one, because there is absolutely no way whatsoever to ask and expect any legit response.

They recoil from pain stimuli. But I guess that isn't legit? It's just coincidence they do that? lol

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I'm just curious where are all the fathers in this matter?

Fathers have no say when it comes to abortion. If the woman wants to involve the father, fine. But she doesn't have to.

It is very easy for the father to walk away from the baby whenever he likes. So even if he makes promises to help pay for baby's upbringing, such promises mean very little. That is why father doesn't have any say when it comes to abortion.

 

[AnnaG]

Of all of the people here with opinions on the matter, I wonder how many have ever been in the position to make such a decision.

Whether to have an abortion or not? Me.

 

[CDNBear]

It is very easy for the father to walk away from the baby whenever he likes. So even if he makes promises to help pay for baby's upbringing, such promises mean very little. That is why father doesn't have any say when it comes to abortion.

You are obviously oblivious of Canadian family law...:lol:

 

[theconqueror]

Nope. Some people think their business is their business and no-one else's.

Perhaps all men should go through circumcision and the same procedures - mental competency, courts, etc.

If the law states that you can kill 1 person in your lifetime legally, you seem like the type that would jump on the opportunity in a heartbeat.

My point to you is that just because it is legal, does not mean it is right.

Abortion is not a liscense to kill, and the law does not constitute your guaranteed freedom of way untill outlawed.

 

[AnnaG]

Comparing abortion to birth control are we?

Some people use abortion as a birth control method. They are connected, you know.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Makes sense to me. Some like to overwork the function of "science" in this debate. I prefer common sense to science. :smile:

By commonsense, you mean your common sense, don’t you? What if somebody else’s common sense is different from yours? Do you want to impose your common sense upon everybody, by law maybe?

I prefer science to common sense. Science makes its conclusions based upon objective, scientific data. Common sense varies from person to person.

 

[AnnaG]

If the law states that you can kill 1 person in your lifetime legally, you seem like the type that would jump on the opportunity in a heartbeat.

Looks are deceiving at times.

My point to you is that just because it is legal, does not mean it is right.

So? I had that figured out in my childhood.

Abortion is not a liscense to kill, and the law does not constitute your guaranteed freedom of way untill outlawed.

I don't understand this comment. English might help.

 

[AnnaG]

By commonsense, you mean your common sense, don’t you? What if somebody else’s common sense is different from yours? Do you want to impose your common sense upon everybody, by law maybe?

I prefer science to common sense. Science makes its conclusions based upon objective, scientific data. Common sense varies from person to person.

And yet you continue to flaunt your ignorance of science. roflmao.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I hear you man.

How about we meet half way on a case by case basis and send all abortion patients to undergo first a mental competency test, then send them to court with judge and jury and let the people decide whether it justifys for each individual case, instead of just opening up free abortion rights to anyone.

Would this not satisfy everyone?

No it would not. That sounds suspiciously like the legislation Mulroney put forth after the abortion law of Canada was struck down by the Supreme Court.

There was plenty of opposition to the legislation. While it passed in the Commons it was defeated in the senate, by one vote. Conservative senator, Pat Carnie broke her trip halfway and traveled to Ottawa to cast a vote against it (for which she was disciplined by Mulroney later on).

But that will satisfy everybody, are you kidding? No way.

 

[CDNBear]

By commonsense, you mean your common sense, don’t you? What if somebody else’s common sense is different from yours? Do you want to impose your common sense upon everybody, by law maybe?

Why not? That's what you want to do.

I prefer science to common sense. Science makes its conclusions based upon objective, scientific data.

I already provided you with a wiki quote, where the scientific community states cells are life.

Common sense varies from person to person.

And is oft absent altogether, evidenced by your posts.

 

[lone wolf]

By commonsense, you mean your common sense, don’t you? What if somebody else’s common sense is different from yours? Do you want to impose your common sense upon everybody, by law maybe?

I prefer science to common sense. Science makes its conclusions based upon objective, scientific data. Common sense varies from person to person.

Do ride the short bus to school?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

No worries.

For me, there's "Human" everything. Human sperm, egg, toe, liver, heart, eye, hair..... but when it comes down to rights under the law, it should be one "Human" which is "Human Being"

I agree with Section 233 as you stated it. Be it legally or spiritually, I don't believe one gains consciousness until they begin to breath on their own and separated from it's host..... perhaps when the soul enters the body if one wishes to look at it that way.

And regardless of arguments of coma patients and such, they already took their breaths, started their lives, proof something existed in that brain of theirs at one time, thus warrants various forms of protection.

But that's just how I see it, nor do I expect others to adopt my point of view.

Just adding info, as you said

I myself draw the line at fetal viability. If fetus can survive outside the womb, then in my opinion there should not be an abortion, except if there is serious threat to the health or the life of mother. I think it would put it at around 28 seeks.

But that is purely an arbitrary line, as arbitrary as claiming that life begins at conception.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Wow... Archie Bunker.... now there's someone you want to take quotes and advice from :lol:

Oh, Archie Bunker was an ideal and an idol of conservatives. You may be surprised, but many conservatives think highly of Archie Bunker. In their opinion, he always used to come out ahead in his arguments with the Atheist Mike.

I remember once on television a reporter asked a Fundamentalist preacher if Archie Bunker was a good Christian. He replied

“Of course he was a good Christian. Could he have been a better Christian? Certainly, we all could be better Christians.”

So Archie is regarded highly among conservative circles.