BushCo crimes - lets do the world a favour

[bluealberta]

Hmmm, I wonder if all the Iraqis who were terrorized by Saddam and his family, or at least their survivors, would want to arrest Bush. Or the women of Iraq who can now enjoy a better life. Or all those with purple fingers who braved attacks BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE to vote in at least two elections. Or the police of Iraq who do a job knowing that Iraqi terrorists funded by other terrorist countries will try to kill them.

Maybe we should ask all of them, before anyone without any interest at all makes ill founded and ridiculous statements about arresting anyone.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Hmmm, I wonder if all the Iraqis who were terrorized by Saddam and his family, or at least their survivors, would want to arrest Bush. Or the women of Iraq who can now enjoy a better life. Or all those with purple fingers who braved attacks BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE to vote in at least two elections. Or the police of Iraq who do a job knowing that Iraqi terrorists funded by other terrorist countries will try to kill them.

Maybe we should ask all of them, before anyone without any interest at all makes ill founded and ridiculous statements about arresting anyone.

please be kind enough to DESCRIBE this "better " life that the Iraqis are living now.........and have for the past three yrs. I guess living in a country where terrorist blow up bombs at random is certainly a better life. I guess, living in a nation where all the infrastructure has been destroyed by FOREIGN BOMBS is a great life too. Being surrounded by ruins of a culture that was rich in history is a great way to remember history. ain't it??

dealing with the maimed ,injured and now handicapped for life is another "benefit" of this new society.

How pathetic to see how some have stopped THINKING and just buy into the bush cabal propaganda ......and shagging LIES.

If life is so great in Iraq.........don't see the fat cats of Alberta moving there in droves now do we?? After all Alberta and Iraqi have a common denominator. OIL.

but "believe" what one wishes. Some of us simply prefer dealing with the truths and reality. :roll:

those poor Iraqis live under a new breed of terrorism.......one with a war machine.........the other basic terrorism 101. Not much has really changed. Just a lot of spin , smoke and mirrors.....on the USR part while they control. influence the oil resources and build more massive military bases in the ME. After all.........they are entitled to some rewareds for spending megabucks in destroying the nation. (sarcasm intended)

 

[jimmoyer]

Ocean Breeze and blueAlberta ?

Isn't it obvious that both of you are right ?

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: RE: BushCo crimes - lets do the world a favour

Ocean Breeze and blueAlberta ?

Isn't it obvious that both of you are right ?

jimbo, no one is "right" about this mess and no one is absolutely "wrong". Those that defend this INVASION will see it from one position and those that did NOT and do NOT will see it differently.

Does not imply one cannot "appreciate" the other's position......

Until we hear more from the Iraqis themselves and how they feel about their "new and "improved" life..... we are only 'guessing" for the most part.. It is the Iraqis that matter in this equation. How "free" they will be will be evident by how free they are to criticize their invaders, occupiers. and (theives)

 

[I think not]

The Iraqis speak to the world everyday, unfortunately all of us listen to our bias because it serves our self-gratifying need to say "I told you so".

 

[jimmoyer]

There are many examples of our bias not listening
to all the various voices of the Iraqis.

Little do we see the Saddam trials because they
just don't get the ratings in the Western World,
but every Iraqi Kurd, Sunni and Shi-ite is watching
very intently.

Little do we realize one of the most popular shows
in Baghdad is Iraqi police interrogating a terrorist.

We do know that the Iraqis want us out of there,
but all of them disagree as to when, because they
fear the idiot bomb-vest clowns.

Little do we see of the small acts of heroism
by all Iraqis and we belittle that because they wouldn't
have to be so heroic if the US never came there.

We write off the bravery of Iraqis signing up to be
police the very day after 200 were killed in a police station
by saying they need the money.

Well sure they do, but you do what they do and you'll
find it is no small act of guts.

Heroism under any context should never be
de-valued.

We can note the irony, but where does heroism
exist without the irony ?

Point out one situation of it.

And I'll show you how heroism lives in a paradox.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

The Iraqis speak to the world everyday, unfortunately all of us listen to our bias because it serves our self-gratifying need to say "I told you so".

speak for yourself...ITN.


How is one to consider an orchestrated interview with an Iraqi on CNN as a valid opionion of the Iraqis??? The media will not interview or play any Iraqi that is discontent with the occupation... sheesh. Speaking of bias......seems media like CNN have that one taped and orchestrated. They present exactly what they think will 'play ' to the US public...........( who have long ago stopped thinking for themselves.. ) That is a generality. There are many USers who still do use their cerebral matter and reason things beyond what they have been spoon fed.

 

[bluealberta]

My points were simply to show that there is another side to this story, and I also agree that none of us knows the whole story, only the CNN version or Fox version, which are usually different.

The point about a better life is that women are now more than just posessions, able to actually show their faces in public without fear of death, and the citizens of Iraq have the right to vote, something we take very casually, something they appear to take very seriously, as evidenced by voting amid bombings BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE.

Do you not ever wonder who funds these terrorists who are blowing up cars, themselves, innocent kids and moms and dads? Maybe if more time was spent tracking down the source of their funds (Syria?) and putting an end to that, the real triumph of democracy in Iraq could be seen all the time.

As for Albertans, you show your ignorance, there are numerous Albertans in Iraq, oil and otherwise involved.

 

[Curiosity]

Ocean Breeze

You have done much work on this thread with articles written - I only went back to November, but I wanted to ask you where the links are for the articles?

Where did these authors publish their information?

Thank you.

 

[jimmoyer]

Regarding the issue of Women in the Middle East,
the issue is complex.

I've often seen the liberal left point out that
women had more rights under Saddam than today.

That appeared somewhat true in certain city blocks
of Bagdad, but turn the corner and the men forbade
the women many little freedoms during Saddam's day.

In fact the process of women's rights in the Middle
East is as slow as molasses.

And no dictator even had the power to change that
culture even by fiat.

 

[I think not]

The Iraqis speak to the world everyday, unfortunately all of us listen to our bias because it serves our self-gratifying need to say "I told you so".

speak for yourself...ITN.


How is one to consider an orchestrated interview with an Iraqi on CNN as a valid opionion of the Iraqis??? The media will not interview or play any Iraqi that is discontent with the occupation... sheesh. Speaking of bias......seems media like CNN have that one taped and orchestrated. They present exactly what they think will 'play ' to the US public...........( who have long ago stopped thinking for themselves.. ) That is a generality. There are many USers who still do use their cerebral matter and reason things beyond what they have been spoon fed.

If the fringe left posters on this board are indicative of unbias opinion, I'll stick to being "brainwashed" by CNN. And btw OB, a nice chunk of the Canadian population supported Bush in Iraq, which channels do they watch and get dumbed down?

 

[Curiosity]

My points were simply to show that there is another side to this story, and I also agree that none of us knows the whole story, only the CNN version or Fox version, which are usually different.

The point about a better life is that women are now more than just posessions, able to actually show their faces in public without fear of death, and the citizens of Iraq have the right to vote, something we take very casually, something they appear to take very seriously, as evidenced by voting amid bombings BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE.

Do you not ever wonder who funds these terrorists who are blowing up cars, themselves, innocent kids and moms and dads? Maybe if more time was spent tracking down the source of their funds (Syria?) and putting an end to that, the real triumph of democracy in Iraq could be seen all the time.

As for Albertans, you show your ignorance, there are numerous Albertans in Iraq, oil and otherwise involved.

bluealberta

I have found many credible (and later proven) incidents reported by the military blog network. I have learned to trust a couple of them, especially when they go off line for a couple of weeks and then return to post with permission from their superiors what they have accomplished.

Nobody is editing their blogs either. It is fascinating stuff. I would rather leave the politics out of it - no doubt the Pentagon isn't sharing everything anyway - they never do - especially with politicians! (Unless they want funding of course).

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Maybe if more time was spent tracking down the source of their funds (Syria?) and putting an end to that, the real triumph of democracy in Iraq could be seen all the time.

So, why don't they expend the energy in tracking the money trail to get better control of those that fund, perpetuate and foster terrorists???

So why hasn't the bush cabal located and captured OBL yet. OBL has a money trail......too. (maybe a different currency ).

oh that's right.........OBL ..Who???

Glamorizing the new Iraq as it is now is not painting the truthful picture. Cultural values take a long time to change. Learning to live in a democracy will take a long time too. and that is when they define what democracy means to them and how it translates into their every day lives.

One has no idea just how much "freedom" the women have in Iraq which is still a male dominated society. don't know how anyone can equate voting with a democratic society when so much of the gov't is under such intense security. As long as they live under the threat of US bombs, or terrorist bombs.......they do not live in a democracy. Most of the election propaganda has been for show anyhow. Something to be televised and used politically by the bush cabal. Most Iraqis feel the election was rigged.

so where is the truth in all this??

 

[Ocean Breeze]

The Iraqis speak to the world everyday, unfortunately all of us listen to our bias because it serves our self-gratifying need to say "I told you so".

speak for yourself...ITN.


How is one to consider an orchestrated interview with an Iraqi on CNN as a valid opionion of the Iraqis??? The media will not interview or play any Iraqi that is discontent with the occupation... sheesh. Speaking of bias......seems media like CNN have that one taped and orchestrated. They present exactly what they think will 'play ' to the US public...........( who have long ago stopped thinking for themselves.. ) That is a generality. There are many USers who still do use their cerebral matter and reason things beyond what they have been spoon fed.

If the fringe left posters on this board are indicative of unbias opinion, I'll stick to being "brainwashed" by CNN. And btw OB, a nice chunk of the Canadian population supported Bush in Iraq, which channels do they watch and get dumbed down?

a no brainer: they watch CNN.

What is with the branding of people into groups??? the fringe left, the left, the right , right wing fanatical SOB and on it goes. Sheesh. Putting people into little pigeon holes is exactly what an autocratic society does.......when it stops thinking and being creative. So much easier that way than to address people on an individual level. So much easier to feed one's own prejudice. No branding, no prejudice........and the US just has to have something to be prejudiced about.

Pathetic..

but each to his own...... as long as one understands there are no winners in crap like that.

 

[I think not]

One has no idea just how much "freedom" the women have in Iraq which is still a male dominated society. don't know how anyone can equate voting with a democratic society when so much of the gov't is under such intense security. As long as they live under the threat of US bombs, or terrorist bombs.......they do not live in a democracy. Most of the election propaganda has been for show anyhow. Something to be televised and used politically by the bush cabal. Most Iraqis feel the election was rigged.

so where is the truth in all this??

Oddly enough the UN has given its blessing with the Iraq elections, did you miss that post? :roll:

 

[Ocean Breeze]

One has no idea just how much "freedom" the women have in Iraq which is still a male dominated society. don't know how anyone can equate voting with a democratic society when so much of the gov't is under such intense security. As long as they live under the threat of US bombs, or terrorist bombs.......they do not live in a democracy. Most of the election propaganda has been for show anyhow. Something to be televised and used politically by the bush cabal. Most Iraqis feel the election was rigged.

so where is the truth in all this??

Oddly enough the UN has given its blessing with the Iraq elections, did you miss that post? :roll:

surprised that the name of the UN Is even invoked here as didn't the USR claim LOUD and FIERCE that the UN is irrelevant.??? 8O So null and void on that on. or is the UN ok.......as long as it does what the US approves of or blindly supports the US??? Doesn't seem all that fair now......does it.?? But then who said politics were "fair"???

 

[I think not]

a no brainer: they watch CNN.

What is with the branding of people into groups??? the fringe left, the left, the right , right wing fanatical SOB and on it goes. Sheesh. Putting people into little pigeon holes is exactly what an autocratic society does.......when it stops thinking and being creative. So much easier that way than to address people on an individual level. So much easier to feed one's own prejudice. No branding, no prejudice........and the US just has to have something to be prejudiced about.

Pathetic..

but each to his own...... as long as one understands there are no winners in crap like that.

You mean as opposed to when others call everybody just to the right of Karl Marx philosophies a neo-con? :roll:

 

[I think not]

surprised that the name of the UN Is even invoked here as didn't the UN claim LOUD and FIERCE that the UN is irrelevant.??? So null and void on that on. or is the UN ok.......as long as it does what the US approves of or blindly supports the US??? Doesn't seem all that fair now......does it.?? But then who said politics were "fair"???

How does this rant dismiss the UN's statement? It doesn't.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

surprised that the name of the UN Is even invoked here as didn't the UN claim LOUD and FIERCE that the UN is irrelevant.??? So null and void on that on. or is the UN ok.......as long as it does what the US approves of or blindly supports the US??? Doesn't seem all that fair now......does it.?? But then who said politics were "fair"???

How does this rant dismiss the UN's statement? It doesn't.

:roll: :roll: :banghead: :banghead:

 

[bluealberta]

surprised that the name of the UN Is even invoked here as didn't the UN claim LOUD and FIERCE that the UN is irrelevant.??? So null and void on that on. or is the UN ok.......as long as it does what the US approves of or blindly supports the US??? Doesn't seem all that fair now......does it.?? But then who said politics were "fair"???

How does this rant dismiss the UN's statement? It doesn't.

To put it back to you, OB, when the UN says something you don't like, is it then irrelvant to YOU?

At the end of the day, I for one, believe that Iraq is much better off now than it was with Saddam. You remember Saddam right? You know, they guy who killed babies if he or his henchmen saw a mom or dad even acknowlege the US troops when they first arrived? May be a simple statement, but sometimes the simpler, the better.

From what I hear, the Afghanis were pretty damn happy to have the US and allied troops in their country when the earthquake hit.