Bush says Amnesty report 'absurd'

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Bush says Amnesty rep

That reminds me of a Republican talking points memo I saw, Facts.

I can't remember the exact wording but it was something about changing the subject if the Bush regime was being criticized. If that didn't work, discrediting the speaker in the eyes of the audience was suggested.

 

[Just the Facts]

Re: RE: Bush says Amnesty rep

That reminds me of a Republican talking points memo I saw, Facts.

I see you studied it well. :wink:

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Bush says Amnesty rep

I like to be aware of what those who would destry this planet for financial gain are up to.

I was watching the Arar hearings on CPAC this morning for a while. They had a representative of HRW on, a very bright lawyer...well spoken and knowledgable. She was outlining the US practice of rendering suspected terrorists to other countries to be tortured. That is a war crime, there is no doubt about it.

 

[Just the Facts]

Re: RE: Bush says Amnesty rep

She was outlining the US practice of rendering suspected terrorists to other countries to be tortured. That is a war crime, there is no doubt about it.

Maybe so, I don't know enough to take a position.

Apparently CSIS and/or the RCMP had a lot to do with it as well.

Just curious, does anybody know if he still had/has a Syrian passport or citizenship?

 

[Ocean Breeze]

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0609-04.htm


Prisoners held illegally in Iraq is posing a problem.

Wondering what spin the US will come up to deal with this.....or will it even bother???

I may have been naive for many years........but I would never have dreamed the US to be doing what it is doing now. Talk about an awakening.(rude)

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Bush says Amnesty rep

She was outlining the US practice of rendering suspected terrorists to other countries to be tortured. That is a war crime, there is no doubt about it.

Maybe so, I don't know enough to take a position.

Apparently CSIS and/or the RCMP had a lot to do with it as well.

Just curious, does anybody know if he still had/has a Syrian passport or citizenship?

To say its a war crime means we are at war(And I'm not referring to Iraq), which war are we talking about? The war on terror?

I'm curious if you heard Rev who is the Canadian official that interviewed Arar? And what was her position on it?

He has dual citizenship, Syrian and Canadian.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Bush says Amnesty rep

Which Canadian official? Where? There are at least three who might have, or might not have. They all have consular positions. There might have been somebody from CSIS or the RCMP who interviewed him in the US too, but that isn't clear at all...yet.

It is against international law, according to agreements that both Canada and the US have signed, to send somebody to a country where there is a reasonable chance they will be tortured. It's part of the International Conventions Against Torture.

Arar had dual citizenship, but he was residing in Canada. The US nabbed him as he was changing flights on his way home. They had no real evidence against him. They say they were acting on information from CSIS and the RCMP, which may or may not be true. The RCMP and CSIS seem to have played some part though.

They offered him to Canada on the condition that he be held without charge or trial. We turned the US down because that is against our laws...apparently they didn't even have enough to issue a security certificate.

Now this is where our government falls down. Harper was screaming that we should have caught and deported Arar sooner, and that we should let the US deport him in the name of keeping trade flowing. There was, by all accounts, a lot of pressure from the US authorities, including Colin Powel. The Liberals, instead of demanding that a Canadian citizen be returned to Canada, let the US illegally deport Arar to a country where he was likely to be tortured.

Our government says they didn't know he'd be tortured. That's a load of crap, everybody knew he'd be tortured.

 

[Twila]

RE: Bush says Amnesty rep

Syria does not allow it's citizens to give up Syrian Citizenship.

Once a Syrian always a Syrian....

 

[EagleSmack]

Why would the US deport him to another country if we are, as we are told, already torturing our current detainees?

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Bush says Amnesty rep

The couldn't label him an enemy combatant and send him to Guantanamo because they had not captured him in battle.

 

[EagleSmack]

Re: RE: Bush says Amnesty rep

The couldn't label him an enemy combatant and send him to Guantanamo because they had not captured him in battle.

Ahhh... got you.

Thanks.

Where did they send him again?

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Bush says Amnesty rep

Which Canadian official? Where? There are at least three who might have, or might not have. They all have consular positions. There might have been somebody from CSIS or the RCMP who interviewed him in the US too, but that isn't clear at all...yet.

A consular in a foreign country is a Canadian official, right?

"On the seventh or eighth day they brought me a document, saying they had decided to deport me, and I had a choice of where to be deported. I wrote that I wanted to go to Canada. It asked if I had concerns about going to Canada. I wrote no, and signed it. The Canadian consul came on October 4, and I told her I was scared of being deported to Syria. She told me that would not happen. She told me that a lawyer was being arranged. I was very upset, and scared. I could barely talk."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/arar/arar_statement.html

It is against international law, according to agreements that both Canada and the US have signed, to send somebody to a country where there is a reasonable chance they will be tortured. It's part of the International Conventions Against Torture.

They found a loophole and sent him to Jordan instead, so they got out of that. Theoretically, they didn't break international conventions. Although we all know what was really going on

Arar had dual citizenship, but he was residing in Canada.

He should of been sent to Canada, no question. However, according to US law. If a passenger arrives and is a citizen from a country that is suspect of terrorism and they have reason to believe he is suspect, they will be returned to that country.

The US nabbed him as he was changing flights on his way home. They had no real evidence against him. They say they were acting on information from CSIS and the RCMP, which may or may not be true. The RCMP and CSIS seem to have played some part though.

Who knows. Nobody. Not yet.

They offered him to Canada on the condition that he be held without charge or trial. We turned the US down because that is against our laws...apparently they didn't even have enough to issue a security certificate.

You should have accepted him. There is something fishy going on, on both sides of the border.

Now this is where our government falls down. Harper was screaming that we should have caught and deported Arar sooner, and that we should let the US deport him in the name of keeping trade flowing. There was, by all accounts, a lot of pressure from the US authorities, including Colin Powel. The Liberals, instead of demanding that a Canadian citizen be returned to Canada, let the US illegally deport Arar to a country where he was likely to be tortured.

Our government says they didn't know he'd be tortured. That's a load of crap, everybody knew he'd be tortured.

Just one overall comment. Has anyone even considered the possibility this guy is blowing smoke up everyones asses for another purpose? I'm not disputing the events, perhaps the motives

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Rev: good post. agree, CA gov't mishandled that one . Don't care for Harper's motives , anyhow. But the libs could have done a more effective job.

ITN: agree, there is something fishy going on.

........and again.....it goes back to the "motives" behind all this.


seems one simply cannot take anything at face value. :?

 

[Reverend Blair]

A consular in a foreign country is a Canadian official, right?

Yes.

"On the seventh or eighth day they brought me a document, saying they had decided to deport me, and I had a choice of where to be deported. I wrote that I wanted to go to Canada. It asked if I had concerns about going to Canada. I wrote no, and signed it. The Canadian consul came on October 4, and I told her I was scared of being deported to Syria. She told me that would not happen. She told me that a lawyer was being arranged. I was very upset, and scared. I could barely talk."

Except that nobody knows who that was. Just like the consular official in Syria who apparently interviewed Arar without ever seeing him.

They found a loophole and sent him to Jordan instead, so they got out of that. Theoretically, they didn't break international conventions. Although we all know what was really going on

That's not a loophole. You cannot send him to a country that you suspect will transfer him somplace else to be tortured either. Everybody did know what was going on. They did break international conventions.

He should of been sent to Canada, no question. However, according to US law. If a passenger arrives and is a citizen from a country that is suspect of terrorism and they have reason to believe he is suspect, they will be returned to that country.

They blew that all to hell when they acknowledged that he was from Canada. US law is not applicable outside of the USA. They sent him outside of the USA.

Who knows. Nobody. Not yet.

No, but it is increasingly clear that the US broke international conventions and Canada stood idly by or assisted them.

You should have accepted him. There is something fishy going on, on both sides of the border.

That's why we are having an enquiry. Why aren't you?

Just one overall comment. Has anyone even considered the possibility this guy is blowing smoke up everyones asses for another purpose? I'm not disputing the events, perhaps the motives

Your government and mine have both been trying to prove that because not only does this expose what nutbags they are and make them look like dimwitted thugs, but Arar is going to sue their asses off and win.

Where did they send him again?

Syria via Jordan. Illegally.

 

[Twila]

RE: Bush says Amnesty rep

He should of been sent to Canada, no question. However, according to US law. If a passenger arrives and is a citizen from a country that is suspect of terrorism and they have reason to believe he is suspect, they will be returned to that country.

Why did they send him to Jordan then?

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Bush says Amnesty rep

Because they've been maintaining the myth that Jordan doesn't torture people. They do.

 

[Twila]

RE: Bush says Amnesty rep

But ITN said that the US has a law that states they can send a person back to their own country if that country is a terrorist harbouring country....except they sent him to Jordan.

He wasn't Jordanian.....so they flubbed they're own law.....?

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Bush says Amnesty rep

They don't even worry about laws, Twila. They are gangsters.

Here's something cool...not sure if I mentioned it here before or not. Who is being deported where is all secret...the US government hides behind the lie that it's a security risk. HRW has been tracking the flight plans of what have become known as "torture planes". These are the planes that the US uses for deportations...usually in the middle of the night.

They fly to some European cities (pick-ups usually) but where they go most is to Jordan, Egypt, and Uzbekistan. All states known to torture people. All client states of the USA. International and US extradition laws, as well as the laws of those unspecified European countries, are being broken on a daily basis.

All indications (and again everything is secret, so all anybody has is indications) are that the orders to render people to other countries for torture come from the White House.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

http://www.antiwar.com/reese/?articleid=6291


American Gulags.....(indeed) :twisted: :evil:

When one reads the first part of this article....something becomes clear. Bush handles criticism.....the same way many "Americans" do. They divert the attention by attacking the one criticizing.--be it a person, an agency or ??

interesting .....if pathological ....mindset.--- avoiding responsibility by diversional tactics...

 

[GL Schmitt]

“Extreme rendition” had been going on long before Bush set a single webbed foot inside the White House. (since 1998 to be precise.)

So, why would Maher Arar make up such a story? He was neither the first, nor the only person transferred by the US intelligence services to a sympathetic nation with a less civilized legal system.


Although it is nearly a year old, an entry in Bill Fisher’s blog entitled TORTURE UNDER THE RADAR is a good starting point for anyone who is still unfamiliar with “extreme rendition”