Bush says Amnesty report 'absurd'
- Thread starter Jo Canadian
- Start date
RE: Bush says Amnesty rep
from truthout:
What do they call the abuse at Gitmo? Prisoner Abuse in Iraq? Afghanistan? all violate Geneva Conventions. They are committing torture and I am glad amnesty is calling it what it is.
Cheney is as bad as "W" if not worse. He deserves to be tried alongside Bush as a war criminal.
and
What's this guy on?
from truthout:
What do they call the abuse at Gitmo? Prisoner Abuse in Iraq? Afghanistan? all violate Geneva Conventions. They are committing torture and I am glad amnesty is calling it what it is.
Cheney is as bad as "W" if not worse. He deserves to be tried alongside Bush as a war criminal.
and
What's this guy on?
Re: RE: Bush says Amnesty report 'absurd'
No, it's not. Amnesty deals exclusively with GOVERNMENTS that are abusing human rights, not individual acts. Abu Gharaib and Guantanamo Bay are accidents, confusions, and lack of training. The military is responsible for this. What it was compared to was a Russian torture/workcamp that was setup by the government and maintained by the government.
Countries like Syria and Rwanda make torture and inhumanity their official policy. Those are the guys that Amnesty should be after, Guantanamo Bay and Abu Gharaib were both accidents that are being reconciled.... Syria and Rwanda are not.
Vanni Fucci said:
No, it's not. Amnesty deals exclusively with GOVERNMENTS that are abusing human rights, not individual acts. Abu Gharaib and Guantanamo Bay are accidents, confusions, and lack of training. The military is responsible for this. What it was compared to was a Russian torture/workcamp that was setup by the government and maintained by the government.
Countries like Syria and Rwanda make torture and inhumanity their official policy. Those are the guys that Amnesty should be after, Guantanamo Bay and Abu Gharaib were both accidents that are being reconciled.... Syria and Rwanda are not.
Right! stick a glow stick up somebody ass is just a accident or was it just confusion. Guess anal orfus 101 was not in the training manual for the kiddies that have to into the killing fields eh?
Peabod? Orfus ?
Try Oriface.
And Mr Philosopher, the dysfunctional distinction you make is solid about government planned and organized, but I can't help but think the leadership had no clue what was going on in that prison. It's possible they just didn't want to know and therefore the malfeasance of not doing their job of oversight is of note.
I'm very divided on that Abu Graib scandal, because we're not supposed to be like them, and I'll bet most of "them" wouldn't mind killing you or your children on a sunny day.
Understood your point, Philosopher, and I'm not sure I've added much else to consider here.
Try Oriface.
And Mr Philosopher, the dysfunctional distinction you make is solid about government planned and organized, but I can't help but think the leadership had no clue what was going on in that prison. It's possible they just didn't want to know and therefore the malfeasance of not doing their job of oversight is of note.
I'm very divided on that Abu Graib scandal, because we're not supposed to be like them, and I'll bet most of "them" wouldn't mind killing you or your children on a sunny day.
Understood your point, Philosopher, and I'm not sure I've added much else to consider here.
I find it ironic that the same people who call AI's interpretation of the United States' violation of basic human rights 'absurd' will be the first to utilize AI's remarks about the abuses perpetrated by other countries to support their own contentions that other countries are abusers of human rights.
Read Amnesty International's report on the United States and then refute their points - if you can - before dismissing their conclusions as 'absurd'. Amnesty International represents one of the strongest viewpoints supporting human rights worldwide. Although I don't support some of their contentions, knowing that they are trying to err on the side of supporting human rights gives them more credence than the views of politicians who are being accused of those violations. If I were one of you people supporting the US Administration's POV about the AI report I would read it and form my own opinions first - once you do hopefully it will raise some very serious questions in your minds about the direction that your government is going WRT human rights in general, instead of concentrating on the political spin from Washington.
http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/usa-summary-eng
Read Amnesty International's report on the United States and then refute their points - if you can - before dismissing their conclusions as 'absurd'. Amnesty International represents one of the strongest viewpoints supporting human rights worldwide. Although I don't support some of their contentions, knowing that they are trying to err on the side of supporting human rights gives them more credence than the views of politicians who are being accused of those violations. If I were one of you people supporting the US Administration's POV about the AI report I would read it and form my own opinions first - once you do hopefully it will raise some very serious questions in your minds about the direction that your government is going WRT human rights in general, instead of concentrating on the political spin from Washington.
http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/usa-summary-eng
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/05/amnesty.detainee/
with the degree of "secrecy" in the USG , it is not surprising there are "secret prisons". Mind you........we often hear....about someone (s) being taken to a "secret location".....for "security" reasons.
"security reasons" offers up a vast arena for all kinds of unknown behavior. or "that's classified".
so much for "transparency" in Gov't.
with the degree of "secrecy" in the USG , it is not surprising there are "secret prisons". Mind you........we often hear....about someone (s) being taken to a "secret location".....for "security" reasons.
"security reasons" offers up a vast arena for all kinds of unknown behavior. or "that's classified".
so much for "transparency" in Gov't.
Well thanks to fafblog eveything is cleared up for me now. 
So You're Being Tortured To Death In An American Military Prison!
Q: Help! I'm being tortured to death in an American military prison! What should I do?
A: First of all, you should get your facts straight. You're not being tortured to death in an American military prison; you're being interrogated to death in an American detainment facility. America does not tolerate torture.
Q: Is there any sort of legal representative or due process I could get before being beaten to death?
A: No. Lawyers, open legal procedures, and basic civil liberties are all tools the enemy can use to escape justice - the justice of being beaten to death in a prison camp.
Q: It's just that my name is Musab Mohammed Khan, the pastry chef, and I believe you have me confused with Musab Muhammed Khan, the al Qaeda associate also known as "The Fist of Jihad."
A: First, there are many terrorist pastry chefs, just as there are many terrorist pastries. Second, competent intelligence and accurate prison records are both tools the enemy can use to escape justice.
Q: I seem to be losing all feeling in my lower body. Is there a doctor in the gulag?
A: Please: we find the term "gulag" absurd and offensive. A "gulag" is Russian. You are not being interrogated to death by Russians. You are being interrogated to death by the greatest country in the world.
Q: Is there a more accurate term you'd pre- aaaa! AAAAAAAA!
A: We prefer "outpost of liberty" or "island of freedom." Stringing together Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, and Bagram Airbase creates the Freedom Archipelago.
Q: So! Much! FreeedaaaAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGH!!!
Q: When I die in a few minutes, will my death help the cause of freedom?
A: Not really. But in a way, isn't death itself just freedom from life - the greatest prison of all?
Q: Wow... you've *HRAAACK* totally blown my mind - and my lung and ribcage and my kneecaps!
A: Oh, don't thank us - it's all part of being tortured to death in an American military prison!
So You're Being Tortured To Death In An American Military Prison!
Q: Help! I'm being tortured to death in an American military prison! What should I do?
A: First of all, you should get your facts straight. You're not being tortured to death in an American military prison; you're being interrogated to death in an American detainment facility. America does not tolerate torture.
Q: Is there any sort of legal representative or due process I could get before being beaten to death?
A: No. Lawyers, open legal procedures, and basic civil liberties are all tools the enemy can use to escape justice - the justice of being beaten to death in a prison camp.
Q: It's just that my name is Musab Mohammed Khan, the pastry chef, and I believe you have me confused with Musab Muhammed Khan, the al Qaeda associate also known as "The Fist of Jihad."
A: First, there are many terrorist pastry chefs, just as there are many terrorist pastries. Second, competent intelligence and accurate prison records are both tools the enemy can use to escape justice.
Q: I seem to be losing all feeling in my lower body. Is there a doctor in the gulag?
A: Please: we find the term "gulag" absurd and offensive. A "gulag" is Russian. You are not being interrogated to death by Russians. You are being interrogated to death by the greatest country in the world.
Q: Is there a more accurate term you'd pre- aaaa! AAAAAAAA!
A: We prefer "outpost of liberty" or "island of freedom." Stringing together Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, and Bagram Airbase creates the Freedom Archipelago.
Q: So! Much! FreeedaaaAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGH!!!
Q: When I die in a few minutes, will my death help the cause of freedom?
A: Not really. But in a way, isn't death itself just freedom from life - the greatest prison of all?
Q: Wow... you've *HRAAACK* totally blown my mind - and my lung and ribcage and my kneecaps!
A: Oh, don't thank us - it's all part of being tortured to death in an American military prison!
http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2005/06/ldw135.html
the graphic on the site.......speaks volumes. :twisted:
( quite sick )
the graphic on the site.......speaks volumes. :twisted:
( quite sick )
Walrus said:
Then when you're done reading you can ask Amnesty USA themselves about the report:
Schulz recently dubbed Rumsfeld an "apparent high-level architect of torture" in asserting he approved interrogation methods that violated international law.
"It would be fascinating to find out. I have no idea," Schulz told "Fox News Sunday."
Schulz said, "We don't know for sure what all is happening at Guantanamo and our whole point is that the United States ought to allow independent human rights organizations to investigate."
He also said he had "absolutely no idea" whether the International Red Cross had been given access to all prisoners and said the group feared others were being held at secret facilities or locations.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8108375/
Looks like a really well researched report. Apparently Canada gets honourable mention a couple of times too. Maybe I'll get around to reading it someday.
Ocean Breeze said:
Reminds me of an old George Carlin joke about ordering acne medication from the back of a comic book: "You KNOW it works!! Because there's a drawing of a girl with dots on her face, then there's a drawing of the SAME GIRL WITHOUT THE DOTS!!"