Burma: Thousands dead in massacre

hermanntrude

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jun 23, 2006
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Newfoundland!
As for the actual situation, it's a terrible thing and if the UN can help, they ought to.

Note to the rest of the forum, how about having some decency and instead of turning this into yet another left/right wing slagging match, we have some sympathy for those poor skinny fellows who led a life of hardship and piousness only to find themselves floating face down in a river
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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As for the actual situation, it's a terrible thing and if the UN can help, they ought to.

Note to the rest of the forum, how about having some decency and instead of turning this into yet another left/right wing slagging match, we have some sympathy for those poor skinny fellows who led a life of hardship and piousness only to find themselves floating face down in a river

The UN has the problem of having a 190 generals and only a few soldiers and by the time any decision is made, it is often too late. I really hope they can do something on this problem before that damned junta kills all of them. The sad thing is that the monks would never have resorted to violence.
 

hermanntrude

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jun 23, 2006
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Newfoundland!
The UN has the problem of having a 190 generals and only a few soldiers and by the time any decision is made, it is often too late.

that's why I said if. I'm not very much up on international politics but I am aware that some people hold little faith in the UN.

I really hope they can do something on this problem before that damned junta kills all of them. The sad thing is that the monks would never have resorted to violence.

Very sad.
 

Niflmir

A modern nomad
Dec 18, 2006
3,460
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Leiden, the Netherlands
As for the actual situation, it's a terrible thing and if the UN can help, they ought to.

Note to the rest of the forum, how about having some decency and instead of turning this into yet another left/right wing slagging match, we have some sympathy for those poor skinny fellows who led a life of hardship and piousness only to find themselves floating face down in a river

Its quite incredible what those monks put themselves through. They believe so strongly, for the most part, in non-violent methods triumphing that they march in thousands knowing the punishment they may face. I have been thinking a lot lately about how successful such extreme pacifism may be.
 

goat

Time Out
Mar 8, 2007
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Juan used to be a mod here and is a well-respected member, Gopher, although slightly rabid when it comes to all things Bush is also a long-term member and has respect also, and tonington is well-agreed to be one of the most level-headed and brilliant posters on the board.
Let me be perfectly clear.

I don't need, require, or want pathetic robust endearments from you or anyone else on this board regarding others. I know most of the active posters on this board from previous boards and incarnations. So please keep your unasked for intrusions to yourself.

You see.

I know of whom I speak
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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Well, I'd like to see China involved too, but I don't like the kind of history they have when it comes to foreign policy, especially interventionist action. Perhaps some other nations could go in with China if they showed any inclination of wanting to help. I wouldn't call myself a person who waits for the watchdog UN to intervene, I just think if there were any legitimacy in the Security Council, that this would be an excellent case study to prove their worth. As it is, I expect nothing but talk and rhetoric.

Something I was thinking about today during some boring lectures, the monks want to use non-violent methods to spur change, I wonder how they would feel about a foreign military(or coalition) coming in and crushing the current Military regime. If so, how would they feel about a security force being left behind to keep the society civil while the transition to democracy is made? It's hard to tell without much access to them at this point. Ideally we should, as the international community as a whole, be asking them, the citizens of Burma what they want us to do.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
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In the bush near Sudbury
This massacre is only being reported by one person. Is there any back-up to his story ? And I have been around here long enough to become familiar with gopher's posts,any political post about anything,and some posts that have nothing to do with politics or the U.S., such as this one invariably ends up with the child writing something deraogatory about the U.S. and/or Bush.

Khmer Rouge killing fields were only reported by one person - at first. Keep in mind, Burmese military are making sure very little news leaks out of the country. Someone above suggested this would be a great time for the world's "little guys" to get together and kick some bad boy butt. Methinks it's time to re-create UN. The old Lady has lost her clout....

Wolf
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
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Let me be perfectly clear.

I don't need, require, or want pathetic robust endearments from you or anyone else on this board regarding others. I know most of the active posters on this board from previous boards and incarnations. So please keep your unasked for intrusions to yourself.

You see.

I know of whom I speak

Who were you before you were banned, or in your previous incarnation? You've been trying to pick a fight for a while now. Run along....Nobody is interested, go away.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Wow!

Both Colpy and thomaska ''defend'' 'lefty gopher'.

Ahem.

But 'lefty'? Dunno about that.

After all, I've endorsed Republican Ron Paul for prez, am the biggest pro-lifer on the planet, condemned Malthusianism which is advocated by extremists from both sides of the political aisle, strongly support Second Amendment rights, and have used Pat Buchanan's links more than anyone else's to support my opposition to Bush's war.

Nonetheless, thanks fellas! Ahem ...

Sorry, Gopher, sometimes the whole left-right thing just doesn't work...

Now I've both defended you and apologized to you......

When are we going to pick out curtains?

:)
 

goat

Time Out
Mar 8, 2007
103
3
18
Who were you before you were banned, or in your previous incarnation? You've been trying to pick a fight for a while now. Run along....Nobody is interested, go away.

Interesting.

Surely you will be kind enough to point out where exactly I have been picking a fight.

It would appear you are the sole disparaging ommadawn on this thread.

Problem with my jackpot posts of ecus spilling and overflowing onto your screen.

I suggest you exercise ignore.

And try very hard not to continue on your broken path of being a complete and utter yob
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
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California
Goat

Please don't give anyone a reason to ban you - I'd miss your refreshing voice when you find time to post.

It isn't worth it - taken me years to know you can't reason with stone.

It isn't worth giving some people what they want either. Fighting and insulting is their get off point.

None of my business of course - but there are some here welcome your messages...which in a free world you have a right to express.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
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Interesting.

Surely you will be kind enough to point out where exactly I have been picking a fight.

It would appear you are the sole disparaging ommadawn on this thread.

Problem with my jackpot posts of ecus spilling and overflowing onto your screen.

I suggest you exercise ignore.

And try very hard not to continue on your broken path of being a complete and utter yob

Piss off....Please...
 
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karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
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bliss
a reminder to all posters, that the issue of this thread is not personal attacks. It is a massacre. Please address the issue, not the posters. I'd hate to have to lock the thread. These people deserve a moment of our attention.
 

wallyj

just special
May 7, 2006
1,230
21
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not in Kansas anymore
Khmer Rouge killing fields were only reported by one person - at first. Keep in mind, Burmese military are making sure very little news leaks out of the country. Someone above suggested this would be a great time for the world's "little guys" to get together and kick some bad boy butt. Methinks it's time to re-create UN. The old Lady has lost her clout....

Wolf
It has been a couple days now,and there are reports coming out of Myanmar,so I am doubting the massacre moreso . I know that gopher pointed out that the original story was in a right-wing rag,therefore it must be correct,but I don't buy that,even rght-wing papers make an error on occasion,just not a tenth of the time that the left-wing ones do. I am also thinking that the first country to intervene in any meaningful way into this clustermess will be those darn Yankees,once again,and no doubt they will be vilified by those papers and people who are usually wrong.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
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63
California
The news is tough to read - Google's page is filled with up to this date's information

Here is one article which caught my eye...it's one of many side-prompts on the Asia Times paper...

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/II29Ae02.html

Southeast Asia
Sep 29, 2007
Myanmar's blogs of bloodshed
By Richard S Ehrlich

BANGKOK - Dodging a deadly military crackdown, bloggers in Myanmar are now on the front lines providing news and photos of death and insurrection. The military responded on Friday by closing down the Internet, signaling that a wider and more severe crackdown on street protesters could be imminent.

At least 10 people are believed to have been killed this week in protests led by Buddhist monks against the military government. Scores of people have been arrested, including monks, during



demonstrations that have brought tens of thousands of people onto the streets of the old capital Yangon since the beginning of the week.

Beginning on Monday, Myanmar authorities started to close down several public Internet cafes in Yangon, according to international press freedom groups. The state-affiliated main Internet service provider, Bagan Cybertech, meanwhile, apparently on government
orders had slowed down the speed of its Internet connections, making it more difficult for journalists and bloggers to send large-file-size photos and video clips to outside news organizations.

Less than 1% of the Myanmar population has regular access to the Internet. But those who at least until today had regular access were able to get around government-
administered blocks on internationally hosted e-mail accounts and the wider Internet by using an array of proxy servers, proxy sites and so-called http tunnels.

Their weblogs, written in Burmese and grammatically flawed English, are mostly by people living in the commercial port of Yangon, where Buddhist monks, pro-democracy activists and residents have been defying security forces during more than a week of protests.

The bloggers rely on word of mouth, mobile telephones, online chat groups, instant messaging, and first-hand experience in barricaded streets amid tear gas and gunfire.

The best blogs provide photos, video and text updates purportedly by witnesses, which are later confirmed by news organizations or, in some cases, can't be verified.

Myanmar's bloody pro-democracy protests have captivated the outside world, including US President George W Bush, the United Nations and the public, thanks largely to the bloggers' media.

Myanmar's military regime refused to grant visas to foreign correspondents, and blocked visas for many foreign tourists, after the mass uprising worsened several days ago.

Burmese and foreign residents in Yangon, Mandalay and elsewhere in Myanmar - which is mainland Southeast Asia's biggest nation - surprised everyone by risking their lives to document the demand for liberty.

Some of the best blogs appear to be by people trying to live a normal life while updating the world about the marches and bloodshed on the streets.

One poignant blog, by a young, "sensitive" Myanma woman who identifies herself as Dawn, appears at www.xanga.com/dawn_1o9. "Around 1:20 or 1:30pm, I heard someone saying that the police/army started shooting in the air," Dawn wrote, describing Yangon on Wednesday.

"At 2:00pm, I heard that buses have stopped running on Sule Pagoda Road. Someone from the office went out to there, and came running back when there were shots being fired. I heard the gunshots too, but it sounded a lot like clapping. So I went out to look," Dawn said.

"I was reading the news on a blogger's Cbox, and it said that at least five monks were dead at Shwedagon Pagoda. My sis had already called home and told my brother not to go to work. I called home too, and also to my father. He told me to stay at work and not to go out."

International media said at least one person died when security forces attacked protesters on Wednesday, though some news reports said up to five people may have been killed.

In gallows humor, Dawn wrote: "I'll let you know when I've been shot. I'll ask someone before I die to blog about it. If it was an instant death, I'll come to my sister in my dream and tell her to blog about it, or I won't rest in peace."

Another popular blogger created a "prosaic collection" of vivid text and photos at ko-htike.blogspot.com and said, "now regime open fire into these group, and used fire engine to sweep the blood on the street".

Foreigners blogging in Myanmar include burmesedayze.blogspot.com, written by someone who moved to Yangon in March 2006.

Before the protests, Myanmar had a strong presence on the Internet, created over the years by Burmese dissidents and foreigners who established pro-democracy websites in Thailand, Europe, North America and elsewhere.

In 2006, Myanmar's pro-democracy leader and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Aung San Suu Kyi received a MySpace.com webpage, created by Americans to publicize her decade under house arrest in Yangon.

Other websites were created by non-governmental organizations, or received funding from US government and other international sources, enabling additional offline publication of magazines and radio broadcasts abroad.

These include Irrawaddy.org, which also publishes a monthly Irrawaddy magazine in Thailand, and DVB.no, the Democratic Voice of Burma radio, based in Norway.

The most respected of those websites are now mainstream, offering reports quoted by international news organizations.

In 1988, Burmese journalists in exile set up Mizzima.com, promoting democracy in Myanmar through the activists' India-based Mizzima News Agency, which is bilingual in Burmese and English, and now includes online video.

Some blogs, such as weunite-weblog.blogspot.com, collect Internet links relating to Myanmar, and warn when the regime blocks websites and blogs.

Graffiti artists can now go to saffronrevolutionworldwide.blogspot.com for stencil images portraying Buddhist monks - to be cut out, held against a wall, and spray-painted, resulting in a picture of two monks walking - similar to internationally acclaimed graffiti artist Bansky's urban icons.

"You can help make this image appear all over the world, reminding people everywhere of the uprising in Burma and showing that the struggle for freedom is alive everywhere," said the bloggers, based in Mae Sot, Thailand, on the Myanmar border.

"Monks make great stencil images ... download the pattern and get your monks on the march!"

Richard S Ehrlich is a Bangkok-based journalist from San Francisco, California. He has reported news from Asia since 1978 and is co-author of the non-fiction book of investigative journalism, Hello My Big Big Honey! Love Letters to Bangkok Bar Girls and Their Revealing Interviews. His website is www.geocities.com/asia_correspondent. With additional reporting by Asia Times Online.



1. The man behind the madness

2. US frets over Iran's 'strategic dominance'

3. Russia is far from oil's peak

4. How the 'gang of four' lost Iraq

5. Monks in the vanguard for regime change

6. The Iraq oil grab that went awry

7. Buddha vs the barrel of a gun

8.French warmongering aids Iran's cause

9. When central banks play with fire

10. Japan's premier faces India dilemma

11. Economics at the root of protests

(24 hours to 11:59 pm ET, Sep 27, 2007)
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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Colpy said:
Sorry, Gopher, sometimes the whole left-right thing just doesn't work...

Now I've both defended you and apologized to you......

When are we going to pick out curtains?

:)



Here's a beaded Peace curtain just for you:





Peace!
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Unfortunately, Gopher, those kind of curtains haven't served the Monks of Burma very well.

Might have been better had they been bullet-proof.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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Minnesota: Gopher State
Yes, very sad indeed.

But it proves a point that Bush's war on Iraq (which was ostensibly to promote democracy, among other things) was wasted because the people there do not want democracy whereas the people of Burma do.

But there can be no question that if Burma had oil and the corporate welfare recipients were in jeopardy of losing it, Bush and the Republicans would have found some excuse to invade.