BREAKING: Ontario PC Leader Slammed With Sexual Misconduct Allegations

White_Unifier

Senate Member
Feb 21, 2017
7,300
2
36
I've suffered different degrees of sexual assault in childhood and adulthood. The worst instance of this involved a physical sexual assault by a woman.

I never reported her to the police, and there were a few reasons for this:

1. I had contributed negligently my own assault through actions that had put me in a vulnerable position. That's not to say that that excused the assault. In no way did it excuse it. But I was too ashamed to admit to anyone how I'd negligently contributed to it.

2. Should I have revealed my attacker in the court of public opinion, two things could come of it: people believe me or they disbelieve me. If they disbelieve me, then I look like a fool; and if they believe me, then how do they know I'm telling the truth and not just defaming the alleged attacker's character? Even if I know what happened to me to be true, should anyone just blindly believe me because #Ibelieve, then for me to possess that kind of power would scare me. After all, what if someone should make a false accusation against me one day?

For these reasons, I'd never reported it in a criminal court nor in the court of public opinion. Even if point 1 above had not applied, I would not have wanted that kind of power to just accuse and automatically be believed. I knew I couldn't ave proved it in a court of law. Even if I'd gone to get a rape kit test, all it would have proved was that we had sex, not whether it was consensual or not.

It's a shame that these kinds of things are so difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt; but whether we like it or not, this kind of thing belongs in a court of law, not in the court of public opinion.

That said, if point 1 had not applied, I certainly would have made a criminal complaint.
 
Last edited:

White_Unifier

Senate Member
Feb 21, 2017
7,300
2
36
Oh, and in spite of my experience, I still oppose rape shield laws: they merely increase the risk of a wrongful conviction. I can categorically say that a sexual assault is a traumatic experience even when the victim is physically stronger than the attacker; but still, the consequences of a wrongful conviction are too great to play around with. Even in the best of conditions, wrongful convictions will happen. I accept that. It's the nature of the beast. But we don't need to exacerbate it with rape shield laws.
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
4
36
live on cbc the ontario tories explaining why they shit canned this guy on a couple of allegations
 

White_Unifier

Senate Member
Feb 21, 2017
7,300
2
36
WOW Man, sorry to hear that. :(

I'm not alone. Read the stats:

According to Melissa and Joshua Hall in The Long-Term Effects of Childhood Sexual Abuse: Counselling Implications, ‘twenty-eight to 33% of women and 12 to 18% of men were victims of childhood or adolescent sexual abuse (Roland, 2002, as cited in Long, Burnett, & Thomas, 2006).’

‘Survivors of sexual abuse may experience difficulty in establishing interpersonal relationships. Symptoms correlated with childhood sexual abuse may hinder the development and growth of relationships. Common relationship difficulties that survivors may experience are difficulties with trust, fear of intimacy, fear of being different or weird, difficulty establishing interpersonal boundaries, passive behaviors, and getting involved in abusive relationships (Ratican, 1992).’
https://www.counseling.org/docs/dis...ng-term-effects-of-childhood-sexual-abuse.pdf

In the online pdf article Sex Addiction on the Internet by Mark Griffith (Nottingham Trent University, UK), the author states:
‘It is hard to establish the extent of sex addiction although estimates range from 3-6% of the population (Carnes, 1999). Further, research indicates a high correlation between childhood abuse and sexual addiction in adulthood, and it is very common for sex addicts to have experienced high levels of emotional, physical and/or sexual abuse. Socio-demographic characteristics are skewed by those who turn up for treatment in specialist clinics or self-help groups such as Sexaholics Anonymous (SA), Sexual Compulsives Anonymous (SCA), and Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous (SLAA). It appears to be mostly male with an increasing number of females. However, sex addictions appear to come from all races, classes and sexual orientations.’

He goes on to state:
‘Sex addiction appears to have recognizable behaviour patterns (Carnes, 1999). This involves acting out a pattern of out of control sexual behaviour (e.g. compulsive masturbation, persistent indulging in pornography, having constant affairs, etc.) in which severe mood changes relate to sexual activity. The sex addict experiences severe consequences due to sexual behaviour and an inability to stop despite these adverse consequences. These consequences can include loss of partner or spouse, severe marital or relationship problems, loss of career opportunities, unwanted pregnancies, abortions, suicidal obsession, suicide attempts, exposure to sexually transmitted diseases, and legal risks from nuisance offences to rape. Sex addicts gradually increase the amount of sexual activity because the current level of activity is no longer sufficiently satisfying (i.e. they build up tolerance). As tolerance develops, individuals may find themselves seeking out more unusual sexual experiences, and more graphic pornography. These behaviour patterns are only indicative and do not preclude other signs that may be indicative of sex addiction.’
http://www.janushead.org/7-1/griffiths.pdf

Studies suggest not only that substance and gambling addiction afflict prostituted persons, but that sex addiction itself might permeate the sex industry through not only clients but sellers too:
‘It is argued that legalized brothels or other "controlled" prostitution establishments "protect" women through enforceable condom policies. In one of CATW's studies, U.S. women in prostitution interviewed reported the following: 47% stated that men expected sex without a condom; 73% reported that men offered to pay more for sex without a condom; 45% of women said they were abused if they insisted that men use condoms. Some women said that certain establishments may have rules that men wear condoms but, in reality, men still try to have sex without them. One woman stated: "It's 'regulation' to wear a condom at the sauna, but negotiable between parties on the side. Most guys expected blow jobs without a condom (Raymond and Hughes: 2001)."’
10 Reasons for Not Legalizing Prostitution | Vancouver Rape Relief & Women's Shelter


According to Paul Gertler, Manisha Shah, and Stefano M. Bertozzi on page 24 of Risky Business: The Market for Unprotected Commercial Sex (2003):
‘We find that sex workers in Mexico are responding rationally to financial incentives. There is strong evidence that sex workers are willing to assume the risks associated with providing unprotected sex for a 23 percent higher price. This premium increased to 46 percent if the sex worker was considered very attractive, a clear indication of her bargaining power. However, clients who preferred condom use paid an 8 percent premium to use condoms and sex workers who did not want to use condoms had to reduce the price by 20 percent to compensate clients for taking the risk.’
http://manishashah.bol.ucla.edu/papers/shah_JPE.pdf

Both buyers and sellers who know the health and pregnancy risks of unprotected sex with anonymous partners in random hook-ups offer a premium or a discount to actively seek it or even rape for it. This suggests not ignorance but rather compulsive behaviour and thus an indicator of a possible behavioural addiction. From a mental-health perspective, the relationship between a buyer and a seller is less one between two ‘consenting’ adults and more one comparable to two heroin addicts getting together to share needles to drown the pain of their trauma. While two heroin addicts may ‘consent’ to sharing needles, a behavioural addiction coerces them into that ‘consent.’ Prostitution can serve as a gateway drug leading to escalation to ever more violent behaviour for both the buyer and the seller. I don’t see how two trauma survivors getting together to have anonymous emotionally-detached sex benefits either of them.

‘Half of all women in Canada have experienced at least one incident of physical or sexual violence since the age of 16.’
http://canadianwomen.org/facts-about-violence

Furthermore, sexual violence against women can contribute to a trans-generational and inter-sexual cycle of violence: ‘A total of 43 percent of high school boys and young college men reported they had an unwanted sexual experience and of those, 95 percent said a female acquaintance was the aggressor, according to a study published online in the APA journal Psychology of Men and Masculinity®.’
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/03/coerced-sex.aspx

live on cbc the ontario tories explaining why they shit canned this guy on a couple of allegations

Again, I have no qualms about:

1. a person telling me that he or she has been abused.

2. a person asking for help for abuse.

3. a person filing a criminal complaint against an attacker.

I'm in two minds about a person identifying his or her attacker to me without being willing to then make a criminal complaint against the alleged attacker. He or she might be telling the truth, I can empathize, I can understand that the person might fear going to court, I might be willing to help, but how can I judge the alleged attacker without proof?

I totally oppose a person identifying their attacker except in vague terms that don't identify a particular person in the court of public opinion and then refuse to make a criminal complaint. Not because the person is lying necessarily, but just because making such an accusation is bloody serious and not to be taken lightly.
 

Danbones

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 23, 2015
24,505
2,198
113
due process for sex abusers but not for victims

that is timelessly conservative.

Coming from a defender of pedos and KNOWN liars - that's pretty sad doood.
Lying about someone being a rapist is as bad as being a rapist, so is protecting and promoting those liars.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
Right. Which is why Trudeau and Morneau still haven't stepped down for violating federal law.
Funny that eh? You approve of Conservatives resigning over allegations yet insist that Trudeau is completely innocent of federal violations of which he has actually been found guilty.

Then we have the Ontario Liberals who shoved a sex-ed curriculum on the children that was drafted by a convicted pedophile. Yet you defended the curriculum and the Liberal's decision to go with it because it was just so "progressive".

Spare us your false morality. It's a f*cking joke.

False equivalence - and a pretty obvious one at that.


It's to bad, I liked Patrick Brown.

To be sure, so-cons are happier than Libs are about this.

Nope.

They just confirmed they're keeping the same platform so social conservatives can stay enraged.

That's what the criminal justice system is for.

For reassuring politicians why they lost their job?

Coming from a defender of pedos and KNOWN liars - that's pretty sad doood.
Lying about someone being a rapist is as bad as being a rapist, so is protecting and promoting those liars.

He's never defended paedophiles.

Unlike you.
 

White_Unifier

Senate Member
Feb 21, 2017
7,300
2
36
I'm just saying that identifying a person as a sexual attacker is a powerful act and not to be made frivolously. I'm not accusing the accuser of making it up. Without facts, my first instinct would be to believe since few people would make such a thing up. However, that instinct is precisely what false accusers rely on. Even if the accuser is telling the truth (and she may very well be), still the power of being unquestioningly believed is a powerful one.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
Not as a percentage of their income.



"It's a difficult and brave thing to do to come forward in the way these young women have done tonight. My government and I have been clear on the issue of sexual harassment and assault. In fact our policy and our ad were called 'It's Never Okay."' -- Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
Fedeli issues statement on Brown

“This evening, we learned of disturbing allegations levelled against Patrick Brown.

“The Ontario PC Caucus unanimously agrees that Mr. Brown cannot continue serving as the Leader.

“Mr. Brown is entitled to a legal defence and due process, but he cannot lead us into an election as a result of these allegations.

“The Ontario PC caucus unequivocally upholds the principle that a safe and respectful society is what we expect and deserve. We need to move forward to eradicate sexual violence and harassment across the province.

“Our caucus will immediately consult with party officials and members on best way to move forward to defeat the (Kathleen) Wynne government in the 2018 election.

“We will not be diverted from our mission to ensure our strong team can share our message of change.”

Fedeli issues statement on Brown | North Bay Nugget
 

Danbones

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 23, 2015
24,505
2,198
113
MF you of all people have proven time and time again that you antifappers guys are all about baseless allegations
;)
cheating is the only way you can wynn.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,492
14,318
113
Low Earth Orbit
Picked up a .30-30 Win. yesterday..

I love my 1894. 20" barrel is perfect for the bush and in close defensive. The balance is impeccable making it super easy to handle.

Fedeli issues statement on Brown

“This evening, we learned of disturbing allegations levelled against Patrick Brown.

“The Ontario PC Caucus unanimously agrees that Mr. Brown cannot continue serving as the Leader.

“Mr. Brown is entitled to a legal defence and due process, but he cannot lead us into an election as a result of these allegations.

“The Ontario PC caucus unequivocally upholds the principle that a safe and respectful society is what we expect and deserve. We need to move forward to eradicate sexual violence and harassment across the province.

“Our caucus will immediately consult with party officials and members on best way to move forward to defeat the (Kathleen) Wynne government in the 2018 election.

“We will not be diverted from our mission to ensure our strong team can share our message of change.”

Fedeli issues statement on Brown | North Bay Nugget
They can run without a leader and still beat Wynne.