Best solution for defending Arctic sovereignty?

[L Gilbert]

I like the trees in the background on the first pic,no trees in the high arctic anna,this is what I mean about peeps who havent been there,they take what info they find on the net and run with it thinking its the truth because hey,someone published a paper once and got some more grant money for research.
So they must be right.

Grow up.

Ever heard of Krummholz? Those cool looking gnarly shrubs aren't actually shrubs. They are spruce trees.

A list of Arctic and alpine tree-line species in North America:

• Subalpine fir (Abies lasiocarpa)
• Subalpine Larch (Larix lyallii)
• Engelmann Spruce (Picea engelmannii)
• Whitebark Pine (Pinus albicaulis)
• Great Basin Bristlecone Pine (Pinus longaeva)
• Rocky Mountains Bristlecone Pine (Pinus aristata)
• Foxtail Pine (Pinus balfouriana)
• Limber Pine (Pinus flexilis)
• Potosi Pinyon (Pinus culminicola)
• Black spruce (Picea mariana)
• Hartweg's Pine (Pinus hartwegii)

In Europe/Asia:

• Dahurian Larch (Larix gmelinii)
• Macedonian Pine (Pinus peuce)
• Swiss Pine (Pinus cembra)
• Mountain Pine (Pinus mugo)
• Arctic White Birch (Betula pubescens subsp. tortuosa)
• Of course, if you only consider the Arctic to be wherever trees aren't then you are right, but most everyone else considers north of 60 to be Arctic.

 

[Kakato]

Kakato, those trees could be anywhere between Churchill and Arviat. Also we had a delegation of NATO officers come through Cambridge Bay on a tour of the Arctic in 2007.

churchill was the last place I saw trees and they werent very big,and as the CBC pointed out in their doc the other day we have 500 regular military in the whole north and we have 5000 rangers who take their job of being the eyes and ears of the north very seriously.;-)

 

[Kakato]

Grow up.

Ever heard of Krummholz? Those cool looking gnarly shrubs aren't actually shrubs. They are spruce trees.

A list of Arctic and alpine tree-line species in North America:

• Subalpine fir (Abies lasiocarpa)
• Subalpine Larch (Larix lyallii)
• Engelmann Spruce (Picea engelmannii)
• Whitebark Pine (Pinus albicaulis)
• Great Basin Bristlecone Pine (Pinus longaeva)
• Rocky Mountains Bristlecone Pine (Pinus aristata)
• Foxtail Pine (Pinus balfouriana)
• Limber Pine (Pinus flexilis)
• Potosi Pinyon (Pinus culminicola)
• Black spruce (Picea mariana)
• Hartweg's Pine (Pinus hartwegii)

In Europe/Asia:

• Dahurian Larch (Larix gmelinii)
• Macedonian Pine (Pinus peuce)
• Swiss Pine (Pinus cembra)
• Mountain Pine (Pinus mugo)
• Arctic White Birch (Betula pubescens subsp. tortuosa)
• Of course, if you only consider the Arctic to be wherever trees aren't then you are right, but most everyone else considers north of 60 to be Arctic.

The arctic barrenlands arent north of 60 and who really cares anyways except you?
Check out my pics and let me know if you see any trees,biggest one I saw was about an inch tall.I dont know where your from but even here in small spruce Alberta we wouldnt call that a tree.

I was up there when the Mars mission was on Devon island training,talked to them quite a bit,funny how the weather actually gets nicer sometimes the farther north of the hudsons bay you go.Thats north of 60 and you can check enviro Canadas records if you want to see who actually set the record for cold temps and it wasnt in the high arctic mon ami.
60 miles south or north of the circle just means more or less daylight,not much else but if you have been there you would know that.
There isnt a line drawn at the arctic circle that says it gets ugly north of this,it's actually in Winnipeg.:lol:

Grow up? Im trying to add to the discussion of what I deem to be a very important part of Canada and you just want to argue.
Your probably one of the peeps that wants heavy icebreakers up there also for god know what reason.

 

[Kakato]

My blaster in the north,i'm used to seeing her driving by me in a quad with a stick of TNT between her legs. I should have married that gal.
Luv you steph.
shes the gal on the right.

 

[Kakato]

Life is tough in the north unless you have a good lookin blaster with some cute hippy gal pals.

 

[Lou Garu]

My photo album on this site Arctic smiles Photo Album


They arent all that high paying,but things have ground to a halt as far as exploration go's which is strange considering the price of gold right now.

I do love the place just for its sheer size and vastness and loneliness,every trip up there leaves me breathless from about Churchill north anytime I step off a plane or chopper in the many airports you have to hit on the milk run to Rankin inlet,your in a different world.
I have over 5000 pics of stuff I saw up there as im a real cam ***** and I also have 70 video's on youtube of my adventures up there since day one under the username zigmiester.

Flying over the Thelon and seeing the migrating caribou herds is a real mind blower.
Things will pick up next year.

bookmarked

 

[YukonJack]

"Best solution for defending Arctic sovereignty?"

Be friends with America.

 

[Kakato]

"Best solution for defending Arctic sovereignty?"

Be friends with America.

More like the French who have been there a long time,poutine is available allmost anywhere in the Arctic.:roll:

 

[petros]

More like the French who have been there a long time,poutine is available almost anywhere in the Arctic.:roll:

They are our best customer when it comes to U3 O8. The city of Lights as well big portion of EU is lit by Canadian uranium. Same goes for Asia.

There is big money to be made for the UFOs (Unemployed From Ontario) if they can handle a thicker parka.

There is a massive iron ore development that will employ close to 2500 people opening soon. That is just one of hundreds of ore bodies sitting in waiting.

Making friends with America won't do **** against the Russians who are 75 years ahead of the game in Aortic research and development in industry and military.

Corn fed Americans and their military built for fighting in sand don't have a hope in hell of operating up there. American hydraulic aircraft and tanks don't work so well even at -20C.

A Blackhawk can't even operate in the northern US states in winter.

So making friends with Russia to stop worrying about Russia is the best solution.

 

[Kakato]

They are our best customer when it comes to U3 O8. The city of Lights as well big portion of EU is lit by Canadian uranium. Same goes for Asia.

There is big money to be made for the UFOs (Unemployed From Ontario) if they can handle a thicker parka.

There is a massive iron ore development that will employ close to 2500 people opening soon. That is just one of hundreds of ore bodies sitting in waiting.

Making friends with America won't do **** against the Russians who are 75 years ahead of the game in Aortic research and development in industry and military.

Corn fed Americans and their military built for fighting in sand don't have a hope in hell of operating up there. American hydraulic aircraft and tanks don't work so well even at -20C.

A Blackhawk can't even operate in the northern US states in winter.

So making friends with Russia to stop worrying about Russia is the best solution.

Heh Heh,corn fed and their extreme cold mitts have faux fur on them to be PC.

That ore body is on Baffin island? I heard they will have a port and rails going from the mine to the port.Good stuff.

I know those Russian choppers dont need much pre heating untill after -30 where ours wont even fly after -40 unless in an emergency,thats bell longrangers and A stars and not blackhawks though.Tanks would be useless unless they operate in winter only on the ice.Still anything hydraulic is going to fail up there and we were useing brand new Cat equipment last time i was north and it sure wasnt meant for the cold,hoses cracking steady,insufficient heaters and unless you had a burlap sack over the precleaner that new cat equipment would quit after an hour because of the ice cyrstals that would clog the primary and secondary filters hard as cement.

One thing I learned in the arctic is not much works up there.:lol:
Good thing I didnt need to depend on a bic lighter for a fire,I would have died.
The CBC did a not bad documentary on the north a few days ago,except for the icebreaker fantasy most of it was bang on.

 

[jjaycee98]

Do you also think this way about Quebec soveriegnty, or Alberta, or Newfoundland?

 

[Kakato]

Do you also think this way about Quebec soveriegnty, or Alberta, or Newfoundland?

I think were talking about our most northern border,not the seperation thing.;-)

 

[L Gilbert]

The arctic barrenlands arent north of 60 and who really cares anyways except you?

Lots of people care. And so what if you think the Arctic barrrenlandss aren't north of 60. There are trees north of 60. You stated there aren't trees in the Arctic. You were wrong. Inuvik has trees. Where is Inuvik? When I visited there, I saw trees. Birch trees even.

Check out my pics and let me know if you see any trees,biggest one I saw was about an inch tall.I dont know where your from but even here in small spruce Alberta we wouldnt call that a tree.

So there weren't any trees where you were. Big deal. I didn't see any Arctic foxes up north either but I am pretty sure there are Arctic foxes up there. Same with harp seals and walruses. I never saw those either.

I was up there when the Mars mission was on Devon island training,talked to them quite a bit,funny how the weather actually gets nicer sometimes the farther north of the hudsons bay you go.Thats north of 60 and you can check enviro Canadas records if you want to see who actually set the record for cold temps and it wasnt in the high arctic mon ami.
60 miles south or north of the circle just means more or less daylight,not much else but if you have been there you would know that.
There isnt a line drawn at the arctic circle that says it gets ugly north of this,it's actually in Winnipeg.:lol:

Grow up? Im trying to add to the discussion of what I deem to be a very important part of Canada and you just want to argue.
Your probably one of the peeps that wants heavy icebreakers up there also for god know what reason.

You make claims but you can't back them up. Almost everything you say is anecdote and not everyone has the same experiences that you do. You said there are no trees in the Arctic but you're simply wrong.
Perhaps it is your personal definition of Arctic. Whatever that may be, most people consider Arctic to mean something like this:

Region in the latitude range of about 60ºN to about 75ºN, centred about the Arctic Circle, and sandwiched between the Subarctic and the Polar regions.

- www.yukoncollege.yk.ca/~agraham/nost202/nostopedia.htm

 

[L Gilbert]

They are our best customer when it comes to U3 O8. The city of Lights as well big portion of EU is lit by Canadian uranium. Same goes for Asia.

There is big money to be made for the UFOs (Unemployed From Ontario) if they can handle a thicker parka.

There is a massive iron ore development that will employ close to 2500 people opening soon. That is just one of hundreds of ore bodies sitting in waiting.

Making friends with America won't do **** against the Russians who are 75 years ahead of the game in Aortic research and development in industry and military.

Corn fed Americans and their military built for fighting in sand don't have a hope in hell of operating up there. American hydraulic aircraft and tanks don't work so well even at -20C.

A Blackhawk can't even operate in the northern US states in winter.

So making friends with Russia to stop worrying about Russia is the best solution.

Why not just be friendly with anyone?

 

[Lou Garu]

Why not just be friendly with anyone?

I agree with your sentiment ,L Gilbert, but with either friends/or friendly , you still need to draw a line in the sand. "Thus far and No farther"
Both the U.S. and Russians have a poor record (historically) with friendship when economic/military/political expediency considerations come into play.
Not that I say they are bad.....but after several years of Putin and the same with Bush....things are subject to change.
I believe that was once one of the major reasons that there was a push to entice southerners (Canadian ) to the Yukon ,because our "friends" were so close.........

 

[AnnaG]

I agree with your sentiment ,L Gilbert, but with either friends/or friendly , you still need to draw a line in the sand. "Thus far and No farther"
Both the U.S. and Russians have a poor record (historically) with friendship when economic/military/political expediency considerations come into play.
Not that I say they are bad.....but after several years of Putin and the same with Bush....things are subject to change.
I believe that was once one of the major reasons that there was a push to entice southerners (Canadian ) to the Yukon ,because our "friends" were so close.........

Well, yeah. I don't think Les meant be gullible or a pushover. lol And "friendly" doesn't necessarily mean "be friends with" either.

 

[Lou Garu]

Well, yeah. I don't think Les meant be gullible or a pushover. lol And "friendly" doesn't necessarily mean "be friends with" either.

I never thought he was a pushover Anna,but I think what I said narrowed the rhetoric some. (and maybe some of the heat ?). I for one find the topic of interest if not the drek so much,

 

[AnnaG]

I never thought he was a pushover Anna,but I think what I said narrowed the rhetoric some. (and maybe some of the heat ?).

I guess.

I for one find the topic of interest if not the drek so much,

Drek?

 

[Lou Garu]

I guess. Drek?

Too much Science Fiction in my formative years , from Farscape series , means much the same as crap ( very loosely )

 

[AnnaG]

Too much Science Fiction in my formative years , from Farscape series , means much the same as crap ( very loosely )

oohhh Sorry. I think it's fun to fling a little now & then, although I only do it figuratively now. Used to do it literally as a kid with horse pucks.