Belinda Stronach appointed to Cabinet

Andygal

Electoral Member
May 13, 2005
518
0
16
BC
RE: Belinda Stronach appo

Belinda was right when she said that Harper was "Out of touch with Canadians". He clearly either has no clue, or doesn't care, what the public thinks.

And my dad has told me that the NDP have moved somewhat towards the center in recent times, they used to be very left wing, now they are more moderate. At least that's what HE said, I don't know for sure myself.

I'd say that they are the only viable option left among the major parties, the other 3 are made of crooks, power-hungry coroperate sharks, religious radicals, and separatists. Not good choices.

And the NDP are the only ones that have maintained civilry and tried to get something done, instead of the huge waste of time and money the Conservatives and the Bloc have been engaged in.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
Not only that, Andy...they are they only party without any former PCs. :D

And my dad has told me that the NDP have moved somewhat towards the center in recent times, they used to be very left wing, now they are more moderate. At least that's what HE said, I don't know for sure myself.

That's kind of true. They were further to the left in the 70's and early 80's. The entire political spectrum was further to the left during that period though.

The NDP's present stance is actually very close to where it was when it first formed...socially progressive within balanced budgets. Tommy Douglas never ran a deficit as premier of Saskatchewan for instance, he even put off instituting full health care because the money wasn't there.
 

S-Ranger

Nominee Member
Mar 12, 2005
96
0
6
South Ontario, Toronto District
Interestingly strange. The reaction.

Is there no one from urban Ontario on this site?

The federal confederates ran a $23 billion "fiscal gap" in transfers to the other 9 provinces per capita as opposed to what Ontario got back out of its own taxes (as always) last fiscal year.

It's not hearsay, they're not Ontario numbers they're confederate numbers and everything that has looked into it has agreed or found the number to be even higher.

SO. Ontario's moronic premier, Liberal no less (by default, and hated), brought it up, many months ago, before all of this crap, to his "liberal" (small l, very small, they should take the name Progressive Conservative Party of Canada now that MacKay has screwed that only other alternative up) cousins on confederate mound and they snubbed the premier of Ontario, to say the least, over perhaps getting a puny $4-$5 billion of our own taxes back to narrow one fiscal year of transfer payment rip offs to Ontario, as usual, as always. And don't go clicking on this: :roll: without facts after the confederate liberals cut a check to NL for $2 billion overnight because its -2% GDP, premier and all seven NL mp's threw temper tantrums over the law.

$2 billion, that's 2,000 million dollars, amounts to $3,868.47 per capita in NL. And what was the money for? What account will it be stuck into by the confederates? Even more equalization welfare handouts from south Ontario taxpayers?

$5 billion of Ontario's own taxes back, a pittance of the $23 billion ripped off in one fiscal year amounts to $403.46 per capita (July 1, 2004 pp, http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/demo31a.htm).

Belinda Stronach is an MP from Ontario. And from south Ontario and when Martin refused to even meet with Ontario's premier to even discuss the $23 billion rip off, Stronach agreed to take it up with the "conservative" (around what?) reform-alliance party.

She did and didn't get an answer she liked. The Reverend Harper is totally clueless (has to be, his support is rural not urban) around Toronto, the GTA, urban south Ontario, Montreal, urban south Quebec, Metro Vancouver never voted a single "alliance" (of what?) MP in and Ontario was out for blood in the last election. But over its provincial Liberals with a big fat red capital L, not the confederate liberals, who might as well take the name Progressive Conservative Party of Canada over MacKay's stupidity.

But even aside from being completely pissed at the Ontario Liberal Party, capital red L, breaking two laws, breeching a contract they signed with the Canadian Taxpayers Federation and waved about, breaking over 100 campaign promises before they even took office, the average of many polls showed that 90% of Ontarians had no clue who Stephen Harper was and over 75% had no clue what the "Reform" or "Alliance" were.

They were such dopes that they never got any coverage in Ontario other than when they were unusually stupid. Insert proper language if you like, such as "politically challenged" or whatever: They had no clue what they were doing around south Ontario and made fools of themselves. And still do.

Around our wonderful 900 year-old elected parliamentary dictatorships, nothing could be done about the premier (of some thing called "Ontario" that might as well be ten provinces) and finance minister of "Ontario" breaking two laws after swearing oaths to the Almighty Lieutenant Governor (who did what today? No cheating, don't look it up, what's her name let alone what did she do today; or he if it's a he, as though anyone has a care or clue) to uphold the laws of Ontario and Canada. The [Ontario] Conservative opposition (by default of Eerie Eves) recommended that Ontarians write to the real opposition, the media, to express their outrage.

Wow. What a great "democracy". Write to the media, who'd have thunk it? What's next, "Just Say No?" And then the elected dictatorship will do what, just step down? "We can't take the media on, we must resign." Uh huh.

But the big bad Lieutenant Governor did .... absolutely nothing. S/he/it was sworn magical Royal Oaths by the whole cabinet. They spake and did say, "We shall uphold the laws of Ontario and Canada, so help us ..." and then they cracked up, "We WON, get out of the way you stupid fool," and the Lieutant Governor lit a cigar and poured him/her/itself a glass of brandy and put its feet up on the $10,000 desk and did grin saying, "Wow. What a cool job." Then it booked a trip to Tahiti for a mere $50,000 to um, "Do that thing you hired me for." Then it said "Ta."

Then the federal election happened and every single vote in Ontario that went to the Harperites would have gone to the real Conservative Party of Canada had MacKay not turned into the most oblivious fool in history. Had "Canadian Alliance" been on the ballots, no one in Ontario would have voted for them in protest votes against their provincial Liberals taken out on the federal liberals. They would have voted for the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada not the leader of the western Canadas that no one had a clue about.

I know it, Stronach knows it, anyone who follows politics at all in Ontario knows it. [Aside from the bit about the Lieutenant Governor, which I made up but it's probably true. It's worthless, it did nothing, so dump it.] MacKay was too much of an idiot (which means "politically challenged" not a REAL idiot, just a political one) to win but it wasn't about winning, it was nothing but a protest vote (as in Quebec, but to the Bloc thanks to the MacKay: Quebec vote for a rural Stampeder who doesn't even know how racist, disriminatory and sexist he is? ) against provincial Liberals in both provinces. It had nothing to do with voting for The Reverend Harper at all.

Stronach took up the $23 billion rip off of Ontario in one fiscal year, certainly not the first one but we're getting a bit tired of this crap, particularly when checks for almost $3 billion were cut to NL and NS over absolutely nothing, for no reason at all, and now the NL government has over $2,000 more per capita of our own tax dollars than the Ontario government has to spend on its own budgets and Ontario citizens, which is just not how things work around equalization welfare handouts given that Ontario pays for 100% of them.

The Reverend Harper would not support the budget, which is finally, slowly, far too slowly for Ontario but it's better than the kick in the teeth Harper has promised, getting some of Ontario's own tax money back to where it belongs -- in Ontario.

Stronach told Ontario's premier, she's from south Ontario not Saskatchewan, that she'd be happy to take the issue up with Harper and Harper screwed up so she'll now be happy to take it up with Martin.

Not to mention that the "conservative" reform-alliance party is aligning with the Bloc to try to play its pathetic political games over a budget that "even" Albertans want to pass.

Do explain why the budget shouldn't pass. Backloadeded corporate tax cuts to the biggest corporations around, leaving the real businesses that create most of the jobs, medium-small with their tax cuts?

Money to not allow people to die due to tax plundering?

Leaving the confederate feds with billions of dollars in over-taxation (from south Ontario and south Quebec and sort of Alberta) instead of giving it back to the cities the money came from, directly, bypassing their worthless (certainly in Ontario) provincial feds? Didn't The Reverend Harper scream and cry about that too?

What hasn't he screamed and cried about? And now he's going to line up with the Bloc Quebecois for purely selfish reasons to try to defeat a budget that most Canadians want to pass, so that he can get voted out in the Speech From the Toilet [Throne]? It's a confidence vote and he wouldn't even get past that if by some fluke of political history, Stephen Harper actually ended up with a minority government and no friends to work with, as they stated before the last election, the Bloc and the NDP. The PC's, I mean 'liberals', go without saying when the "conservative" reform-alliance "representatives" of themselves, are stupid enough to vote against this budget.
 

no1important

Time Out
Jan 9, 2003
4,125
0
36
57
Vancouver
members.shaw.ca
RE: Belinda Stronach appo

I just heard on the radio -The Reverend Harper is going to support budget now, but will try to bring them down on an amendment. Why not just bring him down or try to on the budget? one of unsure mind

What a turn around. Does he even know what he is doing? I can see it more clearly why she left, for the Liberals now.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Belinda Stronach appo

I think Harper has gone off the deep end. MPs under RCMP investigation, top people crossing the floor...the stress is getting to him.

I think he was cracked before, but now he's broken.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Belinda Stronach appo

He's trying to defeat the budget and bring down the government without being seen to defeat the budget and bring the government down.

Hearn and Doyle must be closer to jumping ship than anybody guessed.

Harper is also going back on his word again. He's saying that he'll bring the government down before summer recess if he possibly can.

I wonder why he's so desperate? Is something big going to break badly for the Conservatives before November?
 

passpatoo

Electoral Member
Aug 29, 2004
128
0
16
Algoma
Saw Belinda on the National tonight. She looked much older than she did this morning. I think she's had a long day.
 

PHANTOMPHOENIX

New Member
May 17, 2005
7
0
1
S-Ranger pretty much summed up the Ontario position.

Alot of people are obvious unaware of the importance Stronach held for the conservative party in ontario.

She represented a chance for the Conservatives to make inroads into Ontario.

The polls in ontario this past week before the Stronach debacle:
Liberals: 40%
Conservatives: 32%

Hopefully I recalled those numbers properly.

Those aren't good numbers for Conservatives.


As far as not representing her conservative support in her riding...

She won only by about 600 votes....that was WITH her huge profile in that community. There are a substantial number of people in the riding that support HER and not the party she represents. By switching sides she will take more than the measley 600 votes she won by to the liberal side.

Ontarians see Harper as a westerner and only see the liberals as a party that can possibly represent them. Ontarians are hoping that the liberals need for support will force the liberals into a more ontarian position.

I think the liberals need to clean up their image though...and one way to do that is for some new blood. I think Dryden should become a more prominent individual in the party. I doubt Dryden has much tainted to him considering he has only been in the political light since the last election. Plus, Quebec might support a prime minister who played for the montreal canadians. :roll:
 

S-Ranger

Nominee Member
Mar 12, 2005
96
0
6
South Ontario, Toronto District
Re: RE: Belinda Stronach appo

Reverend Blair said:
He's trying to defeat the budget and bring down the government without being seen to defeat the budget and bring the government down.

Hearn and Doyle must be closer to jumping ship than anybody guessed.

:) It's truly bizarre. Just looking at what you wrote above, "How stupid does he think we are?" comes to mind. "He" (CPC strategists, acting coaches, script writers, make-up artists, the usual around political parties but this one needs a new producer and director) can only (try to, the numbers aren't looking like it'll happen, without the impact of Stronach defecting, which has to have a lof of PC minds spinning) bring down "the government", which is not how it will be seen, by voting down a budget that the majority of Candians want to pass.

And Ontario (south) is apparently the Ohio battleground state, the PC's, I mean 'liberals' and "conservative" reform-alliance aren't going to get any votes that matter out of south Quebec, and the Montreal area wants the budget to pass, Ontario wants the Gomery enquiry to finish and we already have a date set for the next election; after Gomery reports the facts, because there's quite a lot of conflicted testimony.

So it's just a vote for the budget and most Canadians want to see it pass, if any of the myriad polls are correct.

So Harper and minions are going to line up with the Bloc to try to vote down a budget, to crash the government ... after their star MP in sout Ontario leaves her boyfriend and defects to the PC's, I mean liberals?

They can't "hide" what's already exposed.

Reverend Blair said:
Harper is also going back on his word again. He's saying that he'll bring the government down before summer recess if he possibly can.

Surprise, surprise. With no offense to you, Rev, The Reverend Harper has been a contradiction for his entire life. His "career" is a mixed up as the reform, reform-alliance, alliance-reform, "Canadian" alliance (uh huh), "conservative" reform-alliance mess is.

Reverend Blair said:
I wonder why he's so desperate? Is something big going to break badly for the Conservatives before November?

The corrupt liberals, with their corrupt budget, finally getting some of that surplus money back into the provinces, will corrupt more corruption ... and the sqeaky clean, totally trustworthy Reverend Harper is going to "sweep house" by lining up with the Bloc to try to bring down the budget. :?:
 

S-Ranger

Nominee Member
Mar 12, 2005
96
0
6
South Ontario, Toronto District
Re: RE: Belinda Stronach appo

no1important said:
I just heard on the radio -The Reverend Harper is going to support budget now, but will try to bring them down on an amendment. Why not just bring him down or try to on the budget? one of unsure mind

What a turn around. Does he even know what he is doing? I can see it more clearly why she left, for the Liberals now.

This is the kicker from the link you provided (from everyone I've heard from anyway):

"We'll oppose Bill C-48, which was the deal with the NDP, which is complete irresponsible fiscal policy," Harper added.

Complete[ly] irresponsible fiscal policy? We all know that (have to be careful just stating "The Reverend" due to the real one, well the so-named one on this site, who I might vote for if not for) The Reverend Harper has been complaining about the billions of dollars the confederates are holding in surplus, which is okay fiscal policy if they have a reason for it, see a downturn in the economy coming and don't trust the provinces with the money, which was a strike against the new Progressive Conservative Party of Canada. They really need to dump that liberal business, because they're not liberal.

What is fiscally irresponsible? The "conservative" reform-alliance party knows, and I hope everyone knows, that most of the proposed spending this budget is backloaded over periods of five years and up to forty years. But the CPC is trying to make it look like the money wasn't just reallocated (even for this fiscal year) from keeping our money instead of putting some of it (quite a lot into NL while ripping Saskatchewan off, over the exact same issue; the price of oil and SK doesn't have light W. Texas crude, its oil is quite heavy and costs a lot of money to harvest) and no "extra" money is being spent.

Nothing that matters and Harper could score more points around that, stating that it's not new money that's going to be pouring into provinces in this fiscal year and that most of it is backloaded (to come, over many years, which Harper also complained about; before) along with the feds keeping too much money in surplus instead of "cutting taxes" but tax cuts aren't what most urban areas need -- now. They need cash so that people don't die. It takes time for tax cuts to trickle down and maybe expand economic growth in the poorer provinces, maybe not, but why would Alberta care about that?

Real economists with lots of experience have analyzed the shifting of priorities away from tax cuts to the wealthiest corporations (still backloaded) and surplus money and economic growth prospects and have all stated that it's a total joke that this budget will put much of a dent in the federal surplus let alone run a deficit.

Harper is counting on ignorance. He thinks that he can just say anything and that people will swallow it an he may be right around rural areas where most of his support is, but not around urban areas. And they happen to have the most seats due to population density and happen to pay out the most in revenues to the feds as well.

He's creating an urban/rural war while joining up with the Bloc Quebecois. And he thinks that this is what Canadians want, while insulting their intelligence?

I don't understant the strategy, but now Harper is becoming Mr. Dithers.
 

davyth

New Member
May 18, 2005
1
0
1
www.davidshort.com
I am disgusted that the liberal party has accepted Belinda Stronach into a cabinet position, let alone a membership. She should have been told to run as an independent until after the next election. The liberals, and Mr Martin in particular, has shown that politics is not about the people, but about playing games. There are no ethics! Accepting a turncoat and opportunist like Belinda does no credit to the Liberal Party - in fact the opposite.

No doubt this comment is blowing in the wind and will be ignored. Never mind, there are many. many people who feel as I do!
 

Numure

Council Member
Apr 30, 2004
1,063
0
36
Montréal, Québec
Reverend Blair said:
The higher the dollar is, the more money you make. Most of Quebec's exports are hydro-electricity or related to cheap hydro, aren't they? It's not like your customers can just go elsewhere.

Alot of our manufacturing plants will close because they lost their advantage, a low dollard. Just in my région, Alcan will close possibly 2 Plants (5000 workers) if nothing changes soon, though thatisnt the only reason. The current climate between Charest and the Unions are scaring big business. Same with Abitibi-Consol, that already closed one paper mill in the region, and might close a few others.

We export, ALOT more then just hydro.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
I am disgusted that the liberal party has accepted Belinda Stronach into a cabinet position, let alone a membership. She should have been told to run as an independent until after the next election. The liberals, and Mr Martin in particular, has shown that politics is not about the people, but about playing games. There are no ethics! Accepting a turncoat and opportunist like Belinda does no credit to the Liberal Party - in fact the opposite.

It looks very much like Stronach was looking for a way out of Harper's party, so David Peterson brokered a deal. It's certainly a boost for the Liberals, but more importantly it's a major setback for the Conservatives. She was their token moderate, the face they put out there when they wanted to prove they were electable in Ontario. For her to shut them down like this is going to hurt, especially in the 905 area code that the Conservatives so covet.



Alot of our manufacturing plants will close because they lost their advantage, a low dollard. Just in my région, Alcan will close possibly 2 Plants (5000 workers) if nothing changes soon, though thatisnt the only reason. The current climate between Charest and the Unions are scaring big business. Same with Abitibi-Consol, that already closed one paper mill in the region, and might close a few others.

We export, ALOT more then just hydro.

AlCan is there because of the Hydro though. If they shut down the plants, why not have the workers take them over? The real issue is unions. The corporations want them gone. AlCan would love to stay in Quebec, but pay wages like they do in Mexico. They also wouldn't have to meet so many environmental regulations there. You can't compete with that no matter how low the dollar is...you'd have to adopt the peso.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Reverend Blair said:
It looks very much like Stronach was looking for a way out of Harper's party, so David Peterson brokered a deal.

Remember a few weeks ago when the Conservatives were suggesting that the Liberals were calling their members and offering them senate positions? It looks like the one offered the cabinet post took the bait.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Belinda Stronach appo

Stronach is not somebody that would spring to mind for that though. She was too high up in the party and dating Peter MacKay. I don't think they would have approached her...she looked like too much of an untouchable.

I think it likely happened pretty much as described...she mentioned it to Peterson (an old friend by all accounts) and he saw an opportunity and set the gears in motion.

I doubt they approached Inky Mark too. He doesn't exactly have a reputation as being open-minded, or even reasonable. More likely they approached some less well known back-benchers...the kind of people who are low enough down that they can be encouraged with fairly small favours.