B.C. School teachers - What would be fair?
- Thread starter JLM
- Start date
Politicians play a short game. You get out of your tax payer base what you've invested in it. Larger class sizes, failing to keep teachers wages and benefits on par with other sectors, means that the product the education system is turning out will steadily decrease in value. As this happens, your tax base decreases in value, so you raise class sizes, fail to keep up with wages, and the product the education system is turning out will steadily decrease in value. As this happens, your tax base decreases in value, so you raise class sizes, fail to keep up with wages, and the product the education system is turning out will steadily decrease in value. As this happens, your tax base decreases in value, so you raise class sizes, fail to keep up with wages, and the product the education system is turning out will steadily decrease in value. As this happens, your tax base decreases in value, so you raise class sizes, fail to keep up with wages, and the product... well, you get my drift.
Truer words were never spoken... However....
There has to be a form of measure to determine what the expected outputs need to be to justify the inputs. The private sector analysis is easy, but the public sector is more tricky.
Understanding that the public sector provides essential services that may be difficult or impossible to measure in tangible terms, the equation gets more complicated when the public sector is the only player in the game (ie. healthcare - kinda). How can anyone truly determine what is standard if there is no real measuring stick for comparison?
A provincial curriculum designed to meet trade, college, and/or university standards upon exiting, with standardized testing to ensure that schools are following said curriculum, seems like a pretty successful system of measurement. I won't disagree about the importance of an assortment of learning paths available to students, but BC has private schools so I don't qite understand your point.
Doesn't the main "measuring stick" lie in the taxpayers ability to pay? There is something wrong when people earning $30,000 are being taxed to the hilt to pay people making upward of $70,000. The gap between rich and poor continues to widen. Just like when the minimum wage goes up $1 the C.P.O.'s wage goes up $10.
I think the biggest part of the issue is that politicians are paying themselves first. They're not investing in the long game that would naturally pay them well, instead they're making the top of the pyramid heavy, while undermining the base. But that's not the teachers' faults. Disallowing them pay because politicians took too much makes no sense. That's for the politicians to be accountable for.
I hear you loud and clear, Karrie, Perhaps they are all a bunch of F******g babies! :lol:
How about paying teachers the politicians' salaries and paying the politicians the teachers'salaries. Seems fair to me.
Yup. That's at least part of the problem.
Unfortunately those of us that were born here and need to earn a living are outnumbered by rich retirees from elsewhere and looney lefties. Neither group want to see any economic activity that might impact their desire to do nothing but play.
Because the BCTF likes none of the above yardsticks. They don't even like handing out ribbons at sports day because the kids that didn't win might have their feelings hurt. They have lowered our education standards to the lowest common denominator where the poor learners are coddled and the best and brightest are left to their own devices. Worse they have managed to convince the parents of every kid that they can label "special needs" that it is their right to have special teachers and assistants for each kid.At the highest pay in Canada with 2 weeks paid vacation when Great aunt Marthas budgie dies or anyone they know has a cold.. Not a single care about the taxpayer.
taxslave;1555248 Because the BCTF likes none of the above yardsticks. They don't even like handing out ribbons at sports day because the kids that didn't win might have their feelings hurt. They have lowered our education standards to the lowest common denominator where the poor learners are coddled and the best and brightest are left to their own devices. Worse they have managed to convince the parents of every kid that they can label "special needs" that it is their right to have special teachers and assistants for each kid.At the highest pay in Canada with 2 weeks paid vacation when Great aunt Marthas budgie dies or anyone they know has a cold.. Not a single care about the taxpayer.[/QUOTE said:
This is what you get when you illegally tear up contracts when you first come to office,
as Gordon Campbell did. The teachers are going back and trying to get what they had
years ago. I agree 15% is too much right now. Cost of living is realistic but the Liberals
did an end around by agreeing in other contracts that if anyone gets a raise, all contracts
can be reopened.
I do think the teachers are right in many ways but not all things. The problem is what went
before and now the kids are taking sides and they are on the teachers side. Ask many in
communities, they are evenly split on the issue.
The demand for better class sizes is good, the idea of compassionate leave is not to the
point they are asking. The problem is when you are bargaining with slippery people like the
Liberal Government that has demonstrated they don't even have respect for the law means
you have to be prepared to fight. This government spent like drunken sailors with their
cost plus contracts that means all construction ends up over budget. They handed out huge
tax breaks to the very rich and now they can't balance the books. They have raised fees
on almost everything while claiming they are keeping taxes down.
If I was a teacher, I wouldn't trust these people either, I would be asking for a lot to make up
for what the government stole, when they illegally cancelled contracts.
Both sides have to start over and come to some sane agreement. As for the strike? Its a
democracy and they have a right to strike. Having rights is not a problem for some, its when
they decide to exercise their rights, well that is different.
This is going to be another nail in the coffin of the BC Liberals.
as Gordon Campbell did. The teachers are going back and trying to get what they had
years ago. I agree 15% is too much right now. Cost of living is realistic but the Liberals
did an end around by agreeing in other contracts that if anyone gets a raise, all contracts
can be reopened.
I do think the teachers are right in many ways but not all things. The problem is what went
before and now the kids are taking sides and they are on the teachers side. Ask many in
communities, they are evenly split on the issue.
The demand for better class sizes is good, the idea of compassionate leave is not to the
point they are asking. The problem is when you are bargaining with slippery people like the
Liberal Government that has demonstrated they don't even have respect for the law means
you have to be prepared to fight. This government spent like drunken sailors with their
cost plus contracts that means all construction ends up over budget. They handed out huge
tax breaks to the very rich and now they can't balance the books. They have raised fees
on almost everything while claiming they are keeping taxes down.
If I was a teacher, I wouldn't trust these people either, I would be asking for a lot to make up
for what the government stole, when they illegally cancelled contracts.
Both sides have to start over and come to some sane agreement. As for the strike? Its a
democracy and they have a right to strike. Having rights is not a problem for some, its when
they decide to exercise their rights, well that is different.
This is going to be another nail in the coffin of the BC Liberals.
I don't normally agree with tearing up contracts and I think Campbell was on a slippery slope in doing so. But from what I can understand those contracts were imposed by the Dipper Gov't under Clark or Harcourt, and I know speaking for myself I would not be happy about paying off debt charged to me and imposed by someone else. I also condemn Campbell for the obscene raised to helped himself and his minions to. Perhaps if Christy Clark was to realize that would come back to haunt them on election day she would roll them back, but that is the only way I can see that happening. I think we have to look at the population as a whole and try to improve the lot of the poorest (working members, not the drones and parasites) first, and perhaps teachers should patiently await their turn. By the looks of the vehicles in the school parking lots I don't think they are starving.
The comparative measuring suggestion was directed more at measuring the effectiveness of the teachers in relation to all in the system, the premise being, those educators that are superior shouldn't be hand-cuffed by salary caps and those that are inferior are shown the door.
You live in AB and you've seen the job actions that went on for years withe the ATA - you could set your watch by it at one point. Since the AB gvt has started handing out more licenses for Charter schools (and private), there is a relative measuring device in place and you're seeing the nature of the ATA's beefs have evolved in response.
In this case and in my opinion, the BCTF is fronting egregious demands on many fronts, especially in this economic climate
You sound surprised... This is the same group that whines about other professions or sectors that make more money than them, but they absolutely refuse to assume any risk position and demand the rewards as if they have.
I have yet to see the day that the unions sign a document that would set their wage scales to a mechanism that would reflect opportunity for increases as well as decreases.
Grumpy: Of course the kids are going to take the teacher's side. Aside from the fact that the vast majority of teachers are dippers and have been indoctrinating kids since daycare guess who decides on the marks kids need to get into university.
I have had talks with teachers that do not toe the party line and they are afraid to speak their minds because of reprisals by their so called union.
I have had talks with teachers that do not toe the party line and they are afraid to speak their minds because of reprisals by their so called union.
The primary if not sole concern of the B.C.T.F. is their own longevity. (And I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn for anyone who believes otherwise) :lol:
Considering the quality of many of the grads I think we have already proven the education system is a failure. After 12 years in school they haven't even figured out that it is important to show up at starting time or fill out a time card every day. Sometimes I wonder who taught them how to dress for work too.
While I see some kids today with a good attitude, I see others whose sole concern seems to be doing what suits them!
Oh! Heaven forbid that someone do what they want to do. Is it a human's place in society to do the bidding of the majority of the sheeple? Is a protestant work ethic the end all and be all for everyone? Sooner or later, kids will figure out whether they want to participate in the Matrix or not. With a little life experience under their belts, they either decide to join or leave permanently. I think that is what freedom is about. To force everybody to accept the status quo is a form of tyranny I would not accept myself.... Oh, I didn't.