Autism 'begins long before birth'
- Thread starter Twila
- Start date
The only ones I see not showing any "doubts" are the ones, like you, that support the idea that vaccines are not a possible contributing factor in some ASD's. That vaccines are perfectly safe for everyone.
Never said that. You did. Your jejeune attempts to put words in my mouth are a hoot! Keep it up!
You're right of course. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. That being said, the causal relationship isn't evident. It doesn't hold up, and the only reason this is even a line of questioning is because a fraudulent doctor with financial interests published a now fully debunked/discredited study.
Of course now we have to continue spending large sums of money trying to find a link, but so far it's bupkis. In the meantime, with no supporting evidence to back up the purported link, parents in an age where you can be a google 'expert' in anything, or find one somewhere (in web forums like this one no less), are ignoring the expert advice of doctors. Children are dying, as diseases that my grandparents feared and I have never seen are coming back.
As far as safety goes, for most people the health risks of the disease are far greater than any risk from immunization. But you're right Gerry, that's not true for all kids. For the ones that can't be immunized, they rely on the herd immunity supplied by those who can and do get immunized.
Evidence that the physiological changes are taking place during development in the fetus will need to be followed up of course. The genetic basis may lead to some more concrete results, and hopefully we can turn the corner on this topic.
If this lead were to prove correct, it might also lead to other discoveries related to brain development. Or lead in the correct direction of research.
but Ton, for the very reason you have stated, (a fraudulent doctor who published with an agenda of financial interest) science can not always be trusted to present in the best interest of the public at all times. The public can not be expected to discern "agendas" thus it becomes a dilemma. It's like Pavlov's dogs. Ringing of the bell intermittently produces the best behavioral reinforcement.
I don't place 100% faith in what I read from scientific sources because I have researched a lot over the years on nutrition and have altered my diet accordingly. Bottom line is, what is good today, is not so good tomorrow. What was poison yesterday (egg yolks for example) changes now because they understand it DOES produce cholesterol BUT the good kind that eats the bad kind.
I have to tell you, after doing so for this many years, I go by what my body tells me regardless of whether or not science validates it. Yes I use the scientific studies but merely as a starting point, because we simply don't know.
What is considered good science today may tomorrow be proven to be bad science leading to death tomorrow.
We are young at this game.
The outcome never rests on one publication. We see this all the time with media coverage. Something on the bleeding edge of what science can achieve, and people think it's the end of the story. It never is. But by the time something is known with a high degree of confidence, they aren't publishing those results in the New York Times.
The incidence of fraud is very low, and when you have multiple investigators, confirming results with different data sets, using different methodologies, well then you're building a body of work that is credible. Before Wakefield's Lancet publication was officially retracted, his results had failed replication with numerous other investigators. That's how science works. Of course that's not how the Jenny McCarthy's of the world work. Nor is it how the popular press works.
Scientists are humans; there is no such thing as a system involving humans that is infallible. I start out from the position that most are not out to 'get' me. When something doesn't smell right, it's time to dig. That's just how I choose to live.
and that's what McCarthy did, and it's what my wife did when our perfectly healthy 12 month old suddenly became the baby in the bubble after getting his 12 month shots. So, I guess this means only you are allowed to queation when something "doesn't smell right". Is this because YOU are a "scientist" and the rest of us just "ordinary" "uneducated" people?
Thalidomide
Dr. Andrew Wakefield reveals real story behind vaccines, autism ...
Apr 10, 2012 ... Dr. Andrew Wakefield: Absolutely, in the High Court in the UK, the long ... and he was completely and utterly exonerated in the high court.
www.naturalnews.com/035513_Andrew_Wakefield_vaccines_autism.html
Doctor from MMR controversy wins High Court appeal - next up, Dr ...
Mar 15, 2012 ... Since GMC's handling of the entire case has been proven fraudulent, it is now Dr. Wakefield's turn to be exonerated. Mr. Justice Mitting's ...
www.naturalnews.com/035256_Professor_Walker-Smith_MMR_vaccines_ High_Court.html
Apr 10, 2012 ... Dr. Andrew Wakefield: Absolutely, in the High Court in the UK, the long ... and he was completely and utterly exonerated in the high court.
www.naturalnews.com/035513_Andrew_Wakefield_vaccines_autism.html
Doctor from MMR controversy wins High Court appeal - next up, Dr ...
Mar 15, 2012 ... Since GMC's handling of the entire case has been proven fraudulent, it is now Dr. Wakefield's turn to be exonerated. Mr. Justice Mitting's ...
www.naturalnews.com/035256_Professor_Walker-Smith_MMR_vaccines_ High_Court.html
Tonnington debunked
Our son has autism. I do not believe it was caused by vaccines, however, "Brain Encephalopathies" are listed & have been documented as possible severe "side effect" of some immunizations. I know many parents that have kids with autism. Most do not attribute the disorder to immunizations. However, there are several that have very scary convincing stories that suggest a direct and immediate effect from vaccination. They have similar accounts - kid gets immunized, high fever, ER visit, immediate change in behavior & all within 12-24 hours of getting vaccinated. I think it will be far off into the future before we figure out the cause & cure. Pharms will never admit to wrong doing. Docs don't want to be sued. FDA doesn't want to get sued & then there are the parents desperately looking for reasons. It is all a hot mess.
Nice try dim rodent. That court case was the quashing of a personal misconduct finding against John Walker-Smith. The same professor who told Wakefield in a letter that it was inappropriate to emphasize the role of the MMR vaccine, and that patients should continue to receive the MMR vaccine until more firm evidence is found.
Wakefield, papers retracted, fraudulent activities documented and published, and license to practice revoked. Only in Bizarro world where up is down and dim rodent is bright primate is what you posted a debunking.
Come on beaver...it's in the decision...do you ever read the source documents? If you continue to rely on crank blogs, you're going to continue to be ignorant.
Anyways, here you go Seabiscuit:
The decision
The quote:
Between 21st July 1996 and 16th February 1997 eleven children were admitted to the Malcolm Ward at the Royal Free Hospital for investigation under Professor Walker- Smith and his team. The case histories of those eleven children plus a twelfth child were subsequently summarised in a paper published in the Lancet under the heading “Early report ileal-lymphoid-nodular hyperplasia, non-specific colitis, and pervasive developmental disorder in children” on February 28th 1998. I will deal with the issues which arise out of the publication of that paper under the heading “The Lancet Paper” below. At a press conference, which Professor Walker-Smith did not attend, convened to accompany publication, Dr. Wakefield stated publicly the view which he had previously expressed privately to Professor Walker-Smith that he could no longer support the giving of MMR vaccine. The joint view of Professor Walker-Smith and Dr. Murch, stated in a letter to Dr. Wakefield on 21st January 1998, was that it was inappropriate to emphasize the role of MMR vaccine in publicity about the paper and that they supported government policy concerning MMR until more firm evidence was available for them to see for themselves. They published a press release to coincide with publication stating their support for “present public health policy concerning MMR”. Dr. Wakefield’s statement and subsequent publicity had a predictable adverse effect upon the take up of MMR vaccine of great concern to those responsible for public health. There is now no respectable body of opinion which supports his hypothesis, that MMR vaccine and autism/enterocolitis are causally linked.
As time marches on, we're learning more and more.
Autism genes activate during fetal brain development -- ScienceDaily
A bit clumsy in that fourth paragraph. Basically the number of copies someone has of a CNV correlates with their phenotype, eg. more copies = bigger head, or fewer copies = less resistant to HIV.
Autism genes activate during fetal brain development -- ScienceDaily
The researchers studied a set of well-known autism mutations called copy number variants or CNVs. They investigated when and where the genes were expressed during brain development. "One surprising thing that we immediately observed was that different CNVs seemed to be turned on in different developmental periods," said Iakoucheva.
Specifically, the scientists noted that one CNV located in a region of the genome known as 16p11.2, contained genes active during the late mid-fetal period. Ultimately, they identified a network of genes that showed a similar pattern of activation including KCTD13 within 16p11.2 and CUL3, a gene from a different chromosome that is also mutated in children with autism.
"The most exciting moment for us was when we realized that the proteins encoded by these genes form a complex that regulates the levels of a third protein, RhoA," said Iakoucheva. Rho proteins play critical roles in neuronal migration and brain morphogenesis at early stages of brain development. "Suddenly, everything came together and made sense."
Further experiments confirmed that CUL3 mutations disrupt interaction with KCTD13, suggesting that 16p11.2 CNV and CUL3 may act via the same RhoA pathway. RhoA levels influence head and body size in zebrafish, a model organism used by geneticists to investigate gene functions. Children with 16p11.2 CNV also have enlarged or decreased head sizes and suffer from obesity or are underweight. "Our model fits perfectly with what we observe in the patients," said Guan Ning Lin, PhD, a fellow in Iakoucheva's laboratory and co-first author with Roser Corominas, PhD.
Interestingly, the RhoA pathway has recently been implicated in a rare form of autism called Timothy syndrome, which is caused by the mutation in a completely different gene. "The fact that three different types of mutations may act via the same pathway is remarkable," said Iakoucheva. "My hope is that we would be able to target it therapeutically."
Specifically, the scientists noted that one CNV located in a region of the genome known as 16p11.2, contained genes active during the late mid-fetal period. Ultimately, they identified a network of genes that showed a similar pattern of activation including KCTD13 within 16p11.2 and CUL3, a gene from a different chromosome that is also mutated in children with autism.
"The most exciting moment for us was when we realized that the proteins encoded by these genes form a complex that regulates the levels of a third protein, RhoA," said Iakoucheva. Rho proteins play critical roles in neuronal migration and brain morphogenesis at early stages of brain development. "Suddenly, everything came together and made sense."
Further experiments confirmed that CUL3 mutations disrupt interaction with KCTD13, suggesting that 16p11.2 CNV and CUL3 may act via the same RhoA pathway. RhoA levels influence head and body size in zebrafish, a model organism used by geneticists to investigate gene functions. Children with 16p11.2 CNV also have enlarged or decreased head sizes and suffer from obesity or are underweight. "Our model fits perfectly with what we observe in the patients," said Guan Ning Lin, PhD, a fellow in Iakoucheva's laboratory and co-first author with Roser Corominas, PhD.
Interestingly, the RhoA pathway has recently been implicated in a rare form of autism called Timothy syndrome, which is caused by the mutation in a completely different gene. "The fact that three different types of mutations may act via the same pathway is remarkable," said Iakoucheva. "My hope is that we would be able to target it therapeutically."
A bit clumsy in that fourth paragraph. Basically the number of copies someone has of a CNV correlates with their phenotype, eg. more copies = bigger head, or fewer copies = less resistant to HIV.
lol 
I heard Dr. Wakefield on the radio and he said that the issue was the MMR vaccine only. He said he has NEVER said not to get the measles vaccine. He said that the MMR vaccine was dangerous and potentially caused autism-like symptoms. He said the issue was combining the mumps and measles vaccine which can have a negative result.
He's not against vaccination - in fact he encourages it. But he encourages people to get the measles only vaccine and not the combination. However, it is almost impossible if not impossible to get it because it only comes in a combination MMR which is what he's fighting against - that specific vaccine.
He's not against vaccination - in fact he encourages it. But he encourages people to get the measles only vaccine and not the combination. However, it is almost impossible if not impossible to get it because it only comes in a combination MMR which is what he's fighting against - that specific vaccine.