Arizona's Immigration Law

[Machjo]

True. Yet it might not be a matter of education alone. Surely in Mexico they have the Internet? Surely they have colleges and universities?

What if the people themselves are to blame? What then I ask? Of course if you want to spend billions of dollars setting up schools, you can fix these problems.

But it didn't work for Africa, and it won't work in Mexico.

As for Africa, Phillipson wrote a whole book on the subject in 1993. In most of ex-colonial Africa, schools teach in English or French, and often the student's knowledge of the language is still poor by the time he reaches high school, which thus inhibits his learning of the sciences. In Africa, it's common for public education to be taught in a language the pupils do not know well. In Mexico, of course we'd have to be smart enough not to repeat the mistakes of Africa, and education would have to be in the pupil's own mother tongue.

I'm not necessarily proposing that we fund their schools though, but merely that we open up our markets to trade so that Mexicans could have more business opportunities. Unfortunately too many nanny-statists want to prohibit trade and freer movement of labour. They do not want businesses to be free to hire whoever is most qualified for the job or to buy a product from the company that offers the best deal. We'd rather hire local and buy local no matter the cost.

 

[TenPenny]

I'm not necessarily proposing that we fund their schools though, but merely that we open up our markets to trade so that Mexicans could have more business opportunities. Unfortunately too many nanny-statists want to prohibit trade and freer movement of labour. They do not want businesses to be free to hire whoever is most qualified for the job or to buy a product from the company that offers the best deal. We'd rather hire local and buy local no matter the cost.

I thought that's why many of our cars and other items are built in Mexico now.

 

[FreeQuebec]

I'm not really bothered by ethnic/heritage demographic changes. And I don't see the kind of economic/societal upheavel you do.

Then you know nothing of history. Because whenever a ethnic change happens, so to does the political climate change.

 

[Machjo]

FreeQuebec wondered:

"The question though, is will America not have another civil war or break apart once Mexicans become majority in many states?"

Well, in my opinion, if the United States has the will and determination not to become another sorry, pathetic, poor and miserable country like Mexico, whose greatest export is its own miserable poor and pathetic people, they will protect their border, in order to keep unwanted trash ou, to the same extent as the former Communist countries have done to keep freedom-loving decent people in: land mines, watch towers, shoot first ask questions later.

If not, I weep for the United States. Sadly, under Obama, American national pride and desire to survive as Americans fall victim to political correctness.

One thing you have to realize too is that the 'Hispanic problem' in the US is nothing new. In those parts of the US annexed from Spain, such as Texas, California, etc. had Hispanic populations before the English-speakers settled there. Some of their descendants are alive today and I'm sure many of them have maintained their cultural ties over the years. So we have to be careful not to assume all Hispanics are immigrants. Some of them were there even before the English-speakers settled there.

 

[Machjo]

I thought that's why many of our cars and other items are built in Mexico now.

And if they can produce them cheaper and at the same quality, then why should they not be rewarded for it?Are you suggesting that we undermine their industry through trade barriers? So in other words, not only should we keep them out, but we must do all in our power to keep them poor too?

Honestly, I think its great that they have more industry there. I doubt many of their workers are among those scrambling across the border now, wouldn't you agree. That's precisely the way we'll stop illegal immigration. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If Canadian workers' salaries are over the top, then tough on them.

 

[FreeQuebec]

As for Africa, Phillipson wrote a whole book on the subject in 1993. In most of ex-colonial Africa, schools teach in English or French, and often the student's knowledge of the language is still poor by the time he reaches high school, which thus inhibits his learning of the sciences. In Africa, it's common for public education to be taught in a language the pupils do not know well. In Mexico, of course we'd have to be smart enough not to repeat the mistakes of Africa, and education would have to be in the pupil's own mother tongue.

You are honestly blaming that when the fact remains that the average IQ in much of Africa hovers around 80? Maybe the people are too stupid on average to learn? Why is it that when Europeans went into Africa, they were living in the stone age, when the rest of the world had moved on far beyond that? Maybe looking at history will help understand things better.

I'm not necessarily proposing that we fund their schools though, but merely that we open up our markets to trade so that Mexicans could have more business opportunities. Unfortunately too many nanny-statists want to prohibit trade and freer movement of labour. They do not want businesses to be free to hire whoever is most qualified for the job or to buy a product from the company that offers the best deal. We'd rather hire local and buy local no matter the cost.

I agree with hiring local and buying local, but not at any cost. I don't see Mexicans offering anything but unskilled labour to Canada (IE: picking fruit, mowing lawns, etc).

Anything else we can get better from India/Asia/Europe, if that is what your argument goes on.

 

[Icarus27k]

Then you know nothing of history. Because whenever a ethnic change happens, so to does the political climate change.

Still, I'm not really bothered by such changes. I am a white guy living in a majority black city that is becoming increasingly white after all. And I'm not really seeing the Armageddon.

 

[Machjo]

That's the thing. We don't want Mexicans crossing the border, but then whenever they do get an honest job, we want trade restrictions to take those jobs away from them. Fer cryin' out loud, make up yer minds already.

 

[FreeQuebec]

Still, I'm not really bothered by such changes. I am a white guy living in a majority black city that is becoming increasingly white after all. And I'm not really seeing the Armageddon.

That is one city. One city is not enough of an example to show changes. You can't tell me that if half of USA become majority Hispanic, it will be the same?

Ever heard of La Raza and what they want to accomplish? They want Whiteys like you out of USA, and back to Europe. And they have a lot of support by Mexican illegals. And if they become the majority, more likely then not, they will get their wish.

Ignore it if you will, but don't say I didn't warn you. Then again, Blacks and Whites are both despised by racist Mexican nationalists.

 

[FreeQuebec]

Here's some of their pictures. As they say, a picture says a thousand words.

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/aztlan-reconquista.gif

http://www.mayorno.com/files/aztmap.jpg

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/la-raza-get-out.gif

EDIT: SORRY about huge pictures. Just clink the links.

 

[Machjo]

You are honestly blaming that when the fact remains that the average IQ in much of Africa hovers around 80? Maybe the people are too stupid on average to learn? Why is it that when Europeans went into Africa, they were living in the stone age, when the rest of the world had moved on far beyond that? Maybe looking at history will help understand things better.

So are you suggesting that they're genetically inferior? So they never went through the industrial revolution until the European came. Fine. However, how well do you think Quebecers in central Canada would fare in the sciences if all their courses starting in high school had to be in English only? In Montreal, maybe they'd manage it, but in most of central Quebec, students would not even be able to follow the teachers. In Africa, those countries that do this are just plain stupid. You don't learn science when you can't understand the teacher well. But the elites of many African countries are still colonized psychologically, unlike in Japan, South Korea, etc. where maths and sciences are taught in the pupils' mother tongue.

I agree with hiring local and buying local, but not at any cost. I don't see Mexicans offering anything but unskilled labour to Canada (IE: picking fruit, mowing lawns, etc).

What about the industries that have moved to Mexico since NAFTA? My guess is that they've reduced illegal immigration at least somewhat. Do you want to remove that now?

Anything else we can get better from India/Asia/Europe, if that is what your argument goes on.[/QUOTE]

 

[TenPenny]

And if they can produce them cheaper and at the same quality, then why should they not be rewarded for it?Are you suggesting that we undermine their industry through trade barriers? So in other words, not only should we keep them out, but we must do all in our power to keep them poor too?

I'm confused. You said you think we need free trade with Mexico, so there are more opportunities there. I said that I thought we had it, and gave an example (cars, only one of many); now you're thinking that I don't want it? Where did you get that from? You think I'm in favour of trade barriers? What?

 

[YukonJack]

Machjo:

"One thing you have to realize too is that the 'Hispanic problem' in the US is nothing new. In those parts of the US annexed from Spain, such as Texas, California, etc. had Hispanic populations before the English-speakers settled there. Some of their descendants are alive today and I'm sure many of them have maintained their cultural ties over the years. So we have to be careful not to assume all Hispanics are immigrants. Some of them were there even before the English-speakers settled there."

First of all, what is "HISPANIC"? According to my dictionary, it is 'derived of Spain, spanish or Spanish-speaking countries; person of Hispanic descent.'

So, are the Mexican illegals even Hispanics? They are - in my opinion - Native people who happen to speak a bastardized version of the Spanish language.

Or perhaps, they are Latinos? Anything in common between Cicero and a tomato-picker?

Thru history peoples have been conquered and subjucated. It is high time that the so-called Hispanics realize that if they want to have what they want it is right there, in Mexico.

If they have any self-respect, they will stop insinuating themselves to where they are not wanted.

 

[Machjo]

I'm confused. You said you think we need free trade with Mexico, so there are more opportunities there. I said that I thought we had it, and gave an example (cars, only one of many); now you're thinking that I don't want it? Where did you get that from? You think I'm in favour of trade barriers? What?

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Too many here are opposed to it, so obviously you're among the minority like me.

 

[Icarus27k]

I'm pretty sure that's completely inaccurate about La Raza. La Raza is a very mainstream, respectable lobbying group on Latino issues,

 

[Icarus27k]

It's kind of like claiming the NAACP wants to overthrow the US government, which is completely ridiculous.

 

[TenPenny]

You are honestly blaming that when the fact remains that the average IQ in much of Africa hovers around 80? Maybe the people are too stupid on average to learn?

Can certainly tell that you're from Quebec, that attitude (blacks are stupid) is certainly common there. However, it's not really true.

In an oft-quoted literature study conducted in 2006, Lynn concluded that black Africans have an average IQ of less than 70 (compared to an average western IQ of 100). Lynn suggested that these low IQs are indicative of a low intelligence level, claiming this offered an explanation for the low level of economic development in sub-Saharan countries.
Lynn's study is well known among psychologists, and has been referenced by academics such as Nobel laureate James Watson, and the authors of the controversial book The Bell Curve -- Intelligence and Class Structure in America (Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray: Freepress, 1994).
African IQ scores prove flawed
Wicherts and his colleagues examined over 100 published studies, concluding that there is no evidence to back up Lynn's claims. Amongst other flaws, Lynn used selective data by systematically ignoring Africans with high IQ scores. The researchers also claim that African IQ test scores cannot be interpreted in terms of lower intelligence levels, as these scores have different psychometric characteristics than western IQ test scores. Until now, the incomparability of Western and African IQ scores had never been systematically proven.
The scientists point out that the average African IQ is currently comparable to the average level in the Netherlands around 1950. However, IQ scores in Western countries have risen sharply over the course of the 20th century. In view of this trend, Wicherts and his colleagues claim there are no reasonable grounds to conclude that sub-Saharan countries are poor due to the lower IQ scores of their populations. As it turns out, the average IQ of African adults is seeing a similar rising trend, which is expected to continue if living conditions in Africa improve in future.

 

[FreeQuebec]

So are you suggesting that they're genetically inferior? So they never went through the industrial revolution until the European came. Fine. However, how well do you think Quebecers in central Canada would fare in the sciences if all their courses starting in high school had to be in English only? In Montreal, maybe they'd manage it, but in most of central Quebec, students would not even be able to follow the teachers. In Africa, those countries that do this are just plain stupid. You don't learn science when you can't understand the teacher well. But the elites of many African countries are still colonized psychologically, unlike in Japan, South Korea, etc. where maths and sciences are taught in the pupils' mother tongue.

I agree you should speak/teach in their own languages. Yet you can't blame the failure to learn on that alone. Because I know I donated to a water system in Nigeria. They showed these villagers how to maintain fresh clean water, but they couldn't learn it. They could not learn how to use this water purifying machine, even though it has nothing to do with language, as learning to use a machine doesn't need to be language-based.

They just didn't have the mental capacity. Sadly, that is the truth. If you want to debate it, go ahead. But if someone just isn't too intelligent, they cannot be forced to learn advanced things. But even water purifying is quite easy. I don't know why they cannot learn it.

I am not saying they are genetically inferior, but they are definitely not a very intelligent people in the dark continent (ON AVERAGE, there are some exceptions).

What about the industries that have moved to Mexico since NAFTA? My guess is that they've reduced illegal immigration at least somewhat. Do you want to remove that now?

Why not have those industries on our Native reservations? Those poor Natives there have no jobs, why not build factories and give them those economic opportunities?

 

[FreeQuebec]

Can certainly tell that you're from Quebec, that attitude (blacks are stupid) is certainly common there. However, it's not really true.

Sorry, I forgot that people that eat albinos for magical power, that arrest goats because they thought it was a shapeshifter, and the people that are into Voodoo are equivalent to Harvard/Yale grads. My mistake. :lol:

Sorry I did not realize the African genius that has neck rings, lip disks, and the oh so many African inventors, artists, philosophers, conquerors, explorers, etc.

My bad, I guess my education is lacking!

 

[YukonJack]

"I'm pretty sure that's completely inaccurate about La Raza. La Raza is a very mainstream, respectable lobbying group on Latino issues,"

La Raza, for those intellectually and/or politically challenged, means: The Race. And it does not mean a horse race or a car race but simply the so-called Hispanic Race. You know, the Native Americans who were too weak to hang onto their heritage and adopted a language that none of their grand parents spoke.

If La Raza is a respected, mainstream lobbying group, I weep for America.