Applying Affirmative Action

[Tonington]

How often are two applicants completely equal?

Happens all the time. Many hiring processes use scoring systems, it's easy to have ties.

 

[gerryh]

Methinks you are the one who "don't see it", I said NOTHING derogatory about any minorities. :smile:

I'm not the only one that read it as derogatory.

 

[petros]

After they closed the Looney Bin in Coquitlam it was either let them roam freely or get them jobs. Nobody wanted to pay to house them safely. Now they without live without proper healthcare self medicating downtown and pissing you off.

WTF do want already? Proper healtcare and housing for the mentally ill or let them live on E hastings pissing on the sidewalks? Do you want a bunch of smart, emotionally stable people with disabilities or on the dole?

If all the crackheads running around pisses you off too tell the Govt to stop importing the cocaine.

I'm not the only one that read it as derogatory.

I got that too.

How often are two applicants completely equal? In the rare situation (one in a billion) then a coin should be flipped, otherwise we are into reverse discrimination.

You hire one and if he doesn't work out after 3 months you call the second one and see if they are still available for the position.

 

[karrie]

How often are two applicants completely equal? In the rare situation (one in a billion) then a coin should be flipped, otherwise we are into reverse discrimination.

Having seen the hiring process more than once, quite often. As a matter of fact, it's more common for the applicants to be evenly matched than it is to have a minority of some sort applying. To say that consideration should be given to evening out a discrepancy, or overlooking something that might bias you against considering someone, is not 'reverse discrimination', it's an attempt to erase an existing discrimination... they're not the same thing.

 

[petros]

Depending on the position a matched set of CVs will ultimately end in a decision made by judging the personality of the applicants to fit the over all needs of the position and company.

 

[JLM]

I'm not the only one that read it as derogatory.

Well, you are the only one that said so to me.

I don't understand, the point I'm trying to make is that traits that don't contribute toward ability to do the job should not be considered. (And to other posters who say there are many ties in the job competition process, I say the process is not detailed enough) It's not like it should be curtailed to 10 questions in an interview.........there's past experience, reports from previous employers, there's examination of products produced, there are generally job evaluation forms submitted on past employment.

 

[karrie]

What's your concern then if you feel 'ties' are such an outside chance anyhow?

 

[Tonington]

(And to other posters who say there are many ties in the job competition process, I say the process is not detailed enough)

If you've never seen the process, how can you come to that conclusion? Where I work, a presentation of your past work in front of the current employees is a standard part of the process, along with a detailed CV, references, etc.

The simple matter of fact is that most candidates will come with similar backgrounds, and similar experiences when applying for the same job. Some candidates might have higher scores in category A than in category B, but still end up tied. As Petros alluded to, then it normally comes down to personality, which is the case for us.

 

[JLM]

If you've never seen the process, how can you come to that conclusion? Where I work, a presentation of your past work in front of the current employees is a standard part of the process, along with a detailed CV, references, etc.

The simple matter of fact is that most candidates will come with similar backgrounds, and similar experiences when applying for the same job. Some candidates might have higher scores in category A than in category B, but still end up tied. As Petros alluded to, then it normally comes down to personality, which is the case for us.

I was involved for many years, so am very familiar with the process sometimes having to short list 50 or 60 applications, usually by the time discarded the ones that clearly weren't suitable just from the application I might be left with 10 or 15. At that point you get on the phone and by the time that is done you're likely down to 4 or 5 which you call in for an interview. You sure don't consider traits that don't contribute to the performance of the job. (You have no idea how many Boy Scout badges I've been sent)

 

[petros]

I don't understand, the point I'm trying to make is that traits that don't contribute toward ability to do the job should not be considered. (And to other posters who say there are many ties in the job competition process, I say the process is not detailed enough) It's not like it should be curtailed to 10 questions in an interview.........there's past experience, reports from previous employers, there's examination of products produced, there are generally job evaluation forms submitted on past employment.

What makes all the difference in the world between a minority applicant and a white applicant is education, experience and personality.

If you see some Indonesian working down at your local "Canada Centre" (if you have one of those in Vernon) it's not because they are a minority it is because they probably had a govt job and a degree or certificate where they lived.

If our culture valued education as much as they do in Asia you would see an entirely different social-scape in Canada.

Who is it that bitches and whines about paying taxes?

Taxes to go to educate kids and giving them more than just ABC 123 are the backbone of having a high standard of living.

How do you like the music of today?

What would music today sound like if they didn't hack and slash arts back in the 70's and 80's?

Where would Canada be if science in schools wasn't hacked and slashed?

Why are the majority of Canadians mathematically illiterate?

The things we need to sink the most money into, we don't. we complain that it costs too much.

Explains this. If GDP and productivity keep going up why are we paying more taxes and getting less and less. Why? Because Canadians have been reduced to a human resource that only needs the basics to get by.

Something is seriously wrong with the people running this country if they don't have a clue about the basics of societal enhancement.

Or maybe they don't want society cohesive through education and improvement. Maybe they want to divide and conquer? Maybe they need turmoil and class struggles to keep you occupied in your spare time?

 

[Tonington]

Well, the fact that there are ties does not necessarily mean that the hiring process is not detailed enough. It could mean that the talent pool is pretty uniform.

 

[petros]

Well, the fact that there are ties does not necessarily mean that the hiring process is not detailed enough. It could mean that the talent pool is pretty uniform.

Companies want to hire the ones that stand out from the rest and think differently than the rest. In todays' labour market that is usually an immigrant who is driven by more than just wanting a job.

 

[JLM]

Well, the fact that there are ties does not necessarily mean that the hiring process is not detailed enough. It could mean that the talent pool is pretty uniform.

You got that backwards.................for sure! :smile:

 

[Tonington]

Companies want to hire the ones that stand out from the rest and think differently than the rest. In todays' labour market that is usually an immigrant who is driven by more than just wanting a job.

For us, there just aren't that many people who are trained in fish health. There's only so many fish in a huge pond. The folks in human resources do not have an easy job looking for talent in this field.

 

[JLM]

The whole problem of this process of favouring minorities for hiring, is it is a perceived way of evening up the score for those perceived to be disadvantaged. Favouring them for jobs does not make them any less advantaged. I'm all for programs to help minorities (like giving them skills) so they are able to compete on the raw criteria necessary to qualify for the job, then you can relegate all the minority sh*t where it belongs................in the dark. By the same token I would never disqualify a person for a job based on minority criteria.

 

[TenPenny]

Companies want to hire the ones that stand out from the rest and think differently than the rest.

Some companies want to hire the ones that fit the company mold already.

 

[JLM]

Some companies want to hire the ones that fit the company mold already.

I think that is fair enough, bottom line is if I own a company I should be able to hire who I like (as long as I can stand the prospect of bankrupcy) In free enterprise the customer has as much input as the proprietor..........if it's an A$$hole company and they hire A$$holes, the only way to curb them is to boycott them. It's a "two edged sword".

 

[petros]

The whole problem of this process of favouring minorities for hiring, is it is a perceived way of evening up the score for those perceived to be disadvantaged. Favouring them for jobs does not make them any less advantaged. I'm all for programs to help minorities (like giving them skills) so they are able to compete on the raw criteria necessary to qualify for the job, then you can relegate all the minority sh*t where it belongs................in the dark. By the same token I would never disqualify a person for a job based on minority criteria.

What makes you think they hire people with zero skills to do a skilled job just because they are minority. Would you put a blind guy into the position of air craft controller? No. Of course not. Nor would you put someone with no education in the tax office.

 

[JLM]

What makes you think they hire people with zero skills to do a skilled job just because they are minority. Would you put a blind guy into the position of air craft controller? No. Of course not. Nor would you put someone with no education in the tax office.

Sorry, I must be getting confused but I don't recall saying anywhere about hiring people with "zero skills", only about hiring people who are not qualified. If you go back to my O.P. my only point was dumb program of favouring visible minorities to qualify for jobs............NOTHING MORE THAN THAT.

 

[taxslave]

What Clark was trying to do was even the playing field. Obviously jlm doesn't like that idea. As can be seen by jlm's attitude towards "indians, blind, and tards, it doesn't come down to qualifications in the end. For the minority to get the job, he/she MUST be better qualified all the way around. If it was between 2 with the same qualification, the white male got the job.

You would have had to have been here and suffered under the dipper mismanagement to really grasp what JLM is trying to say. His statement is poorly worded thats all. Example
1) When Clark & co decided to build the fat cat ferries they put on a welding program just for women so they could work on the ferries even though there were qualified males with experience and TQs that were unemployed but were not permitted to work on the boats because white males were over represented on the crew.
It was not leveling the playing field so much as PC social engineering.

He also made Connie Monroe #2 at WCB simply because her husband was the leader of the IWA for umpteen years even though she had no business experience at all and no background in safety or injury prevention.