And God Gave Them Over ...

[MHz]

Have you considered starting a discussion about universal salvation, gerry?

It's beyond his pay-grade.

"About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lemme have a sammich”

Jesus was saying God had forsaken Him as He was still alive rather than being dead. Considering the 'It is finished.' statement was about the bruise to the heel being completed He hardly felt abandoned by God.

Does it really seem like God abandoned Him.

Isa:53:10:
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him;
he hath put him to grief:
when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
he shall see his seed,
he shall prolong his days,
and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

It goes to show how desperate people are to mock God and have the book say something it doesn't. The product of some sick minds and the odds are high they will get a lot worse before they get better.

 

[Motar]

Jesus was saying God had forsaken Him as He was still alive rather than being dead ... Does it really seem like God abandoned Him.

Isa:53:10:
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him;
he hath put him to grief:
when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
he shall see his seed,
he shall prolong his days,
and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Judgment for sin occurred at the crucifixion of Christ in both the material and spiritual planes.

In our bodies, we experience immediate and temporary (physical lifetime) effects of living apart from God. In our "souls", we realize "grief" (as your Scripture reference states) that is both immediate and can be permanent (our choice).

This is the "forsaken" that Jesus willingly bore for us (if we choose) on the cross. If we decline, it is our abandonment to bear.

 

[MHz]

Judgment for sin occurred at the crucifixion of Christ in both the material and spiritual planes.

In our bodies, we experience immediate and temporary (physical lifetime) effects of living apart from God. In our "souls", we realize "grief" (as your Scripture reference states) that is both immediate and can be permanent (our choice).

This is the "forsaken" that Jesus willingly bore for us (if we choose) on the cross. If we decline, it is our abandonment to bear.

Really?? So what are the two laws for that are given in the NT? Repenting of sins is done through (sincere) prayer these days (since Luke:21:24) What was 'set aside' was the 600+ morality and diet laws and that officially ended when Peter had the vision in Acts:10 which would have been 3 1/2 years after the cross, the end of the 70 week.

Grief was fulfilled when Jesus said those words. If people were free of sin they would be free from judgement, the Gentiles have yet to be judged and that happens when the bruise to Satan's head happens. (as in the sheep/goats judgment from Matthew:25) and feeding the poor is the dividing line so most \Christians' will fail on that score alone. It doesn't mean feeding the poor of the congregation, it means feeding a hungry stranger.

M't:5:43-47:
Ye have heard that it hath been said,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour,
and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you,
Love your enemies,
bless them that curse you,
do good to them that hate you,
and pray for them which despitefully use you,
and persecute you;
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven:
for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good,
and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
For if ye love them which love you,
what reward have ye?
do not even the publicans the same?
And if ye salute your brethren only,
what do ye more than others?
do not even the publicans so?

This is when that last sentence in your post was determined rather than on the cross.

Proverb:8:336:
Now therefore hearken unto me,
O ye children:
for blessed are they that keep my ways.
Hear instruction,
and be wise,
and refuse it not.
Blessed is the man that heareth me,
watching daily at my gates,
waiting at the posts of my doors.
For whoso findeth me findeth life,
and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul:
all they that hate me love death.

 

[Ludlow]

He asked why have you forsaken me because he was forsaken. Just like he is forsaken today in favor of other teachers.

 

[MHz]

He was given a glorified body a few days later, how forsaken is that? Going to the grave was 'part of the plan', when it is 'mission completed' that is not being forsaken. If the cross could have been avoided it would have happened during the prayers that were about that aspect of 'events that were soon to unfold' that would result in His death. God was quite happy to see Him go to the grave. It was the completion of the bruise to the heel and it established what a bruise was in that determination. It will mean death to an immortal angelic being, a fate that would seem to be impossible for all except God simply by bringing in a new set of Laws that ruled the period of time that was set aside for the completion of the two bruises.

Today it is because the truth has been exchanged for a lie.

 

[Ludlow]

He was given a glorified body a few days later, how forsaken is that? Going to the grave was 'part of the plan', when it is 'mission completed' that is not being forsaken. If the cross could have been avoided it would have happened during the prayers that were about that aspect of 'events that were soon to unfold' that would result in His death. God was quite happy to see Him go to the grave. It was the completion of the bruise to the heel and it established what a bruise was in that determination. It will mean death to an immortal angelic being, a fate that would seem to be impossible for all except God simply by bringing in a new set of Laws that ruled the period of time that was set aside for the completion of the two bruises.

Today it is because the truth has been exchanged for a lie.

Nice Saul quote. Pretty clear who you follow

Hell the title of the thread is sauline

 

[darkbeaver]

Biblical scholars, and the dating of this book, so many Bibles, so many hours of the day

The testaments , the old was written after the new,

Suddenly they needed some history. The incredulous mobs were not buying it. fukkin pagans

 

[Motar]

He asked why have you forsaken me because he was forsaken. Just like he is forsaken today in favor of other teachers.

"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." (2 Timothy 4:3 NIV)

He was given a glorified body a few days later, how forsaken is that? Going to the grave was 'part of the plan', when it is 'mission completed' that is not being forsaken.

Psalm 22 foreshadows a view from the cross:

1
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?

2
My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.

3
Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the one Israel praises.

4
In you our ancestors put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.

5
To you they cried out and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not put to shame.

6
But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by everyone, despised by the people.

7
All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.

8
“He trusts in the Lord,” they say,
“let the Lord rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him.”

9
Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.

10
From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.

11
Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.

12
Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.

13
Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.

14
I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.

15
My mouth is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.

16
Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce my hands and my feet.

17
All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.

18
They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment.

"Forsaken" is the spiritual portion of condemnation and judgment.

 

[Ludlow]

Another quote from Saul

 

[Motar]

Isa:53:10:

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him;
he hath put him to grief:
when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
he shall see his seed,
he shall prolong his days,
and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

So glad you posted this, MHz. I have been thinking about "grief", as it relates to judgment.

In a recent reading of an employee policy manual, I was astonished at the scope of the company grievance policy. It occupied the largest section of the manual and went into minute detail about what constitutes a grievance and how to formally lodge a complaint against a coworker, etc.

Contemporary corporate culture appears to be filling up with grief, betraying a declining moral climate in the workplace in particular and in the culture at large in general.

 

[MHz]

I'm not sure the two are that closely related. Grief is an emotion and as such it is a part of God and a part of mankind. Angelic beings are strong but they lack the emotions needed to be a 'parent'. The grief felt by God in Ge:6 is often attributed to God's dislike for mankind rather than it being grief over what fallen angels were doing to mankind. It was down to 5 five fingered people before God intervened so that there was a seed of Eve to take the bruise to the heel from Ge:3:15.
The part you describe is more inclined to human rights issues and the ones at the top are probably well shielded from such charges. It would appear to be directed at the lower level workers.

 

[Motar]

I'm not sure the two are that closely related. Grief is an emotion and as such it is a part of God and a part of mankind. Angelic beings are strong but they lack the emotions needed to be a 'parent'. The grief felt by God in Ge:6 is often attributed to God's dislike for mankind rather than it being grief over what fallen angels were doing to mankind. It was down to 5 five fingered people before God intervened so that there was a seed of Eve to take the bruise to the heel from Ge:3:15.
The part you describe is more inclined to human rights issues and the ones at the top are probably well shielded from such charges. It would appear to be directed at the lower level workers.

grief(n.)
early 13c., "hardship, suffering, pain, bodily affliction," from Old French grief "wrong, grievance, injustice, misfortune, calamity" (13c.), from grever "afflict, burden, oppress," from Latin gravare "make heavy; cause grief," from gravis "weighty" (see grave (adj.)). Meaning "mental pain, sorrow" is from c. 1300. Good grief as an exclamation of surprise, dismay, etc., is from 1912.
Online Etymology Dictionary

 

[darkbeaver]

[QUOTEtc.

Contemporary corporate culture appears to be filling up with grief, betraying a declining moral climate in the workplace in particular and in the culture at large in general.[/QUOTE]

Imperial decay. books are full of the science

 

[Motar]

Sorry, DB. Did not respond thinking this was rhetorical. I found 2431 Bible references to "Israel" using the search function at BibleGateway.com Here is the first reference to get you started:

"Then the man said, 'Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome." (Genesis 32:28 NIV)

Israel is God's timepiece, DB.

 

[darkbeaver]

Israel is God's timepiece, DB.

God is timeless.

 

[MHz]

Israel is God's timepiece, DB.

Israel was the group that would produce the 'seed of Eve' that would be the one to complete both bruise determinations from Ge:3:15. The 10 Commandments will also be 'retired' on the day of return as immortal and sinless people come under the Re:21 Law.

 

[Motar]

Israel was the group that would produce the 'seed of Eve' that would be the one to complete both bruise determinations from Ge:3:15. The 10 Commandments will also be 'retired' on the day of return as immortal and sinless people come under the Re:21 Law.

Israel persists today.

"So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace." (Romans 11:5 NIV)

There is always a remnant of Israel preserved by God.

"Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel." (Revelation 7:4 NIV)

 

[gerryh]

Israel persists today.

"So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace." (Romans 11:5 NIV)

There is always a remnant of Israel preserved by God.

"Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel." (Revelation 7:4 NIV)

Ya, because the idea that God has unconditional love for his children is a lie. He has no problem with throwing away some of his children and keeping others.

 

[Ludlow]

Ya, because the idea that God has unconditional love for his children is a lie. He has no problem with throwing away some of his children and keeping others.

Good to know someone speaks for gawd. ST. Pudney Ignatious PBUH

 

[Motar]

God is timeless.

Yes, God is eternal. The world as we know it however has an expiration date. A new heaven and earth are planned. Israel is God's timepiece in this plan.