And again... (Another US Shooting)

[taxslave]

*sigh*

Okay. Fine, I'll 'play' again.

1. Background checks - if for ANY reason you should not have a gun, that's an instant "you don't get a gun". That includes Domestic abuse, threats of violence, threats of killing people, etc. If you've committed any crime with a gun before, at ANY age, you don't get a gun at LEAST until you're checked out and can prove you won't repeat that issue. If you have a history of mental illness, you don't get a gun because there is no guarantee that you will stay on your meds/are on your meds. Which leads to:

2. Mental illness - IF you have any kind of anti-social behaviour, have tried suicide in the past, have any kind of extreme illness like schitzophrenia or Bi-polarism, you don't get a gun because it's usually someone in those categories that tends to be violent.

3. Red Flag laws - Someone shows up as a 'red flag' in ANY state, they don't get to purchase a gun. If any of the above pops up on a computer in South Dakota about Joe Flow from Florida, they don't get to sell a gun to Joe.

4. Age - you can't legally get alcohol until you're 21, you can't rent a car until you're 25, and depending on the state getting your driver's licence as a teen requires more hoops than getting a gun does. So no more kids allowed to buy guns without a PROVEN parent/guardian being with them. (This new guy? According to his grandfather from what I read he was a FELON already, should NEVER have been able to touch a gun, but someone ELSE took him to get said guns, so...). IMO at LEAST 21 to actually be able to purchase your own gun. This also ties into:

5. How to get a gun - you have to jump through hoops galore to get a gun, in ANY manner. Online, in a store, at some sort of 'sale event'/convention or whatever, the most someone there at those events can do is take your name and 'stats' to check on you before you get anything in your hands. But you have to PROVE you are not a threat to society at large.

6. Licence - that is renewed just like anything else.

I could go on but this is enough for now, most likely?

The drink

Well, if you're gonna play, I can hardly stand on the sidelines, can I?

1. No further importation of foreign-made firearms. If their people can't have them, why should they make money from our blood?

2. No further sale or transfer of any firearm capable of accepting a detachable box magazine. If you can't get the job done with a lever-action, a bolt-action, a pump-action shotgun, a semi-auto with a fixed magazine holding no more than 10 rounds, or a revolver, you're too bad a shot to own a gun anyhow.

3. Ownership and carriage of handguns at the discretion of the government, and available only to people with the equivalent background check to that of a Top Secret security clearance, or to members of the militia, defined as police officers, firearms-licensed security guards, or members of the state National Guard. Those persons pay for the privilege by being available for call-up as needed in cases of riot, civil insurrection, or natural or man-made disaster.

4. Ammunition kept in the home limited to 20 rounds. If you want to pop off 100 rounds, you buy it at the range and use it there. If you do the kind of hunting that requires 20+ rounds, you show a license and get special permission, limited in time. All ammo sales tracked via internet.

5. All illegal weapons seized by law enforcement at any level are to be destroyed, not auctioned off nor kept as keepsakes by the cops.

6. Mandatory training for all persons who wish to own a firearm. Two weeks, in residence, at the expense of the applicant.

7. Persons convicted of felonies of any kind or misdemeanors in which violence is involved lose all right to own a gun for life. (Exception for simple assault in a hand-to-hand fight, provided no weapons of any kind were used. Shows the right mindset.)

8. Seizure of weapons in any case of a mental-health hold or a civil case or application of a protective order where violence or a reasonable threat of violence is involved. Return of weapons at the discretion of the judge supervising the case.

And that's the lot. Keeps pissed-off teenagers from buying high-capacity weapons, reload times on the weapons permitted gives potential victims time to fight or flee, and sharply reduces handguns, which are used in 95% of firearms homicides in the U.S. Expensive? You bet. That's the point.

I disagree with #3 and 4. While they might be OK in a city they are much too restrictive in rural areas. Many people that work alone in the bush carry a hand cannon for protection, since a rife is just too awkward. And where does one find a range in rural areas? We use old gravel pits mostly. The only handgun facility I am aware of is 3 towns down the highway, and I am not aware of any rifle ranges closer. WE do have a shotgun range not far away.

 

[Serryah]

So the door to the school was unlocked, least the one he used which teachers I know in the US have noted was 'unusual'.

The cops waited 40 or so minutes to engage.

NONE of the cops on scene tried to go in after him; parents who were there were thinking of doing 'the cops job'.

They had to use a key to get into the room he was in as THAT door was locked?

This entire thing was a clusterfuck of stupidity summed up by "The cops were not prepared".

By now, since this is going to be the norm, the cops SHOULD be prepared for this shit. I mean, the KIDS have to drill for shooters in their schools, how about cops drilling for shooters attacking said schools?

 

[petros]

She needs to read an application to buy before listing everything already in place as a solution.

 

[taxslave]

Okay so here's a situation/scenerio for you TB.

Person with mental issues (Borderline Personality Disorder, Social Anxiety) convicted of a felony trespass (and made online comments about how it's "bad" they can't go wherever they wish, and thought the situation that required several enforcement agencies to apprehend the person was "funny"), has mental health history including suicide threats, wants a gun.

Should they have been able to get said gun?

IMO that should have been a hard no (but then I also personally knew the person so...)

SO how exactly do you intend to enforce all this? It is relatively easy to prevent a person from obtaining a legal gun, but how do you propose to stop them from obtaining an illegal one? Since we can't even stop the flow of illegal guns that have penalties for owning/selling them now.

 

[petros]

Search

Form 4473​

A Firearms Transaction Record, or ATF Form 4473, is a six-page form prescribed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) required to be completed when a person proposes to purchase a firearm from a Federal Firearms License (FFL) holder, such as a gun dealer.[1]

ATF Form 4473, October 2016 revision
Form 4473 contains the purchaser’s name, address, date of birth, government-issued photo ID, National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) background check transaction number, and a short affidavit stating that the purchaser is eligible to purchase firearms under federal law. It also contains the make, model, or serial numbering the firearm. Lying on the form is a felony punishable by up to five years in prison[2] in addition to fines, even if the transaction is denied by the NICS. Prosecutions are rare in the absence of a felony committed with the gun purchased.[citation needed] Of 556,496 denied transactions between FY 2008 and FY 2015, federal prosecutors prosecuted an average of under 32 cases per year, including 24 in FY 2013, 15 in FY 2014 and 20 in FY 2015.[3][4]
If a person purchases a firearm from a private individual who is not a FFL licensed dealer, the purchaser is not required in most states to complete a Form 4473. All purchases of small arms (handguns) from private individuals from another state are required to have a Form 4473 completed before sale.[citation needed] Some states (such as California, Colorado, Nevada, New Jersey, and Washington) require individual sellers to sell through dealers.
These forms are given the same status as a tax return under the Privacy Act of 1974 and cannot be disclosed by the government to private parties or other government officials except in accordance with the Privacy Act. Individual dealers possessing a copy of the form are not subject to the Privacy Act's restrictions on disclosure. Dealers are required to maintain completed forms for 20 years in the case of completed sales, and for 5 years where the sale was disapproved as a result of the NICS check.

 

[pgs]

Hey. Don't forget Surrey.

Yea we deserve recognition also .

 

[Serryah]

SO how exactly do you intend to enforce all this? It is relatively easy to prevent a person from obtaining a legal gun, but how do you propose to stop them from obtaining an illegal one? Since we can't even stop the flow of illegal guns that have penalties for owning/selling them now.

How many mass shootings have been done with *illegal* guns?

No one is idiotic enough to suggest you will stop ALL crimes, but enforcing things like red flag and background checks will stop some, if not most, which is better than none.

Enforcement? Starts first at point of sale (yes, yes, I know, legal guns but since again that is where MOST of mass shooting guns come from...). EVERYONE wanting a gun can't just buy and same day get one. You HAVE to have proof you're pre-approved to buy said gun, or there's a hold until you get that approval.

Approval means going through background checks, means actual TRAINING with your gun and as TB pointed out, NO massive amounts of amunition. You want more, go to a gun range to fire off all you want but going home you can't bring rounds back NOR can you add more to what you already have. Like medication; Pharmacists won't fill out a script if you still have pills left, per their records; well you can't buy more boxes of ammo unless certain conditions are met.

Beyond point of sale?

Well that's part of the 'protect' that cops are supposed to do, right? Maybe hire people to actually manage the database of gun ownership, get people hired to do gun checks.

Cause it's obvious SOMETHING needs doing.

What would YOUR solution be?

 

[Jinentonix]

Actually, texting and driving is illegal, and citations are issued for it every day. Governments widely tout the fact that texting and driving are illegal and dangerous. The governments responded to the growing threat of texting and driving rapidly and responsibly, and industry got on board with a number of innovations (like text-to-speech-to-text and other technical measures) that alleviate the "need" to text while driving.

And yet the carnage continues as a result.

What we didn't have was morons throwing up strawmen like "One time I saw this guy reading a book behind the wheel, so obviously there's ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE between that and texting and driving!"

There isn't. Texting and driving doesn't just refer to the act of sending text messages whilst driving. It also means gaping at your fucking phone when you're supposed to be watching the road.

or "Wutabout car radios?"

What about them?

or "I gots me a Const'ushionl RAHT!"

That wouldn't even be a strawman. It would just be laughably stupid because there is no right to own a car or drive one.

"People will still text and drive, so there's no point in reducing the problem if you can't eliminate it entirely!"
Kind'a like the ones who state you can't stop drug use so let's just legalize them all? That last strawman example of yours is used for far more than arguing about guns.

 

[Serryah]

'Horrifying' conspiracy theories swirl around Texas shooting

By now it's as predictable as the calls for thoughts and prayers: A mass shooting leaves many dead, and wild conspiracy theories and misinformation about the carnage soon follow. Within hours of Tuesday's school shooting in Uvalde, Texas, another rash began as internet users spread baseless...

www.ctvnews.ca

So where is the reaction to all the people not only trolling this fucking horrible event, but for claiming that the killer was things he was not (illegal, trans) and because of that, leading to actual legit people having THEIR lives threatened??

Oh right, they don't matter because who cares...

Anyone who perpetuates this kind of bullshit line shows that they actually DON'T care about this event or the truth of it, but are taking the tragedy of this moment and the chaos these families feel, and for some sick and twisted reason want to make MORE chaos and MORE people's lives ruined in the process.

These people just don't give a damn and it's high time someone held them responsible for spreading their lies.

 

[Jinentonix]

*sigh*



4. Age - you can't legally get alcohol until you're 21, you can't rent a car until you're 25, and depending on the state getting your driver's licence as a teen requires more hoops than getting a gun does. So no more kids allowed to buy guns without a PROVEN parent/guardian being with them. (This new guy? According to his grandfather from what I read he was a FELON already, should NEVER have been able to touch a gun, but someone ELSE took him to get said guns, so...). IMO at LEAST 21 to actually be able to purchase your own gun. This also ties into:

*sigh*. You have to be 18 to buy a long gun and 21 to buy a handgun. Your age crap is kind'a funny though because you only need to be 18 to join the military and go kill people. So at 18 I'm old enough to handle the burden of killing people with a rifle, grenades, trench knife, my bare hands even, but not old enough to handle the responsibility of actually owning a rifle.

 

[B00Mer]

Interesting

 

[B00Mer]

 

[B00Mer]

Flags lowered in Texas as they should be.. beautiful day here today

Half mast for the lost children

youtube.com

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

'Horrifying' conspiracy theories swirl around Texas shooting

By now it's as predictable as the calls for thoughts and prayers: A mass shooting leaves many dead, and wild conspiracy theories and misinformation about the carnage soon follow. Within hours of Tuesday's school shooting in Uvalde, Texas, another rash began as internet users spread baseless...

www.ctvnews.ca

So where is the reaction to all the people not only trolling this fucking horrible event, but for claiming that the killer was things he was not (illegal, trans) and because of that, leading to actual legit people having THEIR lives threatened??

Oh right, they don't matter because who cares...

Anyone who perpetuates this kind of bullshit line shows that they actually DON'T care about this event or the truth of it, but are taking the tragedy of this moment and the chaos these families feel, and for some sick and twisted reason want to make MORE chaos and MORE people's lives ruined in the process.

These people just don't give a damn and it's high time someone held them responsible for spreading their lies.

When the authorities release no information on the killer, then you get these fake stories filling the vacuum. And you get the questions 'why have they released no information?'. With Buffalo shooting we knew who the shooter was and all his political leanings within hours.

 

[taxslave]

How many mass shootings have been done with *illegal* guns?

No one is idiotic enough to suggest you will stop ALL crimes, but enforcing things like red flag and background checks will stop some, if not most, which is better than none.

Enforcement? Starts first at point of sale (yes, yes, I know, legal guns but since again that is where MOST of mass shooting guns come from...). EVERYONE wanting a gun can't just buy and same day get one. You HAVE to have proof you're pre-approved to buy said gun, or there's a hold until you get that approval.

Approval means going through background checks, means actual TRAINING with your gun and as TB pointed out, NO massive amounts of amunition. You want more, go to a gun range to fire off all you want but going home you can't bring rounds back NOR can you add more to what you already have. Like medication; Pharmacists won't fill out a script if you still have pills left, per their records; well you can't buy more boxes of ammo unless certain conditions are met.

Beyond point of sale?

Well that's part of the 'protect' that cops are supposed to do, right? Maybe hire people to actually manage the database of gun ownership, get people hired to do gun checks.

Cause it's obvious SOMETHING needs doing.

What would YOUR solution be?

All the things you want to do would only slow down the purchase of legal guns, which is good as far as it goes, but will do nothing to stop anyone from purchasing an illegal gun. Even where I live there are unregistered handguns changing hands on a somewhat regular basis. Now I'm not real sure how illegal guns get from manufacturer to black market, but this would be the first place to get tough on crime. Wouldn't even bother me if they executed a few people at this level. Give street level dealers 20 years or so with no time off. Use a gun in a crime, get life with no parole. I don't care, but stop picking on honest taxpayers that happen to be gu n entheusists.

 

[taxslave]

'Horrifying' conspiracy theories swirl around Texas shooting

By now it's as predictable as the calls for thoughts and prayers: A mass shooting leaves many dead, and wild conspiracy theories and misinformation about the carnage soon follow. Within hours of Tuesday's school shooting in Uvalde, Texas, another rash began as internet users spread baseless...

www.ctvnews.ca

So where is the reaction to all the people not only trolling this fucking horrible event, but for claiming that the killer was things he was not (illegal, trans) and because of that, leading to actual legit people having THEIR lives threatened??

Oh right, they don't matter because who cares...

Anyone who perpetuates this kind of bullshit line shows that they actually DON'T care about this event or the truth of it, but are taking the tragedy of this moment and the chaos these families feel, and for some sick and twisted reason want to make MORE chaos and MORE people's lives ruined in the process.

These people just don't give a damn and it's high time someone held them responsible for spreading their lies.

SO no more CBC?

 

[taxslave]

*sigh*. You have to be 18 to buy a long gun and 21 to buy a handgun. Your age crap is kind'a funny though because you only need to be 18 to join the military and go kill people. So at 18 I'm old enough to handle the burden of killing people with a rifle, grenades, trench knife, my bare hands even, but not old enough to handle the responsibility of actually owning a rifle.

The catch is you only get to kill the people the government wants dead, not necessarily the ones you want dead. Strange laws we got.
ETA: You don't get to have a smoke legally after a kill if you do it for the government.

 

[taxslave]

Do like Canaduh and use the state broadcaster as the source to make bad political decisions.

 

[Serryah]

Another side-victim of this tragedy.

The husband of one of the teachers had a fatal heart attack at hearing of his wife's death.

High school sweethearts.

Leave 4 kids behind.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

Another side-victim of this tragedy.

The husband of one of the teachers had a fatal heart attack at hearing of his wife's death.

High school sweethearts.

Leave 4 kids behind.

That is sad but it was probably due to happen within a couple of weeks anyways. A healthy heart doesn't have a heart attack out of the blue.