And again... (Another US Shooting)

[Tecumsehsbones]

Same shit, different pile. My point is vehicles are used as weapons or become unintentional weapons and nobody really gives a fuck even though it happens multiple times a day. It's just not "sexy" enough to exploit for political hay-making purposes.
Owning guns is a govt-only approved responsibility apparently, while car ownership and driving are god given fundamental rights.

Your point is to whatabout. Because that's all you've got.

Because you cannot come up with one. . . single. . . legitimate civilian use for a weapon that can put over 100 rounds downrange in less than a minute.

Except, of course, the clear, present, and common danger of. . . feral hogs!

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Not to the extent that the US does but yeah, they do. A lack of legal accessibility to firearms isn't preventing societal violence in most of those countries, not even self-inflicted violence. Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the world, but yeah, they're just fine.
Canada routinely saw more stabbings than shootings per year until recently, but yeah, we're just fine.
Even the US saw a Christmas parade massacre without the perpetrator firing a single shot. But guns are the problem. Hell, McVeigh and Nichols hold the dubious "distinction" for the largest domestically-sourced mass murder in modern US history and they didn't fire a single shot.

A lack of mass shootings is not indicative of a lack of societal problems either. Hell it's not even indicative of lack of murder or mass murder.

I guess the real question is, is the frequency with which it happens in the US just a by-product of being a gun owning nation? Or is the growing frequency a result of the politics of division? Or is it a deeper societal problem?

Hell, even when Canada had easier access to "military grade assault style weapons" as the alarmists like to call them, we still didn't have the mass shootings the US did during that same period.
Studying the stats before Dubya was president there was an average of two or fewer mass shootings per year in the US. During Bush's presidency that number rose to around 4-5 per yr. By the end of Obama's presidency, the number was up to around one every 6-8 weeks. I don't know what the frequency is now but considering Americans have always had access to semi-automatic firearms, I doubt the continuing increase is the fault of the firearm.

But only societal problems cause mass shootings. We know cuz you said so.

Back in the civil rights days, the city of Birmingham, Alabama came to be known as "Bombingham" because the Klan was blowing up so much stuff.

What did we do? We strictly regulated possession of dynamite.

Did it stop all the bombings? No. It's entirely possible to cobble up effective explosives from legally-available chemicals. See Timothy McVeigh.

Did it help? Maybe not. Maybe after the Civil Rights Act of 1964, every violent racist in America said "Oh, well, I guess I love everybody now," and it's been sweetness and light ever since. Maybe strictly regulating acquisition and possession of dynamite had nothing to do with it. Or maybe it did.

Whaddaya think? Do you want to live in a country where you can get high explosives and machine guns over the counter with virtually no questions asked? If not, why not? Because machine guns and dynamite bombs don't kill people, people kill people.

But no, let's talk about suicide and pretend Japan isn't a country with a very, very different cultural and psychological view of suicide. Or traffic accidents. Or whateverthefuck it takes to distract attention from the fact that we're running over 30,000 gun deaths per year, about 12-13,000 of which are clearly homicides.

Because that's not worth talking about.

Free the dynamite! Free the machine guns! Ah gots me a Constooshnl RAHT to stockpile grenades and rocket launchers! Cuz they don't kill people.

People kill people.

 

[taxslave]

Which is of course opens it up for you to jump in right behind her with a fine example of a fact filled , carefully-considered and well reasoned response .

He's a lawyer. Facts are not his strong suit.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

He's a lawyer. Facts are not his strong suit.

Your brilliant satire has cut me to the quick. I may never recover.

"It's like being savaged by a dead sheep."
--Denis Healy

 

[taxslave]

Your point is to whatabout. Because that's all you've got.

Because you cannot come up with one. . . single. . . legitimate civilian use for a weapon that can put over 100 rounds downrange in less than a minute.

Except, of course, the clear, present, and common danger of. . . feral hogs!

Like everything else it is important because we can, and feel like it. Just like race cars.

 

[taxslave]

Your brilliant satire has cut me to the quick. I may never recover.

"It's like being savaged by a dead sheep."
--Denis Healy

Damn, I was hoping for death of a thousand cuts instead of one quick toss of a marlin spike.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Like everything else it is important because we can, and feel like it. Just like race cars.

Funny you should bring that up.

Are you allowed to drive a Formula One racer on the streets of Moose Jaw or whereverthefuck you live?

 

[taxslave]

Funny you should bring that up.

Are you allowed to drive a Formula One racer on the streets of Moose Jaw or whereverthefuck you live?

No Idea. If you can, it would be the only reason to go there.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

No Idea. If you can, it would be the only reason to go there.

You're not. Trust me.

But feel free to whatabout. It seems to be what passes for logical argumentation in Canaduh.

 

[Twin_Moose]

If this was just a psych issue, sure.

This wasn't and you damn well know that. But I don't expect you to actually be truthful or honest about any of this situation.

Stop being a fucking idiot and looking for excuses to avoid blaming the cops for this. And the assholes who don't give a sweet fuck about the lives that were taken that day.

Your good guys with their guns did not stop this bad guy with a gun.

More guns did not stop this kid from killing those kids or their teachers.

Those cops did not stop that kid from killing those kids or their teachers.

Yes they shoulda went in with no hesitation, but can you overly blame them in todays environment of damned if you do damned if you don't? What is their lawsuit exemption status these days?

 

[DaSleeper]

Are you allowed to drive a Formula One racer on the streets of Moose Jaw or whereverthefuck you live?
As long as you follow the posted speed limit????

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

Funny you should bring that up.

Are you allowed to drive a Formula One racer on the streets of Moose Jaw or whereverthefuck you live?

Why not? It's not like the cops could catch you.

 

[Jinentonix]

But only societal problems cause mass shootings. We know cuz you said so.

You're right, it's the guns. Society has nothing to do with it.

Back in the civil rights days, the city of Birmingham, Alabama came to be known as "Bombingham" because the Klan was blowing up so much stuff.

What did we do? We strictly regulated possession of dynamite.

Did it stop all the bombings? No. It's entirely possible to cobble up effective explosives from legally-available chemicals. See Timothy McVeigh.

Did it help? Maybe not. Maybe after the Civil Rights Act of 1964, every violent racist in America said "Oh, well, I guess I love everybody now," and it's been sweetness and light ever since. Maybe strictly regulating acquisition and possession of dynamite had nothing to do with it. Or maybe it did.

Whaddaya think? Do you want to live in a country where you can get high explosives and machine guns over the counter with virtually no questions asked? If not, why not? Because machine guns and dynamite bombs don't kill people, people kill people.

Huh, I wonder how many times in this forum I've stated quite succinctly that rights need to have reasonable limits or else you have anarchy. Since you can't buy machine guns or dynamite over the counter your point is moot. Machine guns are purely military weapons and while explosives do have various legitimate uses in mining, farming, demolition etc, you need a permit to legally buy them. Those are reasonable limits. I also wouldn't want to live in a country where people can own battle-ready tanks and aircraft with their associated armaments either. But the US has reasonably restricted ownership of them.

But where do you draw the line at what is "military-grade/military-style firearms? The Wehrmacht sure managed to kill a LOT of people with the Mauser Kar98K, a single shot bolt-action rifle. The Japanese Imperial Army managed to kill a LOT of people with the Ariska Type-38, a single shot, bolt-action rifle. Maybe you guys should also ban all single shot bolt-action rifles because, after all, they ARE military-grade rifles. And those lever action rifles? Holy shit man, the US Cavalry managed to kill a LOT of Native people with lever action rifles. Clearly those are assault-style rifles too and need to be banned.

But no, let's talk about suicide and pretend Japan isn't a country with a very, very different cultural and psychological view of suicide.

Um, it was you who included Japan in your list. Society is made up of cultural and psychological views. That's why societies evolve (or de-evolve) over time.

Or traffic accidents. Or whateverthefuck it takes to distract attention from the fact that we're running over 30,000 gun deaths per year, about 12-13,000 of which are clearly homicides.

While the US is running just shy of 40,000 MVA deaths per year (as per 2018), the VAST majority of which are caused by impaired and distracted drivers. Very few of them are attributed to mechanical failure or weather. The intent may not have been to kill anyone, but the intent to break the law and not give a shit about the consequences was pretty fucking clear.

Because that's not worth talking about.

It's all the fuck everyone talks about after it happens. But hey, fuck the vast majority of the 40,000 plus Americans that are killed in MVAs by idiots who shouldn't be allowed to drive in the first place.

Free the dynamite! Free the machine guns! Ah gots me a Constooshnl RAHT to stockpile grenades and rocket launchers! Cuz they don't kill people.

People kill people.

Crack open the vodka, turn on the phone and hop behind the wheel. I'm a self-entitled shit who whines about guns.

 

[Jinentonix]

Are you allowed to drive a Formula One racer on the streets of Moose Jaw or whereverthefuck you live?
As long as you follow the posted speed limit????

Kind'a weird though that you can buy street cars that are capable of going twice the speed or faster than the highest posted speed limit anywhere in the country. But the gumbymint cares about the public health and safety of its citizens.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Kind'a weird though that you can buy street cars that are capable of going twice the speed or faster than the highest posted speed limit anywhere in the country. But the gumbymint cares about the public health and safety of its citizens.

Long as you wear a seat belt. And your muffler ain't too noisy. You can kill 'em, just not disturb their naps.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Are you allowed to drive a Formula One racer on the streets of Moose Jaw or whereverthefuck you live?
As long as you follow the posted speed limit????

No Idea. If you can, it would be the only reason to go there.

You're not. Trust me.

But feel free to whatabout. It seems to be what passes for logical argumentation in Canaduh.

Kind'a weird though that you can buy street cars that are capable of going twice the speed or faster than the highest posted speed limit anywhere in the country. But the gumbymint cares about the public health and safety of its citizens.

Long as you wear a seat belt. And your muffler ain't too noisy. You can kill 'em, just not disturb their naps.

Uhm…no.

Formula1 on a Canadian City Street. Just off the top of my head I’m gonna say nope.

1) If the tires project out farther than the body of the vehicle then nope.
2) if no horn then nope.
3) no headlights? Then nope.
4) no tail lights or signal lights or license plate light or back up lights or marker lights…??? Then nope. Where would a license plate get mounted on a Formula One vehicle anyway?
5) functional horn? If nope then nope.
6) no mudflaps? Then nope
7) Government approved (not track approved) bumpers and bumper inserts and crumple zones and so on and so forth? Then nope & nope & nope.
8) Then insurance. If an insurance company is not going to insure this vehicle to be on the road in Moose Knuckle, SK, then it can’t be on the road.
9) The tires, though they would be something incredibly freaky beyond a Z rating…. They’re probably not street legal with the lack of tread.

There’s probably a whole lot more but then we’re gonna get into the decibel level from the sound it emits, and a minimum height requirement I’m assuming, and then the approved functional climate controls to utilize this thing in our climate will be an issue.

 

[Jinentonix]

Uhm…no.

Formula1 on a Canadian City Street. Just off the top of my head I’m gonna say nope.

1) If the tires project out farther than the body of the vehicle then nope.
2) if no horn then nope.
3) no headlights? Then nope.
4) no tail lights or signal lights or license plate light or back up lights or marker lights…??? Then nope. Where would a license plate get mounted on a Formula One vehicle anyway?
5) functional horn? If nope then nope.
6) no mudflaps? Then nope
7) Government approved (not track approved) bumpers and bumper inserts and crumple zones and so on and so forth? Then nope & nope & nope.
8) Then insurance. If an insurance company is not going to insure this vehicle to be on the road in Moose Knuckle, SK, then it can’t be on the road.
9) The tires, though they would be something incredibly freaky beyond a Z rating…. They’re probably not street legal with the lack of tread.

There’s probably a whole lot more but then we’re gonna get into the decibel level from the sound it emits, and a minimum height requirement I’m assuming, and then the approved functional climate controls to utilize this thing in our climate will be an issue.

To be fair, Tec was responding to my post about really fast street legal cars, not F1 cars on the road.

 

[Twin_Moose]

 

[spaminator]

Uvalde gunman's grandmother, shot in face, may never speak again
Author of the article:Liz Braun
Publishing date:May 30, 2022 • 11 hours ago • 1 minute read • Join the conversation
This undated screenshot from the Instagram account of Salvador Ramos, shows Ramos who is the suspected gunman in the May 24, 2022, shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas.
This undated screenshot from the Instagram account of Salvador Ramos, shows Ramos who is the suspected gunman in the May 24, 2022, shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas. PHOTO BY INSTAGRAM /AFP via Getty Images
Before he shot and killed 19 school children and two teachers, the Texas school shooter shot his grandmother in the face.


She lived, but may never be able to speak again.

The New York Post reports that Celia “Sally” Martinez Gonzales, 66, first victim of Uvalde shooter Salvador Ramos, 18, took a bullet in the jaw. All her teeth were shattered, according to Jason Ybarra, one of the woman’s cousins.

“If the bullet was an inch in another direction, it would have blown her head off,” he said.

The cousin added that Gonzales was doing fairly well, considering what happened, but can only communicate by writing at this point.

Gonzales has already had several surgeries to repair her damaged face, and will likely have to have many more. Her husband, Rolando Reyes, has said she is awake but in pain.

“She had a notebook where she writes what she’s trying to say, but when we can’t make it out, she gets frustrated,” Reyes told the Post.


Ramos had been staying with his grandparents for a few months before the deadly shooting spree.

His grandfather had earlier expressed his sorrow and pain over what happened, saying at least two of his friends lost grandchildren in the shooting at the school.

“I haven’t reached out to them because I don’t know how they are going to receive me. I want to tell them how sorry I am. They’ve known me for a long time. It’s up to them. Maybe they’ll never talk to me.”

The grandfather said Ramos spent his days on the phone or asleep on the couch near the front window of the house, but said they had not seen behaviour to suggest the teen was capable of violence.

Texas shooter’s grandmother recovering but unable to speak

“She had a notebook where she writes what she’s trying to say, but when we can’t make it out, she gets frustrated.”

nypost.com

Texas shooter Salvador Ramos’ grandma ‘may never be able to talk again’: kin

The grandmother of Texas mass shooter Salvador Ramos might never talk again after he shot her in the face Tuesday before shooting up Robb Elementary School.

nypost.com

Uvalde gunman's grandmother, shot in face, may never speak again

Before he shot and killed 19 school children and two teachers, the Texas school shooter shot his grandmother in the face.

torontosun.com

 

[spaminator]

Family told their child bled to death waiting for cops in Uvalde
Author of the article:Liz Braun
Publishing date:May 30, 2022 • 10 hours ago • 1 minute read • Join the conversation

As blame continues to be piled on the responding officers in Uvalde, Texas, a story has surfaced that one child “bled out” while waiting for police to act and may have survived had they moved more quickly.


As reported Monday in the New York Post, the story was recounted by Texas State Sen. Roland Gutierrez, who appeared on CNN.

He said the child’s mother had told him this was information she received from a first responder. The mother was allegedly told that the child might have lived if cops hadn’t been slow to move in on the killer.

“Her child had been shot by one bullet through the back, through the kidney area,” Gutierrez told CNN. “The first responder that they eventually talked to her said that their child likely bled out.”

“In that span of 30 or 40 minutes extra, that little girl might have lived.”

A heart-rending story, but highly unlikely. The wounds from an AR-15 assault rifle are unlike other gunshot wounds, and a bullet anywhere near the child’s kidney would have decimated the organ for immediate death, according to a medical expert.


Police are being blamed for not making a move more than 90 minutes after arriving at the scene where 19 children and two teachers were killed. The bigger problem is the proliferation of assault weapons.

As Dr. Heather Sher wrote in The Atlantic about the aftermath of the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, the damage caused by an AR-15 is utterly devastating.

“The high-velocity bullet causes a swath of tissue damage that extends several inches from its path,” she wrote.

“It does not have to actually hit an artery to damage it and cause catastrophic bleeding. Exit wounds can be the size of an orange.”

It should be reiterated that identification of the dead children at Uvalde required a DNA sample from their parents.

What I Saw Treating the Victims From Parkland Should Change the Debate on Guns

They weren’t the first mass-shooting victims the Florida radiologist saw—but their wounds were radically different.

theatlantic.com

Young Texas school shooting victim ‘bled out’ waiting for help: family

One of the young victims of the school shooting in Uvalde, Texas bled to death while waiting for nearly an hour for police to come to the rescue, a first-responder allegedly told her mom.

nypost.com

Family told their child bled to death waiting for cops in Uvalde

As blame continues to be piled on the responding officers in Uvalde, Texas, a story has surfaced that one child “bled out” while waiting for police to act and…

torontosun.com