And again... (Another US Shooting)

taxslave

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So here's a question:

Are the cops who did NOT do their job in the shooting worth defending?

The lack of action by police that day, and readiness, shows a complete failure of procedure; should the police be held responsible, or should it just be a case of "it happens"?
This relates more to the employer than the individual cops. It is not their fault their employer cares so little that proper training is not provided.
 
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taxslave

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I don't think all, but I think there were parents there, yes, who had no guns or vests who were willing to go do the jobs the cops were supposedly there for.

And NONE of them were prepared for this.

Also interesting is this:


"We will find out as much as we can why it was unlocked, or maybe it was locked," Escalon said. "But right now, it appears it was unlocked."

The school district's extensive safety protocols, however, include outside buzz-in door systems, a locked classroom door policy, security guards and more."

So seems the district failed too.

And the republican solution? Only ONE door that is monitored at all times, arming teachers (but hey, can't trust those same teachers with books) and other totally freakin NUTS ideas that are less realistic than the Red Flag and Background checks that are at least sensible.

BTW, what would YOUR solution be?


"The aunt of an 11-year-old who survived the shooting said her niece used the blood of fellow students to play dead when the gunman entered her classroom.

“[She] got some blood and put it on herself so she could pretend she was dead,” Blanca Rivera told NBC 5 Dallas Fort Worth."

Tell me, WHY should that be what kids have to do at school? Tell me, why should kids be "Trained" for this kind of situation? Why should an 11 YEAR OLD GIRL have to KNOW how to do this, just to survive?

Tell me, WHY Republicans won't do a goddamn THING to stop this shit?? Because there is no goddamn money in protecting people but there IS sucking the glocks of the NRA.
I don't think all

Pretty much sums up most of your comments.
 
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Serryah

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This relates more to the employer than the individual cops. It is not their fault their employer cares so little that proper training is not provided.

Except that, they did.

No, it had everything to do with the individual cowards who were afraid of the kid and would get shot and killed.

They wanted the glory and power without the responsibility.

Good guys with guns don't exist.
 
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Jinentonix

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Except that, they did.

No, it had everything to do with the individual cowards who were afraid of the kid and would get shot and killed.

They wanted the glory and power without the responsibility.

Good guys with guns don't exist.
Yes, because I'm sure you have your finger on the pulse of police policy in situations like that. Like what the fuck? You want them to engage in a running firefight inside the school? Blaze away at the windows of the classroom he was barricaded in, in the hopes that they get him without hitting any kids? By all means, give us your expert opinion on how the police should have handled it. I can't wait to hear from an expert on the matter.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Yes, because I'm sure you have your finger on the pulse of police policy in situations like that. Like what the fuck? You want them to engage in a running firefight inside the school? Blaze away at the windows of the classroom he was barricaded in, in the hopes that they get him without hitting any kids? By all means, give us your expert opinion on how the police should have handled it. I can't wait to hear from an expert on the matter.
Since Columbine in 1999, the "protocol" has been to get stuck in and engage the shooter. It's been extensively trained for over 20 years.

So, yes, that's what the experts who design police training want.

But I'm sure you know better than they do.
 

Serryah

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Since Columbine in 1999, the "protocol" has been to get stuck in and engage the shooter. It's been extensively trained for over 20 years.

So, yes, that's what the experts who design police training want.

But I'm sure you know better than they do.

Any excuse to forgive the cops for not doing their damned jobs that day.

And people have to fight that, believe that, because if they admit the cops did not do their jobs that day, the belief of 'good guy with a gun' falls to pieces and then so does their reasoning to arm everyone with as much weapons as they can carry, there goes their excuse to 'arm teachers' (nevermind that teachers are against the idea, plus if you talk to them, it's likely they wouldn't even use a gun themselves if facing a shooter cause, you know, they'd try to talk them down first, the 'use your words' method of deescalation, the thing cops AREN'T trained in) and then their brains would glitch out.
 

captain morgan

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Any excuse to forgive the cops for not doing their damned jobs that day.

And people have to fight that, believe that, because if they admit the cops did not do their jobs that day, the belief of 'good guy with a gun' falls to pieces and then so does their reasoning to arm everyone with as much weapons as they can carry, there goes their excuse to 'arm teachers' (nevermind that teachers are against the idea, plus if you talk to them, it's likely they wouldn't even use a gun themselves if facing a shooter cause, you know, they'd try to talk them down first, the 'use your words' method of deescalation, the thing cops AREN'T trained in) and then their brains would glitch out.
The solution is pretty clear, you should step-up and take over from all these cowardly cops... You seem to know all about things
 

Serryah

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The solution is pretty clear, you should step-up and take over from all these cowardly cops... You seem to know all about things

The cops already know these things. The solution is either hire actual people who want to do the job of police, or rethink the faith message that "Good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns".

As it is, the cops didn't do ANY of what is national policy and what keeps being repeated by police all over, from regular cops to CIA/FBI.

Stop making excuses.
 
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Serryah

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Yeah.

I'm usually pretty sympathetic with the police, but this is simply beyond the Pale.

I'd even wonder if those who support the cops in Texas are as supportive of the police in NS who failed their jobs with that mass shooting.

Like you I sympathize with the police on a lot of things, but when massive fails happen that cost lives, there IS no excusing it.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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The solution is pretty clear, you should step-up and take over from all these cowardly cops... You seem to know all about things
Pretty clear you want to just say "Good game, guys. You did the best you could. Can't win 'em all. Let's go get a beer. Pay no attention to the twenty-one corpses. Just one of those things."
 

taxslave

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Since Columbine in 1999, the "protocol" has been to get stuck in and engage the shooter. It's been extensively trained for over 20 years.

So, yes, that's what the experts who design police training want.

But I'm sure you know better than they do.
So, not knowing how training works for police in the US, do cops in 1 horse hick towns get the same kind of training police in cities get? Kinda relating to firefighter training. Ours is hit and miss with small departments, even though we all use the NFPA standards there is a noticeable difference in ability in many small departments. Also between small departments and the cities. The amount of practical time makes a huge difference to ability.
 
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taxslave

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Any excuse to forgive the cops for not doing their damned jobs that day.

And people have to fight that, believe that, because if they admit the cops did not do their jobs that day, the belief of 'good guy with a gun' falls to pieces and then so does their reasoning to arm everyone with as much weapons as they can carry, there goes their excuse to 'arm teachers' (nevermind that teachers are against the idea, plus if you talk to them, it's likely they wouldn't even use a gun themselves if facing a shooter cause, you know, they'd try to talk them down first, the 'use your words' method of deescalation, the thing cops AREN'T trained in) and then their brains would glitch out.
I disagree. I think that if the conclusion is that the cops didn't(couldn't?) do their jobs, all law abiding citizens must be armed because there is no one to look out for them. It would be " the government has ceased to function at protecting us, so we have to defend ourselves".
 

Serryah

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I disagree. I think that if the conclusion is that the cops didn't(couldn't?) do their jobs, all law abiding citizens must be armed because there is no one to look out for them. It would be " the government has ceased to function at protecting us, so we have to defend ourselves".

You haven't been paying attention to this incident at all, have you?
 

Serryah

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So, not knowing how training works for police in the US, do cops in 1 horse hick towns get the same kind of training police in cities get? Kinda relating to firefighter training. Ours is hit and miss with small departments, even though we all use the NFPA standards there is a noticeable difference in ability in many small departments. Also between small departments and the cities. The amount of practical time makes a huge difference to ability.


Yeah, they weren't trained or equipped at all...
 
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Tecumsehsbones

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So, not knowing how training works for police in the US, do cops in 1 horse hick towns get the same kind of training police in cities get? Kinda relating to firefighter training. Ours is hit and miss with small departments, even though we all use the NFPA standards there is a noticeable difference in ability in many small departments. Also between small departments and the cities. The amount of practical time makes a huge difference to ability.
It is amazing the lengths to which you will go to justify nineteen armed, armoured, trained adults who take a paycheck to protect and serve, not having the balls to get stuck in, but with plenty of mojo to tackle and tase the people who were willing to get stuck in.

Is there anybody so bad that you wouldn't lick his boots if they hung a tin badge on him?
 
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