An Apology

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
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I didn’t look into the thread until now (after having posted one post). I assumed most posts will be of a flaming nature directed towards me (after all, I am a newbie here, how dare I rock the boat?). A couple of posters (like Niflmir) do make a lot of sense.

As a rule, I never respond to flaming posts.

It's not. In Canada you have to prove damages in order to collect damages. Unless it can be shown that a quantifiable ($$$) amount of damage was done, there is no grounds for a suit.

Not quite correct, Johnny. I am not a lawyer, but you know, I am a know it all. A lawyer friend of mine explained it to me in layman’s terms.

If you start a sentence, ‘it is my opinion that’, you can say just about anything, it is not actionable. It is just an opinion, and an opinion can be wrong. I remember a few years ago Oprah said some nasty things about the way they grow meat in USA. Meat growers lost millions of dollars as a result and they launched a lawsuit again Oprah for the loss of income. The suit was tossed out. What Oprah said was only her personal opinion and she was entitled to it.

But when somebody makes a factual statement, prima facia it is actionable. The person who stated the facts could be asked to prove them in a court of law. However, action can be launched does not mean that it will be launched. There are several grounds for a suit. One is loss of income, of course. Or you could show that you are likely to lose income in the future because of the untruths. Or it could even be simply defamation of character (a person falsely claiming that another person is not a doctor would come into this category).

I remember a few years ago NBC did a news feature on GM. It contained a few inaccuracies. Within days, GM launched a lawsuit, seeking billions of dollars in damages. There was no way GM had lost any income in just a couple of days. It was about potential loss of income and defamation of character. NBC apologized and GM dropped the lawsuit.

So there are many grounds for launching a lawsuit. The anonymity of internet is another obstacle to overcome, but an enterprising lawyer probably would be able to overcome it.

But the point is, if you were a moderator or an owner, would you want to take the risk at the end of the day? I know I wouldn’t. If one poster is making factual statements (without offering any evidence) about another poster and that other poster is claiming that they are lies, I (as a moderator o the owner) would want it to stop.

While I have said it repeatedly that I have no intention of suing anybody (it will be a dark day indeed when I care what an anonymous blogger thinks or says about me), it could happen to another poster, and that poster may not be so charitable. He may sue everybody in sight.

The risk however small, is not worth taking. Evidently moderators also felt the same way. They acted properly.
 
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Niflmir

A modern nomad
Dec 18, 2006
3,460
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Leiden, the Netherlands
Ok, this one is a little closer to home, as in, the Supreme Court of BC awarded the guy $180k for being trolled.

In their natural and ordinary meaning, the Words and FAQ and Continued Words meant and were understood to bear the false and defamatory meanings that the plaintiff is a stalker, abuser, harasser, criminal, evil, liar, killer, sexual predator, pervert, pedophile, coward, manipulator and hate monger who threatens others with death and violence, betrays confidences and is untrustworthy, is dangerous, abuses, impregnates and abandons women and publishes their personal information, encourages and actively assists and incites vulnerable people into committing suicide, and deserves to be jailed and killed.

For any Canadian trying to prove the internet is serious business, I recommend Roger McConchie. Also a lot of money. Probably need a lot of free time too.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
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I have never believed that your wife is a doctor, or that your son is in medical school. In fact I would be surprised if you are even married.
If you want people to think of you as an adult, start acting like one.

Extrafire, the important phrase here is ‘you never believed’. Whatever you believe is your personal opinion. It matters only to you. So you are free to believe anything you want, there is no problem. It is childish, it is puerile (if some poster gives some information about himself, I assume it to be true until it turns out to be false, I give him the benefit of doubt), but it isn’t actionable. I may think that you have two heads and four arms, so what?

It is totally different from saying that you know for a fact that my wife is not a doctor (or that I am not married). Opinions, beliefs etc. are no big deal. Factual statement are a different thing.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
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Toronto
It is totally different from saying that you know for a fact that my wife is not a doctor (or that I am not married). Opinions, beliefs etc. are no big deal. Factual statement are a different thing.

What is factual on the internet? Anything you say about your self is a fact? You claim to be a billionaire and someone calls you on it and that is libel? I doubt it.
 

bobnoorduyn

Council Member
Nov 26, 2008
2,262
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Mountain Veiw County
This childish shyte, called around until he found someone at the GTAA that knew who I was and my company name and proceeded to tell all sorts of tales of my supposed criminal activities at Pearson Int Airport. To the point that my security clearance was revoked and my contracts suspended. I had to hire a lawyer and jump through hoops to get my clearance back and get my contracts reinstated. It was eventually proven that I was in no way acting in any way criminal. The Police were informed by not only my lawyer, but the authorities at the GTAA and ThyssenKrupp. The individual was found and quess what he was charged with?

Nothing...not a damn thing. Not even mischief. Whe I queried my lawyer about suing the man, I was told to cough up some pretty big bucks, before he would even put pen to to paper. His advice, move on. It wasn't worth the time and aggrivation.

Should've shopped around for a better solicitor, one who needed money and was on your side. What this person did needn't be criminal, only malicious. If malice was the only reason, and things said were untrue you would have a case. If however they thought, or convinced a judge that they were acting in the best interest of security you might have a problem. I've seen folks win judgements on flimsier evidence, usually a nominal judgement, but at least its satisfaction.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
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Toronto
"In addition to the above, the defendant may claim that the allegedly defamatory statement is not actually capable of being defamatory—an insulting statement that does not actually harm someone's reputation is prima facie not libelous."

Hence the libel being directed towards an internet identity, where damage to a person is negligible other then their ego.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
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Should've shopped around for a better solicitor, one who needed money and was on your side. What this person did needn't be criminal, only malicious. If malice was the only reason, and things said were untrue you would have a case. If however they thought, or convinced a judge that they were acting in the best interest of security you might have a problem. I've seen folks win judgements on flimsier evidence, usually a nominal judgement, but at least its satisfaction.

Quite right, some judgments are won on the flimsiest of evidence; some others cannot be won even with tons of evidence. It depends upon various factors, the lawyers, the judges, the precedence, the jurisdiction etc.

But the point is, would you take the risk at the end of the day if you were a moderator or an owner? It isn’t worth it. Much better and safer to put an end to such activity.

Owner supports the form out of the goodness of his heart (at least I don’t see any other motive for it). Moderators are volunteers; they donate their time and their efforts. Why would the want this hanging over their heads?
 

bobnoorduyn

Council Member
Nov 26, 2008
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Mountain Veiw County
Everybody's talking about criminal charges, civil suits, torts, sue, sue, sue, gimme my pund of flesh. We have a small claims court system folks, they don't allow barristers or solicitors, you represent yourself. It's cheap and can clear the air quite quickly. Unfortunately Ontario has the lowest threshold for awards at $10,000, but hey, its better that a kick in the arse. You think you got a case? Take it to Judge Judy, or Wapner, or whoever. Just remember, collecting a judgement is just as hard no matter which court awards it.;-)
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
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an insulting statement that does not actually harm someone's reputation is prima facie not libelous."

Quite right Durka, that is why all kinds of name calling goes on and nobody thinks anything of it. But a factual statement is in a different category. Where the clear intent is name calling, a factual statement perhaps may not matter all that much (e.g. your mother wears army boots, while a factual statement, is clearly meant as an insult and may not be actionable).

But factual statements such as somebody is not a doctor, somebody works at such and such a place, they are different thing altogether.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
129
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Toronto
an insulting statement that does not actually harm someone's reputation is prima facie not libelous."

Quite right Durka, that is why all kinds of name calling goes on and nobody thinks anything of it. But a factual statement is in a different category. Where the clear intent is name calling, a factual statement perhaps may not matter all that much (e.g. your mother wears army boots, while a factual statement, is clearly meant as an insult and may not be actionable).

But factual statements such as somebody is not a doctor, somebody works at such and such a place, they are different thing altogether.

You have not proven in any way that your wife is a doctor nor is it common knowledge that she is a doctor, so where is the libel?
 

GreenFish66

House Member
Apr 16, 2008
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Wow ..This is still goin on..Popular thread...Sorry sirJosephporter for saying those things..I didn't mean to upset you so much..Had I known it would have been such a big deal I wouldn't have said it..It won't happen again....

That's ok cannuck ..The situation got a little out of hand ..Agreed ,Shouldn't have went this far...Apology accepted .

Come on guys can't we all just get along.It's like a house of commons.."question period" around here...

Makes for a great debate though...



The make up kiss and hug aren't necessary though ..Please and Thank-you

I know a lot of people who don't get involved with the court rooms normally end up best buddies if they can talk it out,come to there own peace...

and The others who don't become friends afterward

...well....Never mind..That doesn't matter in this case..lol

B.GreenFish(66)
 

bobnoorduyn

Council Member
Nov 26, 2008
2,262
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Mountain Veiw County
But the point is, would you take the risk at the end of the day if you were a moderator or an owner? It isn’t worth it. Much better and safer to put an end to such activity.

Which is why I'm cautious about what I say, I don't give legal advice, only suggestions and/or referemces. I give my opinion free of charge, I've been coached on how to be careful, but I still stretch the limits on occasion, and been called on the carpet more than a few times. But I do have good lawyers, who would be really p*ssed if they had to represent me in a nonsense cybercase.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
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Not directed at anyone - This crap should stop - it is at times what you would discipline or correct your children's behavior on - It is also driving people away from participating in the forums or has anyone noticed?

People with major differences have a couple of choices - Go into the pit and slug it out or PM -
Either way lets us all get on with some good and pertinent discussion -
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
7,046
43
48
Everyone is talking crap. Each of the two posters have said something about the other. Each one equally nasty and no one knows beyond a doubt who is telling the truth or if either of them is telling the truth. I told Cannuck that if he knew SJP personally as he stated to send me a pm with SJP's first name. I got nothing. SJP himself posted a pm he sent to me. I felt it was rather strongly worded and probably should not have been shared. I think that once again, it's time for everyone to give up on this and get on with life. Neither of them can sue the other. Only the lawyers would make any $ from it. I repeat - they both said things about each other - in effect - provoking each other so it would probably even be thrown out of Small Claims. IMO!!!!!
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
56
48
Ontario
Wow ..This is still goin on..Popular thread...Sorry sirJosephporter for saying those things..I didn't mean to upset you so much..Had I known it would have been such a big deal I wouldn't have said it..It won't happen again....

That's ok cannuck ..The situation got a little out of hand ..Agreed ,Shouldn't have went this far...Apology accepted .

Come on guys can't we all just get along.It's like a house of commons.."question period" around here...

Quite right, Greenfish. If he will apologize on the lines you indicated, I will accept it on the line you indicated and let bygones be bygones. While I don’t think we will ever be friends, there is no reason for all the rancor between us, (at least none that I can see).
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,666
113
Northern Ontario,
Kreskin: Does that mean that if I tell everybody on the forum that I'm an astronaut and I flown the space shuttle and if somebody calls me a liar on this I can sue for damages if it happens to be the truth?:lol:
And also if I tried to put the screws to the moderating team by insinuating a threat of a lawsuit on the forum to force them into submission and have my way like an overgrown child?
This to me would mean real Bulsh*t and I wouldn't blame Andem for banning me!!!
 
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