Americans against Canadians???
- Thread starter Brazilian guest
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cnn has an office in the pentagon what does that tell you as far as the goverment telling you that there going to test your :? kids and tell me if there nuts or have to be put on drugs how is that protecting you from the big bad muslim terrorist its not its called control wake up
Please don't call me a traitor. I still have family and close friends in Canada and when you call me a traitor, you are telling me that I have abandoned them aswell. If you've understood anything that I've said, you'd know that I am proud of who I am and where I'm from...I just don't want to see it wash away into a liberal wasteland, gerryh. I'm espcecially surprised to get such a response from a fellow Albertan.
As for Mrmom2, I'm sorry but I just don't see where you're going with this. I think you should spend more time working to keep your country a great place to live and less time scowling at others who see things differently than you. I just don't think that your cheap shots get anyone anywhere. I am awake and if you've been reading my posts all the way through instead of fixating on the first thing that annoys you about my opinions, you'd also know that I just finished expressing my distain and mistrust of the media. If you want to point fingers at government intervention in the media (your comment about CNN and the Pentagon...which I have not dismissed), you should also remember that CBC and the Canadian gov't are in bed together. You should also be outraged when the CBC occassionally decides to punish Don Cherry for speaking his mind. Freedom of speech exists in Canada but it sometimes doesn't fit into the CBC's agenda. This isn't a case of my Dad's bigger than yours, its that scandal exists everywhere...we need to accept that and be responsible for gathering as many unbiased facts as possible before forming an opinion on something. Sometimes that's just not possible and so we have maintain some kind of objectivity.
Let's start speaking to each other with respect and I think we'll be able to answer Brazilian Guest's question a little better. We might even have some meaningful dialogue.
As for Mrmom2, I'm sorry but I just don't see where you're going with this. I think you should spend more time working to keep your country a great place to live and less time scowling at others who see things differently than you. I just don't think that your cheap shots get anyone anywhere. I am awake and if you've been reading my posts all the way through instead of fixating on the first thing that annoys you about my opinions, you'd also know that I just finished expressing my distain and mistrust of the media. If you want to point fingers at government intervention in the media (your comment about CNN and the Pentagon...which I have not dismissed), you should also remember that CBC and the Canadian gov't are in bed together. You should also be outraged when the CBC occassionally decides to punish Don Cherry for speaking his mind. Freedom of speech exists in Canada but it sometimes doesn't fit into the CBC's agenda. This isn't a case of my Dad's bigger than yours, its that scandal exists everywhere...we need to accept that and be responsible for gathering as many unbiased facts as possible before forming an opinion on something. Sometimes that's just not possible and so we have maintain some kind of objectivity.
Let's start speaking to each other with respect and I think we'll be able to answer Brazilian Guest's question a little better. We might even have some meaningful dialogue.
RE: Americans against Can
Your views are out of step with most Canadians, FormerCanuck. Apparently you recognized that at least enough that you moved to a country that much less concerned about the well-being of people and the planet and more concerned about the personal wealth of a select few.
I hope you are happy there, but I find it insulting that you would come to a Canadian site to tell us how wrong most Canadians are after having left the country. I find it laughable that you haven't answered any of the points I made in response to you.
You made some assertions that don't hold up to scrutiny, yet you ignored the challenge to them.
Your views are out of step with most Canadians, FormerCanuck. Apparently you recognized that at least enough that you moved to a country that much less concerned about the well-being of people and the planet and more concerned about the personal wealth of a select few.
I hope you are happy there, but I find it insulting that you would come to a Canadian site to tell us how wrong most Canadians are after having left the country. I find it laughable that you haven't answered any of the points I made in response to you.
You made some assertions that don't hold up to scrutiny, yet you ignored the challenge to them.
Re: RE: Americans against Canadians???
Another story about how things happened in Canada's history:
and why
The deportation is the dark stain on Canada's history, the Acadiens were deported from Nova Scotia from 1755 to 1764 in large numbers in the only organized Ethnic Cleansing and Genocide episode in North America. The Cajuns (acadians) of Louisiana are descendants of those people who were illegally expelled from the Province of Nova Scotia by an iillegal order and scattered to prevent their "taking over" of Acadie (Nova Scotia & New Brunswick)! Their story is told in the story of "Evangeline" by Henry wordsworth LONGFELLOW. The deportation was illegal and steps are being taken to rectify it in the world court system, as it looks, most of Louisiana is basically descendants of people illegally deprived of their British Citizenship at the time and resitiution of our citizenship and status in Canada is what being sought.
Do search of the GRAND DERANGEMENT, Exile of the Acadiens and Warren Perrin Petition for a detailed information about this episode in history. Hint: A Cajun is suing the Queen! Since Canada has signed the treaty recognizing the World Court, the Treaty on Genocide (with NO Statue of Limitations) it could get interesting.
The coin has two sides Mooseskin Johnny and I wonder if the sentence "That was a long time ago, but we have not always been friends." has a hidden meaning?
If anybody has a gripe in North America, it is the Native Americans and the Acadiens who have the nost to gripe about!
Mooseskin Johnny said:
Another story about how things happened in Canada's history:
and why
The deportation is the dark stain on Canada's history, the Acadiens were deported from Nova Scotia from 1755 to 1764 in large numbers in the only organized Ethnic Cleansing and Genocide episode in North America. The Cajuns (acadians) of Louisiana are descendants of those people who were illegally expelled from the Province of Nova Scotia by an iillegal order and scattered to prevent their "taking over" of Acadie (Nova Scotia & New Brunswick)! Their story is told in the story of "Evangeline" by Henry wordsworth LONGFELLOW. The deportation was illegal and steps are being taken to rectify it in the world court system, as it looks, most of Louisiana is basically descendants of people illegally deprived of their British Citizenship at the time and resitiution of our citizenship and status in Canada is what being sought.
Do search of the GRAND DERANGEMENT, Exile of the Acadiens and Warren Perrin Petition for a detailed information about this episode in history. Hint: A Cajun is suing the Queen! Since Canada has signed the treaty recognizing the World Court, the Treaty on Genocide (with NO Statue of Limitations) it could get interesting.
The coin has two sides Mooseskin Johnny and I wonder if the sentence "That was a long time ago, but we have not always been friends." has a hidden meaning?
If anybody has a gripe in North America, it is the Native Americans and the Acadiens who have the nost to gripe about!
I don't disagree Martin, but it isn't the only stain. What we've done (and continue to do) to our natives is worse. We also interred Ukrainians during WWI, unemployed men during the Great Depression, and Japanese during WWII. There are several other episodes in Canadian history that we are less than proud of. Our record is far from spotless.
formercanuck i was not pesonally attacking you i was just trying to make the point what does physcologicly testing every child twice a year got to do with terrorism I don't see any politcians up here trying to pass this kind of legislation or the national id card which have already been passed down there
RE: Americans against Can
They're pushing (very quietly) for the ID card here Mr. Mom. They were pushing harder before the last election, but it hasn't stopped, just moved to the back burner to simmer for a while.
The psych testing hasn't come up yet here, thankfully.
They're pushing (very quietly) for the ID card here Mr. Mom. They were pushing harder before the last election, but it hasn't stopped, just moved to the back burner to simmer for a while.
The psych testing hasn't come up yet here, thankfully.
You left Canada to go to the states for money..... you abondoned this country for nothing more than to increase your personal wealth. This is after taking advantage of our subsidized educational system..... you have abondoned Canada and all who stay and support this country. You ARE a traitor and as such should have your citizenship revoked.
Let me just say this...Reverend Blair, I believe I at least tried to respond to people's challenges (at least without speculating). I do not have a checklist in front of me to make sure I reply to every statement made. Many of mine have been ignored too..don't let it hurt your feelings. 
I am not running for office here, just joining into the dialogue. Somehow I don't see that as laughable. What was interesting (and this is not a shot) is that you have nailed the U.S to the cross for their past/present "outrages" yet in your reply to Martin you ackowledged Canada's shady past. We could also discuss the Mounties killing bands of Natives while we're at it (a good friend of mine is a Mountie and ackowledges this travesty as well), but where do we go from there? Do we try to gauge which events were worse? Do we say that slavery in America was worse than Japanese internment in Canada? (Yes, I realize it happened here too). Do we say that slave labo(u)r using Chinese immigrants to build the CNR was less of a travesty than syhilis experiments on poor black communities in the south? I wouldn't think we'd get anywhere that way. This is the point I've been trying to make all along. Everyone preaches their own rightousness and we all see our own respective world through rose colo(u)red glasses. At the same time however, we all fail to see our own faults. Rev. Blair mentioned the less than spotless record Canada holds and many Americans do the same. I think its also important to point out (with respect to politics) that although I align myself with conservatives, so do most people in Alberta. The same is true in the United States. Almost half of the country considers themselves liberals. We've seen evidence of this in the past two elections. This represents a regional difference of opinion, not an international one. What I am getting at here is that its time we stop placing all Americans into one stereotypical basket. As I remember, that was one of the things that annoyed many Canadians the most, at a personal level, about Americans...the stereotypes (living in igloos, etc.) I would say, to be fair, the same type of labelling should not be imposed on your neighbo(u)rs to the south. Like I said, Americans are good people and the same can be said about Canadians.
Regarding the legislation for psychological testing and id cards...for one thing there are more ridiculous bills and motions that pass through Congress everyday than any of us can imagine. We only hear about the things the media can use to push their agenda. Honestly, I wouldn't give much credit to those bills. The process of getting them through the House of Representatives, the Committees, the Senate and finally, the White House is a long road to haul and I believe the citizens of this country will draw a line on how many civil liberties can be "modified" for the sake of security. Just because a bill has passed one or more of these road blocks does not mean it will ever come into law. I'd also like to point out that the id cards are not a post 9-11 concept. The Clinton adminstration pushed for these in the 90s also. There are many nut jobs in Washington but there are also quite a few in Ottawa.
Gerryh, speaking of attaching labels...yours astounds me. Throughout the whole debate, I have expressed a fondness for where I was born, who I am as a result of my upbringing, and certainly for all of my friends and family who still live in Canada. Short of firing a shot in anger at a Canadian, there is no reason to call me a traitor. Above all however, you have no idea why I moved to the U.S. Please don't make assumptions. Frankly you have decided to get personal with this and that is simply unacceptable. Now you're telling me that I don't "belong" in this forum because I am saying things that counter your opinion. Can we call that non-racial segregation? This has nothing to do with opinion. I don't feel that I should have to justify my actions to you but the fact is that I am married to a U.S citizen; she is a beautiful human being and that is why I am living here. I went to University in the United States simply because my program of study was not available in Canada. I did not move here for money or personal wealth at the expense of anyone else however I am proud that everything I have accomplished was as a result of hard work and not hand outs. I am not implying anything here. At the same time, I think that working towards a comfortable living with a secure retirement is nothing to be ashamed of. I think your comment about revoking my Canadian citizenship is irresponsible and only demonstrates intollerance on your part. What gives you the right? It must be awful being so angry all the time. My wife and I have a wonderful child together and I will teach him to be proud of his dual heritage also. You would have to admit, this is not inline with treason. Please do not label me...you know nothing about me and know nothing about you. I have extended you that courtesy, I would hope you could do the same for me. Do all of us a favo(u)r and show the world that Canadians are good people by being respectful to others and then you won't have to be so angry about what other nations are up to...you'll know that you're better than them, right?
By the way, I still love hockey and I still cheer for Team Canada in international torunaments. I guess if living in the U.S makes me a bad person, then I really must be confused.
I am not running for office here, just joining into the dialogue. Somehow I don't see that as laughable. What was interesting (and this is not a shot) is that you have nailed the U.S to the cross for their past/present "outrages" yet in your reply to Martin you ackowledged Canada's shady past. We could also discuss the Mounties killing bands of Natives while we're at it (a good friend of mine is a Mountie and ackowledges this travesty as well), but where do we go from there? Do we try to gauge which events were worse? Do we say that slavery in America was worse than Japanese internment in Canada? (Yes, I realize it happened here too). Do we say that slave labo(u)r using Chinese immigrants to build the CNR was less of a travesty than syhilis experiments on poor black communities in the south? I wouldn't think we'd get anywhere that way. This is the point I've been trying to make all along. Everyone preaches their own rightousness and we all see our own respective world through rose colo(u)red glasses. At the same time however, we all fail to see our own faults. Rev. Blair mentioned the less than spotless record Canada holds and many Americans do the same. I think its also important to point out (with respect to politics) that although I align myself with conservatives, so do most people in Alberta. The same is true in the United States. Almost half of the country considers themselves liberals. We've seen evidence of this in the past two elections. This represents a regional difference of opinion, not an international one. What I am getting at here is that its time we stop placing all Americans into one stereotypical basket. As I remember, that was one of the things that annoyed many Canadians the most, at a personal level, about Americans...the stereotypes (living in igloos, etc.) I would say, to be fair, the same type of labelling should not be imposed on your neighbo(u)rs to the south. Like I said, Americans are good people and the same can be said about Canadians. Regarding the legislation for psychological testing and id cards...for one thing there are more ridiculous bills and motions that pass through Congress everyday than any of us can imagine. We only hear about the things the media can use to push their agenda. Honestly, I wouldn't give much credit to those bills. The process of getting them through the House of Representatives, the Committees, the Senate and finally, the White House is a long road to haul and I believe the citizens of this country will draw a line on how many civil liberties can be "modified" for the sake of security. Just because a bill has passed one or more of these road blocks does not mean it will ever come into law. I'd also like to point out that the id cards are not a post 9-11 concept. The Clinton adminstration pushed for these in the 90s also. There are many nut jobs in Washington but there are also quite a few in Ottawa.
Gerryh, speaking of attaching labels...yours astounds me. Throughout the whole debate, I have expressed a fondness for where I was born, who I am as a result of my upbringing, and certainly for all of my friends and family who still live in Canada. Short of firing a shot in anger at a Canadian, there is no reason to call me a traitor. Above all however, you have no idea why I moved to the U.S. Please don't make assumptions. Frankly you have decided to get personal with this and that is simply unacceptable. Now you're telling me that I don't "belong" in this forum because I am saying things that counter your opinion. Can we call that non-racial segregation? This has nothing to do with opinion. I don't feel that I should have to justify my actions to you but the fact is that I am married to a U.S citizen; she is a beautiful human being and that is why I am living here. I went to University in the United States simply because my program of study was not available in Canada. I did not move here for money or personal wealth at the expense of anyone else however I am proud that everything I have accomplished was as a result of hard work and not hand outs. I am not implying anything here. At the same time, I think that working towards a comfortable living with a secure retirement is nothing to be ashamed of. I think your comment about revoking my Canadian citizenship is irresponsible and only demonstrates intollerance on your part. What gives you the right? It must be awful being so angry all the time. My wife and I have a wonderful child together and I will teach him to be proud of his dual heritage also. You would have to admit, this is not inline with treason. Please do not label me...you know nothing about me and know nothing about you. I have extended you that courtesy, I would hope you could do the same for me. Do all of us a favo(u)r and show the world that Canadians are good people by being respectful to others and then you won't have to be so angry about what other nations are up to...you'll know that you're better than them, right?
By the way, I still love hockey and I still cheer for Team Canada in international torunaments. I guess if living in the U.S makes me a bad person, then I really must be confused.
My comments were made in response to your post, so I have to assume that read them. You do say you are here for a dialogue, after all. They debunked your claim that medical is cheaper in the US for one. That simply isn't true.
That's because Canada is not innocent. You'll notice that nobody called me anti-Canadian for mentioning those things though. I've also noticed that when I criticize England, France, Russia, or Indonesia for doing things that I find reprehensible, I am not accused of being "anti" thise countries.
The biggest difference between the US and the rest of the developed world is that they continue to harm others for their own profit. They do so almost gleefully. They do it under the supposition that anybody who dare criticise them is merely being anti-American. Anybody who claims that is, quite simply, full of crap. According to that US election, that covers about half the country.
Still, I judge the American people one by one, based on their knowledge and their views. You will find, FC, that the negative things said about he United States here (and elsewhere) have to do with the actions of the US government and not with the American people. More than that, if you take the time to actually read and understand what the founding fathers of the United States wanted for their country, you will begin to comprehend that such criticisms are not anti-American, but instead very much pro-American.
Rev. Blair: I do not see how anything I've said contradicts my intention to participate in intelligent dialogue. Also, I'd ask you to remember that your comments do not "debunk" anything I say...it is simply your opinion. I am not here to try and sway you or change your mind about anything...only to provoke thought and discussion. Also, I don't know what sources you use for your health care claims, but I have lived in various parts of both countries and thus have some hands-on experience with both systems. I also discuss this at length with relatives in Canada and friends/co-workers/relatives in the U.S. I am not an expert either (who can be?) but I do know what I've experienced here and north of the border. Admitedly. health care becomes critical in the U.S if a Canadian gets sick while travelling here (but let's face it, the system is not here to accomodate to non-residents) or if someone who is less fortunate doesn't apply for medicare (if they don't have company provided benefits). I am trying not to be so "matter-of-fact" here but there's no way you can tell me that I pay more for my health insurance here versus what I'd pay in my home province. I know what I paid there and I know that customer service was not a variable either. I also know that I lost 40% of my paycheck to the Feds in Ottawa and the good people in the Alberta capitol (that's sarcasm). Again, I think we need to distinguish opinion from fact.
I am pleased to hear you are objective about Americans as individuals. You're the first person to make that statement. I did address the U.S gov't policy issue in a previous post though when I said a new administration is only four years away. Governments come and go and we can only hope that things will improve down the road...that goes for every nation.
I would like to comment on your statement about the founding fathers though. By saying "if you take the time to actually read and understand what the founding fathers of the United States wanted for their country, you will begin to comprehend that such criticisms are not anti-American, but instead very much pro-American", you are insinuating that I haven't researched these topics. Again, you are making assumptions about me personally and I just don't think that is fair. I'll let you know that I do know what the founding fathers said and I do understand what it all meant. I am very familiar with these topics and I guess you must be too if you took the time to look into it aswell. In any case, I am not calling you anti-American, nor have I insinuated that your comments about Canada's imperfections are anti-Canadian. I would think that the same courtesy could be extended to me; others, however, would call me a traitor.
Brazilian Guest was asking about relations between Canada and the U.S because he/she is studying Canada specifically (or at least that's what I gathered). If so, why hasn't anybody brought up the perpetual struggle within Canada's borders. I mean if we're going to talk about relations, it seems poignant to talk about how Canadians can't get along with each other. I'm not trying to deflect criticism of US policy but lets face it, why should Canada occupy themselves with protesting decisions made in the White House when we can't live in harmony inside our own borders. The east hates the west, the west resents the east, Quebec hates everyone, and a lot of English speaking Canadians feel distain for Quebec. I know these struggles occur around the world (Isreal, Northern Ireland, Cyprus) and others may make Canada's problems seem tame. Nonetheless, it sends a message to the international community that Canada is not at peace with itself. What am I getting at here? Let's face it, Canada and the U.S are both very diverse countries and the differences between them are not always shared by all of their respective populations. You will find a great deal of support for the U.S in Alberta and very little in B.C. In California, you will find very little support for the Bush administration, but a great deal in the midwest.
Its just food for thought...let's not start a cyber war here.
I am pleased to hear you are objective about Americans as individuals. You're the first person to make that statement. I did address the U.S gov't policy issue in a previous post though when I said a new administration is only four years away. Governments come and go and we can only hope that things will improve down the road...that goes for every nation.
I would like to comment on your statement about the founding fathers though. By saying "if you take the time to actually read and understand what the founding fathers of the United States wanted for their country, you will begin to comprehend that such criticisms are not anti-American, but instead very much pro-American", you are insinuating that I haven't researched these topics. Again, you are making assumptions about me personally and I just don't think that is fair. I'll let you know that I do know what the founding fathers said and I do understand what it all meant. I am very familiar with these topics and I guess you must be too if you took the time to look into it aswell. In any case, I am not calling you anti-American, nor have I insinuated that your comments about Canada's imperfections are anti-Canadian. I would think that the same courtesy could be extended to me; others, however, would call me a traitor.
Brazilian Guest was asking about relations between Canada and the U.S because he/she is studying Canada specifically (or at least that's what I gathered). If so, why hasn't anybody brought up the perpetual struggle within Canada's borders. I mean if we're going to talk about relations, it seems poignant to talk about how Canadians can't get along with each other. I'm not trying to deflect criticism of US policy but lets face it, why should Canada occupy themselves with protesting decisions made in the White House when we can't live in harmony inside our own borders. The east hates the west, the west resents the east, Quebec hates everyone, and a lot of English speaking Canadians feel distain for Quebec. I know these struggles occur around the world (Isreal, Northern Ireland, Cyprus) and others may make Canada's problems seem tame. Nonetheless, it sends a message to the international community that Canada is not at peace with itself. What am I getting at here? Let's face it, Canada and the U.S are both very diverse countries and the differences between them are not always shared by all of their respective populations. You will find a great deal of support for the U.S in Alberta and very little in B.C. In California, you will find very little support for the Bush administration, but a great deal in the midwest.
Its just food for thought...let's not start a cyber war here.
When a study is done that looks at the costs of your medical care, the current costs of our medical care, and the cost that our system would carry if certain plans and programs were implemented, that is not, as you would have us believe, my opinion. Instead it is a fact based on research done by professionals.
Several studies have found the same thing time and again...that your system costs more per capita and if we were to institute a similar system it would cost us more per capita. That's not my opinion, it's the result of research.
At that point you are entitled to you opinion, even if it is demonstrably wrong.
Four years can be an eternity in world events, especially when there is a regime as short-sighted and predatory as the Bush government is.
We shouldn't have to state that we are objective about Americans. It is apparent in many of the posts here and elsewhere. The cries of rampant anti-Americanism are unfounded and if you took the time to actually read the posts here, you would have quickly realized that.
Because most Canadians get along just fine. The population of Quebec is not terribly interested in separatism right now, the separatists in Alberta have shown themselves to represent only a tiny percentage of the province, and the rest of us get along pretty damned well.
There are differences between regions, but to try to present that as a country on the verge of collapse at this point is simply not accurate.
Then you agree that the Bush regime's policies, especially as they relate to religion and personal freedoms, are completely anti-American?
