Americans against Canadians???

[Reverend Blair]

This has nothing to do with either Martin or "W"...they're just puppets. The system is what matters in this duscussion.

As leaders of their respective countries, it has a lot to do with it. They both represent business elites, they are both corporatists. They are the living embodiment of the system.

That's exactly the point....that's union mentality (it doesn't have to make sennse and often doesn't), at least in the US. I've seen it first hand.

That is not, as you purport, the union mentality. I doubt you have much experience with unions or the people who work in union jobs. What you are describing is the expression of the statement, "They pretend to pay me, and I pretend to work." That isn't a "union" mentality, it is the mentality of somebody who has been treated badly by their employer.

I guess that's why its called a conspiracy

Ah, yes...try to label something a conspiracy to imply that that the person speaking about it is a looney tune. A couple of things...

Conspiracies do happen, that's why there are criminal charges that begin, "Conspiracy to commit..."

The tact of trying to write things off as "just a conspiracy theory" to denigrate somebody became popular after the movie of the same name. Funny thing about that movie, the guy with the theories turned out to be right.

Final point...the underfunding of Canadian healthcare is well-documented. The Feds cut back payments to the provinces and the provinces had no choice but to cut funding as a result. All you have to do is read the budgets to see it happening. At the same time US health-providers were trying to get into Canada via the FTA and NAFTA.

You can call it a conspiracy theory if you want, FC. Theories are based on observation and so though. I'm sure you understand that.

 

[Twila]

RE: Americans against Can

Personally I would rather have no job than a job where I am treated like garbage, and thats what a lot of non union companies are like. Personally I would rather have no job than a job where I am treated like garbage, and thats what a lot of non union companies are like.

My fiance is union. His work environment is still shit. The employees are treated like shit. They are sometimes over worked with no coffee or lunch breaks.

Unions were suppose to be there to ensure a proper working environment. In some situations they become corrupt. In some situations non union can be better. I'm not union. I don't have to wait for somebody else to fix the light bulb. I never have to look at my job description to see if I can perform a job. I'm fortunate enough to have a excellent boss. Excellent benefits. Time off when I need it (regardless of # of sickdays or holiday time) and the chance to learn skills that in most places I'd need to go to school to learn and still start at the bottom.

But this is my lucky situations.

Sometimes unions are good. Sometimes there bad. Sometimes non union jobs are bad and sometimes they are very good.

 

[FormerCanuck]

As leaders of their respective countries, it has a lot to do with it. They both represent business elites, they are both corporatists. They are the living embodiment of the system.

That is true except when we are speaking hypothetically or about a philosophy in general, there is no timeline and thus individuals are somewhat irrelevant to my discussion.

That is not, as you purport, the union mentality. I doubt you have much experience with unions or the people who work in union jobs. What you are describing is the expression of the statement, "They pretend to pay me, and I pretend to work." That isn't a "union" mentality, it is the mentality of somebody who has been treated badly by their employer.

I have a great deal of experience with union people; that experience grows daily and has been compounded over the course of several years, in three different companies, and in three different States. I don't know what else I have to do before I can call myself "experienced" in these matters. I know, I know, I'm just a schmuck in here but nonetheless, you are speculating about my work experience; something no one in here could possibliy know anything about. I guess I could add that you are speculating about how unions operate in the US. You don't work here, you probably never have, and judging from your stance on the issues, you would probably never want to either (maybe that's speculation on my part). My point is that unions are abused here, by the members themselves and especially the union bosses in the US...maybe not all of them but it is certainly an issue with many companies who, by the way, also treat their non-union employees well. Sometimes, companies are held prisoner by their own union workforce. I am not speculating about that...I've been there, done that.

Ah, yes...try to label something a conspiracy to imply that that the person speaking about it is a looney tune. A couple of things...
Conspiracies do happen, that's why there are criminal charges that begin, "Conspiracy to commit..."
The tact of trying to write things off as "just a conspiracy theory" to denigrate somebody became popular after the movie of the same name. Funny thing about that movie, the guy with the theories turned out to be right.

The first part is almost a riddle to me, or maybe its just past my bed time. I wouldn't dream of belittling someone's opinion in here since that would also make me a hypocrit. I haven't even thought of making someone out to be a "looney toon" by slapping a meaningless, generic conspiracy label on something. I just meant that I try to steer away from that kind of speculation. I am aware however that they do occur...I still don't understand why they don't exhume JFK's body and try a forensic autopsy with the technology we have today...or maybe I do. By the way, funny thing about movies....their not real! :lol:

Sometimes unions are good. Sometimes there bad. Sometimes non union jobs are bad and sometimes they are very good.

Twila, I think you made my point for me...objectivity, thank you! I am glad you have a great job with flexibility and I am sorry that your fiance has to put up with that kind of crap.

 

[FormerCanuck]

As leaders of their respective countries, it has a lot to do with it. They both represent business elites, they are both corporatists. They are the living embodiment of the system.

That is true except when we are speaking hypothetically or about a philosophy in general, there is no timeline and thus individuals are somewhat irrelevant to my discussion.

That is not, as you purport, the union mentality. I doubt you have much experience with unions or the people who work in union jobs. What you are describing is the expression of the statement, "They pretend to pay me, and I pretend to work." That isn't a "union" mentality, it is the mentality of somebody who has been treated badly by their employer.

I have a great deal of experience with union people; that experience grows daily and has been compounded over the course of several years, in three different companies, and in three different States. I don't know what else I have to do before I can call myself "experienced" in these matters. I know, I know, I'm just a schmuck in here but nonetheless, you are speculating about my work experience; something no one in here could possibliy know anything about. I guess I could add that you are speculating about how unions operate in the US. You don't work here, you probably never have, and judging from your stance on the issues, you would probably never want to either (maybe that's speculation on my part). My point is that unions are abused here, by the members themselves and especially the union bosses in the US...maybe not all of them but it is certainly an issue with many companies who, by the way, also treat their non-union employees well. Sometimes, companies are held prisoner by their own union workforce. I am not speculating about that...I've been there, done that.

Ah, yes...try to label something a conspiracy to imply that that the person speaking about it is a looney tune. A couple of things...
Conspiracies do happen, that's why there are criminal charges that begin, "Conspiracy to commit..."
The tact of trying to write things off as "just a conspiracy theory" to denigrate somebody became popular after the movie of the same name. Funny thing about that movie, the guy with the theories turned out to be right.

The first part is almost a riddle to me, or maybe its just past my bed time. I wouldn't dream of belittling someone's opinion in here since that would also make me a hypocrit. I haven't even thought of making someone out to be a "looney toon" by slapping a meaningless, generic conspiracy label on something. I just meant that I try to steer away from that kind of speculation. I am aware however that they do occur...I still don't understand why they don't exhume JFK's body and try a forensic autopsy with the technology we have today...or maybe I do. By the way, funny thing about movies....their not real! :lol:

Sometimes unions are good. Sometimes there bad. Sometimes non union jobs are bad and sometimes they are very good.

Twila, I think you made my point for me...objectivity, thank you! I am glad you have a great job with flexibility and I am sorry that your fiance has to put up with that kind of crap.

By the way...I will be out of town for most of the week..I'm sorry to disappoint all of you but I hope to engage in more inspired debate when I return...best to all.

FC

 

[Reverend Blair]

That is true except when we are speaking hypothetically or about a philosophy in general, there is no timeline and thus individuals are somewhat irrelevant to my discussion.

Even hypothetical discussions have real life examples, FC. George Bush is fantastic example of many things...the importance of the separation of church and state, the failure of the neo-conservative/neo-liberal philosophy, the dangers of corporatism, the brutality of colonialism.

He may not be your ideal politician, but you do espouse similar doctrine to his.

I have a great deal of experience with union people; that experience grows daily and has been compounded over the course of several years, in three different companies, and in three different States.

You very much give the outside in perspective though. You haven't sat in union halls, you haven't been there when the corporate bosses have said, "You'll take your coffee breaks when we say or you will forfeit your coffee breaks."

I know, I know, I'm just a schmuck in here but nonetheless, you are speculating about my work experience; something no one in here could possibliy know anything about.

Is my speculation that far off? Let me flesh things out for you...You grew up in Alberta. Your family likely had relatively strong ties to a conservative church, likely not Catholic. You likely worked on farms or in the oil patch for summer jobs, maybe light construction. You've never held a union job and neither have the majority of your friends. If you own a home, you have a lawn service to cut your grass and possibly use a maid service. If you live in an apartment, just the maid service. You give to charity, but won't toss a looney to a street kid because they might buy drugs. You've never been to a protest and have never looked in to what protestors are protesting against beyond sound-bites on corporate-owned media. I'm not going for exactness (exactitude should be a word, but they won't put it in the dictionary), just the general feeling of your life.

How am I doing so far?

I guess I could add that you are speculating about how unions operate in the US. You don't work here, you probably never have, and judging from your stance on the issues, you would probably never want to either (maybe that's speculation on my part).

You'd be wrong about me speculating about how unions work in the US. I don't work there and certainly won't while George Bush is in office (I made one of his official enemies lists...the downside of computers is that honours that used to be preserved for people at least as famous as Farley Mowatt now get foisted on those of us who aren't famous at all).

I do talk to people in the United States though, and I'm a voracious reader...especially since I gave up sleeping. I've heard extensively from both sides and all points in between and the reality is that unions are needed in your country more now than ever before.

Would I ever work in the USA? After Georgie is gone? Well I'd like to do several stories about the USA. If I could convice an editor to pay for plane tickets and bar tabs I'd be there in a shot. I also want to go meet the guy who wrote, "Keep Your Jesus Off My Penis, I'll Keep My Penis Off of You," but that's not really work. Unless I can convince an editor to buy my plane tickets, of course. ;-)


You can speculate away about me all you'd like, BTW. I'll correct you as we go. You can return the favour.

The first part is almost a riddle to me, or maybe its just past my bed time. I wouldn't dream of belittling someone's opinion in here since that would also make me a hypocrit.

Those are the implications of using the phrase "conspiracy theory." Anyone who has been involved in political discussions since the movie came out should be at least peripherally aware of them.

By the way...I will be out of town for most of the week..I'm sorry to disappoint all of you but I hope to engage in more inspired debate when I return...best to all.

Have a good trip and remember to tip well even if the service sucks.

 

[zenfisher]

As for zenfisher, I am sorry but I just don't buy what you're selling. I have not lived in Washington State but I have lived in five different States (all in different regions of the country) and I have not encountered this.

I'll make it easy... show me just one Canadian who has lost there home because they can't afford their hospital bill.

I work with a very frail lady down here who has the bill collectors calling her all the time. Why because she owes $11,000 in medical bills. You want to know something else ...she is with our empoyer's health care provider. I don't have to go far at all to prove what I'm saying is true.

I ain't selling anything...I'm just telling it like it is here. I've priced the providers here as I work for an employer who provides limited healthcare options. Medicare is a great help here....but you still pay a percentage based on income.

 

[FormerCanuck]

I had a free moment here while travelling and thought I'd leave a quick post. so here it goes...

Is my speculation that far off? Let me flesh things out for you...You grew up in Alberta. Your family likely had relatively strong ties to a conservative church, likely not Catholic. You likely worked on farms or in the oil patch for summer jobs, maybe light construction. You've never held a union job and neither have the majority of your friends. If you own a home, you have a lawn service to cut your grass and possibly use a maid service. If you live in an apartment, just the maid service. You give to charity, but won't toss a looney to a street kid because they might buy drugs. You've never been to a protest and have never looked in to what protestors are protesting against beyond sound-bites on corporate-owned media. I'm not going for exactness (exactitude should be a word, but they won't put it in the dictionary), just the general feeling of your life.
How am I doing so far?

I'd like to tell you that you're close but...sadly, I can't. Let me see, here; I do consider myself an Albertan although I was born out east. We moved to Alberta when I was still quite young, fortunately for us. My family did have moderate ties to the church, but it was indeed the Catholic church. An uncle of mine, who was very close to me was a Catholic Priest and I attended Catholic schools my whole life. I've never worked on a farm, although I think it could have taught me something about work ethic a little sooner in life. I've never worked in the oil patch and in fact, have never been north of Fort Chipewan near the AB/NWT border. I grew up in the biggest city in Alberta and have always considered myself an urbanite. I've never worked construction but I was part of a union when was working my way through university. I do own a home, but I am actually in the process of renting an aerator to punch holes in my lawn...something I know nothing about, but I'll let you know how it goes. I personally don't have maid service...I don't like the thought of some stranger lingering around my home while I'm not there. Besides, cleaning the house my way keeps me off the couch and inspires me to read in my free time instead of putting the brain on cruise control while watching TV. By the way, I do despise Bill O'reilly and his "No Spin Zone"...he is the best definition of a right wing nut-job if I've ever seen one. Incidentally I was pulling for John McCain in 2000 but alas, no nomination. I try to go to the gym throughout the work week mainly because I have this fear of getting older, losing my health, and getting fat. I suppose I'd like to break the status quo. I cut the lawn in shorts and probably look like a fucking idiot at the same time but it somehow seems like the thing to do when you're married, have a kid, and pay a mortgage. The good news is that I don't spend any time talking to my neighbours about the weather or having bratwurst cookouts with them on the Fourth of July....I do however set off fireworks in my driveway. I try to do it with the loudest ones I can find because it pisses them off and its my God given right as an American to do it, right? It hasn't seemed to change my beer drinking habits though. I don't give to charity anywhere near as often as I should (other than Goodwill) and would like to fix that. Up until recently, I always gave a looney (while in Canada) and change to folks on the street whenever I could. I stopped doing it lately for various reasons...but not because I don't want to help them out...I didn't throw it at them either; I'm not Ralph Klein (although no one can say he doesn't have character...or a drinking problem...its the intergity part he's missing). I have been to protests but have not participated. One thing I will say about the issues however, is that I trust no single source and so listening to media sound bites doesn't do it for me. I try to get all sides of the story (if possible) and make my own decisions from there (I guess that's what we're doing here).

Thanks for showing interest in my lifestyle...sorry I didn't meet those expectations though. I think people who know me understand that I do everything in moderation (unlike the alcoholic abuse I inflicted on myself in university)...that way I can't get into too much trouble.

Thanks again and I'll check back if I can...travelling makes things somewhat unpredictable.

 

[peapod]

Former Canuck perhaps you should consider doing some vounteer work. Money does not really cut it. Don't take this has a personal attack either, but I am always amazed when someone tells you they give to charity, that defeats the real purpose, and only serves ones ego.

 

[FormerCanuck]

Former Canuck perhaps you should consider doing some vounteer work. Money does not really cut it. Don't take this has a personal attack either, but I am always amazed when someone tells you they give to charity, that defeats the real purpose, and only serves ones ego.

Peapod, I understand your point here but I have little time for anything outside my job, taking care of my son, and perhaps the time I spend trying to keep reasonably healthy at the gym. I know that last part sounds somewhat selfish but the bottom line is that not exercising is simply not an option. In any case, sometimes I think money is enough if that's all you can do. I do believe that volunteering has great benefits but I just don't have the resources to do so. [/quote]

 

[I think not]

Former Canuck.

This says it all........ it's asinine to be listening or discussing anyting with a traitor.

Are all immigrants in Canada also considered traitors because they immigrated there?

 

[mrmom2]

gerrhy sure thinks so but he has not been around lately but no I'm pretty sure not to many other people in this forum feel the same way :wink:

 

[ElPolaco]

Some of my best friends are americans. There are a lot of good folks there. I have to speak now like I don't live there. I recently took two quizes. The results of one showed I was "70% Canadian" and the other showed that I was an "american hater". I'm a Polish-american married to a Mexican-american. A difference between Canada and the US is that, in the last few years, in the united states they are discouraging the "hyphens" while in Canada, they encourage them.

 

[no1important]

RE: Americans against Can

. A difference between Canada and the US is that, in the last few years, in the united states they are discouraging the "hyphens" while in Canada, they encourage them.

You are so right. I am sick of the "hyphenated" Canadian. We are all Canadians no matter where we came from.

I don't say I am 3/4 Manitobian (my two grandmothers and one grandfather were born in Winnipeg) or 1/4 polish since my other grandpa was porn there. I say I am Canadian. The hyphenated Canadian just causes division in my opinion.


edited to say I am still learning how to spell.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: RE: Americans against Can

or 1/4 polish since my other grandpa was porn there.

I'm just guessing, but would this be a typo? 8O

edited to say I am still learning how to spell.

Ah...never mind... :lol: :lol:

 

[no1important]

Re: RE: Americans against Can

or 1/4 polish since my other grandpa was porn there.

I'm just guessing, but would this be a typo? 8O

edited to say I am still learning how to spell.

Ah...never mind... :lol: :lol:

yup a typo I meant to say born there in Poland. ha ha I am losing it in my old age and I am only 37 ha ha

 

[ElPolaco]

Re: RE: Americans against Can

. A difference between Canada and the US is that, in the last few years, in the united states they are discouraging the "hyphens" while in Canada, they encourage them.

You are so right. I am sick of the "hyphenated" Canadian. We are all Canadians no matter where we came from.

I don't say I am 3/4 Manitobian (my two grandmothers and one grandfather were born in Winnipeg) or 1/4 polish since my other grandpa was porn there. I say I am Canadian. The hyphenated Canadian just causes division in my opinion.


edited to say I am still learning how to spell.

But I like the hyphens.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Americans against Can

I like the hyphens too, El Polaco. More than that, I like the food that goes with them.

Most mid-sized Canadian cities have multi-cultural celebrations now. All the groups set up halls and there is much singing, dancing, and eating. A fair amount of drinking too.

The different groups tend to set up permanent clubs too. When I was a kid we all joined the Hungarian Club in Regina so we could drink on Sundays. None of us was actually Hungarian, but they didn't care and neither did we.

 

[Canucklehead]

Using hyphens to denote cultural background is fine so long as it's applicable. Landed immigrants are hyphenated Canadians but anyone born in Canada is, by default, a non-hyphenated Canadian. (which is different from "100% Canadian"; that slogan is appropriately and widely used by aboriginals)
It makes sense to use the hyphens when one's lineage is the topic of discussion or when there is a cultural event going on but as far as daily life and self-identification are concerned it's a bit of a non-issue, or at least it should be for those who are Canadian born.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Americans against Can

The way we live our lives is affected by our cultures and out ethnic backgrounds though, Canucklehead.

 

[Canucklehead]

RE: Americans against Can

I agree completely and take no issue with people wishing to preserve their cultural heritage. I love attending the various cultural events as a way to understand the people, not just the politics of xxx country. All I am saying is that anyone born here is a Canadian and as a result should be for Canada first. To me that means that cultural background as a primary identifier is irrelevent. Where someone is from matters little, that they are a decent human being is what counts.
This is a complex issue to discuss, and honestly, I am somewhat contradictory on it as well, perhaps this will help you understand where I am coming from...

Canada is for inclusiveness, acceptance and tolerance above all else. I believe wholly in this and adhere to it in my daily life and it's reflected by my morals and ethics. I do, however, believe that a Canadian as I've defined above, should hold Canada up as a symbol of the inclusiveness etc. and to hang on to cultural background goes against this since it autmotically categorises people instead of viewing the mish-mash of cultures we call Canada as a whole.