Alcohol "most harmful drug"

talloola

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Nov 14, 2006
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I was not talking about drugs which are used for 'actual' illnesses, I thought this thread was
referring to 'drug drugs', used on the street etc., for reasons of getting high etc., of course
there are thousands of drugs which help sick people, isn't that a different subject completely,
it is confusing if they are all lumped in together don't you think?

Aren't we just discussing those who use alchohol and drugs on their own, not prescribed by a
doctor?
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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I was not talking about drugs which are used for 'actual' illnesses, I thought this thread was
referring to 'drug drugs', used on the street etc.,

Drugs ARE Drugs, regardless if they're legal or illegal.... regardless if they're prescribed or bought off the street or from your friend. Many legal drugs that are prescribed have far more side effects and can do far more damage then some of the illegal ones..... many prescribed drugs can cause serious addiction, like Oxycontin or Dilaudids.... and can be abused just as bad, if not, worse then some of the illegal ones out there.

People tend to try and keep illegal drugs and legal drugs separate as if there is any real difference besides what legal definitions are tied to each, but every drug, from Asprin to Meth, all have side effects, goods and bads..... some are natural and other's are man made.

LSD used to be a legal drug used by medical professionals.

Ecstasy used to be a legal drug used by medical professionals as well.

There's only a very thin line separating what's legal and what's illegal and that line is created by some questionable people with some questionable motives.

for reasons of getting high etc., of course
I understand, but there are a number of prescription/legal drugs out there that many get off the street or simply get from their doctor just to get high or because over a period of time, they grew dependent/addicted to the prescription..... like the ones I just mentioned, Oxycontin and Dilaudids.

Many who get it on the street without a prescription get them from people who do have a prescription but either no longer use them and are just getting some extra money from what's left from their prescription.... or they get them from people who either have lax doctors who will write out anything they want, or just exaggerated their illness in order to get a larger prescription.

OxyContin addiction becomes a problem in Canada

"..... About six years ago, a long acting dosage form of oxycodone containing between 10 mg and 80 mg per tablet was approved by Health Canada and marketed under the brand name OxyContin. This drug was formulated to be time-released but it was soon discovered that, if the tablet was crushed or chewed and either inhaled or injected, it would produce a heroin-like effect.

Consequently, OxyContin is also referred to as "Hillbilly Heroin". The term was coined because Oxycontin abuse is rampant throughout mainly poor and rural regions of the US.

But it has also become a huge problem in Canada, particularly in the Atlantic provinces. In 2003, pharmacists dispensed 2.8 million prescriptions for oxycodone drugs in Canada, most of them in Ontario, and the most popular brand was OxyContin. According to CTV.ca, in 2003 more than 100 people died with oxycodone in their systems in Ontario alone -- 10 times more than a decade ago......."


there are thousands of drugs which help sick people, isn't that a different subject completely,
it is confusing if they are all lumped in together don't you think?
that depends on your perspective I suppose.

Aren't we just discussing those who use alchohol and drugs on their own, not prescribed by a
doctor?
^ Regardless if it's prescribed by a doctor, bought in a store and controlled by regulation, or bought on the street or from a friend and is illegal..... depending on how one uses the drug in question or abuses the drug in question, the end results can end up being the same regardless of its legal status.

Now I'm not saying all drugs will cause serious problems, or kill you, or you'll become addicted to a drug..... what I'm saying is that just because the government and/or laws cite something as being legal or illegal, does not automatically mean something is safe or dangerous.

Technically, you're not supposed to down an entire econo-sized bottle of Flintstones Chewables either..... I know that first hand when my parents rushed me to the hospital when I was little after I downed a whole bottle of what I thought was candy..... they tried to make me vomit it back up, but that didn't work so after a few hours they sent us home.

Halfway home I puked in the car.

Though on the plus side, I'm the tallest person in my family, so I guess their slogan is true in regards to growing.
 
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talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
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anyway, that takes this thread too far for me, trying to cover far too much, thus it loses the
original point I was trying to make with my reply, so I'm done here, nothing more to add.
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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I don't think any drugs are "good"- some are very necessary (in many cases to repair or mitigate damage done by our selves and sometimes for things beyond our control). At least with prescribed drugs a decision has been made by an expert in the field and carried out by another expert in the field, which I think is preferable to getting drugs off a person on the street with no qualifications to prescribe and with only one end in mind- money in HIS pocket.
 

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
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I don't think any drugs are "good"- some are very necessary (in many cases to repair or mitigate damage done by our selves and sometimes for things beyond our control). At least with prescribed drugs a decision has been made by an expert in the field and carried out by another expert in the field, which I think is preferable to getting drugs off a person on the street with no qualifications to prescribe and with only one end in mind- money in HIS pocket.

JLM, you are surprisingly bright this morning.

If not for prescribed drugs, I would be in constant, excruciable pain. Those who have never been there, don't and never could understand.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
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I don't think any drugs are "good"- some are very necessary (in many cases to repair or mitigate damage done by our selves and sometimes for things beyond our control). At least with prescribed drugs a decision has been made by an expert in the field and carried out by another expert in the field, which I think is preferable to getting drugs off a person on the street with no qualifications to prescribe and with only one end in mind- money in HIS pocket.

Being an expert doesn't necessarily make one honest or ethical, sadly. Some doctors seem all too happy to prescribe narcotics for questionable reasons.

JLM, you are surprisingly bright this morning.

If not for prescribed drugs, I would be in constant, excruciable pain. Those who have never been there, don't and never could understand.

I don't think anyone would question your need for the drugs you take, Jack. Generally, people of your age have wear and tear on their bodies which require such medication.
 

YukonJack

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Being an expert doesn't necessarily make one honest or ethical, sadly. Some doctors seem all too happy to prescribe narcotics for questionable reasons.

I am happy to say, that I have never had the misfortune of meeting a doctor who was dishonest or unethical.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
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I am happy to say, that I have never had the misfortune of meeting a doctor who was dishonest or unethical.

I'm just going by what I read in the news, which is by no means a condemnation of doctors in general.

Patients are just as bad though, you keep hearing about "doctor shopping", jumping from doc to doc, filling multiple prescriptions of the same drug. Supposedly the electronic medical records are supposed to fix this problem, if the system ever sees the light of day.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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I am happy to say, that I have never had the misfortune of meeting a doctor who was dishonest or unethical.
That would be my former GP - owned the pharmacy in his clinic and just couldn't accept pain without painkiller. In rehab - to get off the Percs I ate in futile battle - I learned pain management (Essentially, head games with myself) Funny how they come to naught when countered by questions like: "Where does it hurt? ... What time is the pain at its worst? ... What are you doing when you feel pain? ... On a scale of one to ten...."
 

YukonJack

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lone wolf, sorry to hear about your bad experience. I consider myself lucky never having to go thru that kind of mistreatment.

And, if I may add, my problems with pain ended, when I moved to Manitoba from Ontario. I had an MRI in two weeks. I got to see a rheumatologist just as fast. And that rheumatologist prescribed a drug that has been known to be detrimental to the liver, so, he referred me to a hepatologist.

Happily it all worked out OK. I am ABOUT as pain-free as i dare to be at my age.

And to those who have called me a racist on these forums, before, the stars of my story, above, are ethnic Chinese and Indian, who earned my eternal gratitude.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
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OK, now you've made me mad, that was a low blow, i'm ready to fight.!!!!!lol
Go get em

 

YukonJack

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Dec 26, 2008
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DurkaDurka, if we keep this up, we will end up remembering that most famous chase scene from Seinfeld, where George tried to get away in his scooter fom an angry bunch of old-timers.
 

mayety

Nominee Member
Jul 18, 2010
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What about a fruit wine cooler? 7% alc/vol. I know it's made out of the dregs of....? What?

I buy one a week (makes me think I am celebrating something) because I live alone and am still healing from when a car ran into me 19 months go?

Apple Juice just doesn't do the celebration....of what ? Maybe the claim settlement yet to come?
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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In fact we are because what really matters, regardless of the product in question, is the mentality and perception people have of said product, regardless of evidence or studies, which allows one thing to be legal, while something of equal risk or possible damage to "Society" as the legal product is left illegal.

I didn't say you couldn't categorize all drugs in terms of their harm to society, but considering the original post for this topic already did that, it's irrelevant if you do or not.

The problem isn't categorizing them all based on their harm to society..... it's your responses and comments that "Generalize" all drugs as being equally damaging and destructive to society and that's why they're illegal, when in reality, you're just picking and choosing what you want to hear and/or believe and portray a very narrow perspective on the topic and the substances we intake.



I didn't try and turn this debate into a debate about marijuana..... I used marijuana as an example to show you that your generalized view of "All" drugs, including alcohol and including marijuana is inaccurate, biased and slightly ignorant.

I could have use Shrooms or LSD as the example, it doesn't matter to me.



I don't care what noble sentiments you think are in what I say.... kids shouldn't be smoking marijuana, nor should they be smoking tobacco, or drinking alcohol, or drinking coffee...... they all have certain adverse affects on kids, which is why there's age restrictions for most of the things that are regulated and legal..... for adults.

In regards to your other link, while I can access your first link, I unfortunately can not view the second one where I am due to some of the web tags being filtered out at work and notifying me the site has to do with narcotics and drug use..... for the record I can't view YouTube here either.... meanwhile some pages about drugs work, while others don't.... that second link doesn't work, therefore I can not actually read, let alone debate any content on that particular page.

However, since a few others in here (Unforgiven) Can view the page and noted to you about the level of bias and skewed perspective on the site you provided, it looks like I don't have to.

Though if you really want me to, when I get home for the weekend, I'll check out your page and then tear the living crap out of it in very fine and long winded detail.


Be careful about reading into my post things I did not say. You seem very good at doing that. I stated that drugs causing the greatest problems are those most freely available whether they are legal or not. It is a fact that making any drug more widely available generally makes the drug more widely abused. You have not been able to refute that.

You can be as long winded as you like. If you provide the same amount of scientific evidence you have provided so far it won't matter if you write an encyclopedia.

As for your reference to teens you apparently do not seem to understand that making any drug more freely available makes it more available to those who are not of age. It doesn't matter if it is legal or not.

In any case I am tired of this repetitive debate. You really have not changed anything from your original post, nor have you presented any evidence to refute my main points. Simple contradiction is not debate even if Monty Python claimed that it was. If you come up with something that actually advances the debate I will respond otherwise consider this my last post on the topic.

I did and you some how managed to excuse yourself from responding to that. What you offer up as evidence is nothing more than that of a monster hunter drawing up a conclusion from a few coincidences or a bible thumper holding up a bible and telling me no more questions are needed.

The facts we have don't lie and so far refute all that you have posted about drugs here.


I'm sorry that you have a problem with scientific evidence. Why don't you pull up a few studies that refute my resources? If you can't do that then your objection is worthless.

I'm surprised to see this comment coming from you- What about Jimmy Hendrix, Janice Joplin, John Beluchi, Jim Morrison and scads of other young entertainers? Kurt Coburn?

That is only a few people. Compare deaths from all drugs combined and they don't come close to deaths from tobacco. I am sure you are aware of the statistics on that, but just in case you are not try this link. Annual Causes of Death in the United States | Drug War Facts

Please note that in the year for which the stats were compiled illicit drugs accounted for only 17,000 deaths out of about a million drug-related deaths.