Al Gore’s) Venture capital firm set to reap rewards on swine flu

[SirJosephPorter]

Ron, if you say public debate will help you decide on the issue, I will take your word for it. However, past experience has shown that such debates rarely change enough minds to give one side a decisive advantage.

Usually what happens is that people listen to the debate with preconceived views. They think that the side they supported won the debate. Indeed, in the presidential election, the debates rarely make any difference. Thus, Gore won all three debates against Bush, yet lost to him Kerry won all three debates against Bush, yet lost to Bush.

Obama won all three debates and won the election. However, there was very little movement in opinion polls as a result of the debates. Obama would very likely have won without the debates. So experience has shown that debates settle very little.

Indeed, I don’t know if you remember the 1988 vice presidential debate between Dan Quayle and Howard Bentsen. Bentsen positively demolished Quayle (remember the zinger’ Senator, you are no Jack’)?. It was almost unanimous that Bentsen won the debate. Yet there was no movement in polls towards Dukakis.

So chances are very high that debate won’t settle anything. Mind you, I am not saying that Gore should not debate, that is up to him. What I am saying is that I understand if Gore decides not to debate. In practice debates rarely settle anything.

 

[Ron in Regina]

In 1988, I was twenty and couldn't care less about American Politics.
I'm not twenty now. Carbon Credit Trading sounds like it's in the wind
and Public policy will be based on it....without a two sided story. If only
one side gets publicity (& the bulk of the funding), and yet I can still find
that several hundred Scientists disagree with AGW....I see a problem.

Usually, if in doubt, you can just follow the money. In this case, there is
so much (and not just money) at stake on both sides of the argument
that just following the money doesn't work. I understand where Al Gore
is coming from with his Carbon Trading Company & Non-Debate speaking
engagements and Movie sales....and I see where the Oil Companies and
Coal Companies and such are coming from...as both sides have a lot of
money riding on the issue. That "follow the Money" thing doesn't work here.

Where are (& yeah, Grants, etc...) the scientists coming from, as there sure
isn't a consensus. Tonington gave me several Links a while back, as did
Scottfree....and I can tell you that I want to see a public debate that includes
all interested parties. A Very Public Debate.

Ironicly, it seems that only one side of the issue wants a debate. Doesn't
that seem strange if several hundred Scientists disagree with AGW???

 

[darkbeaver]

A debate would settle just how full of **** Al Gore is. Maurice Strong knows.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

In 1988, I was twenty and couldn't care less about American Politics.

Ron, just shows how old I am. In 1988 I was 38, well past the prime of my youth. So it didn’t even occur to me that somebody may be too young to follow politics.

 

[Ron in Regina]

In 1988, I was twenty and couldn't care less about American Politics.

Ron, just shows how old I am. In 1988 I was 38, well past the prime of my youth. So it didn’t even occur to me that somebody may be too young to follow politics.

I was then...but not now. :lol::lol::lol:
_______________________

 

[darkbeaver]

What if, without a real Public debate, we find out in hindsight that
the whole Carbon Trading thing is a complete and utter sham, but
only after it costs 100's of billions of dollars? That's spooky...

Ron, and how is public debate going to settle that? Public debate can settle matters of public policy (and many times not even that). Whether Carbon Trading is a sham or not is for scientists to decide. They have to tell us whether it will do anything to reduce greenhouse gases.

In a public debate, the two sides will simply present their case, and that would be that. Public place is not the proper forum to decide on matters of science (like Creationists want to teach Book of Genesis along with evolution, to them it is a matter of public policy, not one of science).

Science does not trump politics or business in the real world, scientists are responsible for much of the worlds misery. We should be on guard not to get science and scientists mixed up, it's a popular mix to deliver rubbish, just like the old laundry detergent commercials staffed by a team of eggheads with clipboards babbleing about the new breakthrough formula for thier crap. The whole global warming scam stinks of bankers and thieves. As far as I'm concerned the con stories value is to mask the real cause of global warming and the fact that there isn't a bloody thing we can do about it. There have been some really bad people wear a labcoat I mean what kind of human works on nerve gas or ICBMs or bio-weapons, guess what there is a lineup for jobs designing killing machines and poison potions so don't give me any horse**** about the ethics of science today, it hasn't got any, the pricks who design the rotten drugs are all scientists. We could see scientists as responsible for many recent war crimes.

 

[captain morgan]

This is what the UK Justice Department website says:

The UK Supreme Court will open in early October 2009.

United Kingdom Supreme Court - Ministry of Justice

So you jumped the gun just a little.

You might want to amble on over to the calendar on your wall and check today's date.

 

[Stretch]

But Al Gore is certifiable, he is psychotic.. delusional.. a complete nut case.. . I'd call him greatest liar of his age, but I think he far too confused to know the difference between truth and fiction. Not the type of person you want in charge of the world's most powerful economic and nuclear superpower.

The fact he receives these awards from the post structural pagans who control much of the West's supranational organizations, just shows how messed up things are.. and where we are headed.

Coldstream, let us see now. Al Gore is certifiable, psychotic, delusional, nut case. So by implications, anybody who was involved in giving all these awards (Nobel Prize and other awards) are also certifiable, psychotic, delusional, nut case

And you are the one who is supposed to decide all that. You are the one who apparently has the authority to pronounce all these scientists, statesmen, politicians, prominent people in the society, apparently you have the authority to declare all of them psychotic, delusional etc.

Does that tell you anything about yourself?

Just the corrupt rewarding the corrupt.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

This is what the UK Justice Department website says:

The UK Supreme Court will open in early October 2009.

United Kingdom Supreme Court - Ministry of Justice

So you jumped the gun just a little.

You might want to amble on over to the calendar on your wall and check today's date.

April 29, 2009. So what is your point, Captain? I said you jumped the gun just a little and I am right.

 

[Stretch]

Swine flu: 'Scaremongering' public health adverts from 1976 outbreak
By: malterwitty
Tags: CURRENT EVENTS
The 1976 vaccination campaign is now considered to have been an overreaction based on mistaken fears that the swine flu outbreak would pose the same risk as the Spanish flu pandemic that followed the First World War, claiming the lives of up to 50 million people.
Many of the 40 millions Americans who signed up for vaccinations questioned the advice of the country's health experts after the predicted pandemic failed to materialise.

Swine flu: 'Scaremongering' public health adverts from 1976 outbreak - Telegraph

 

[captain morgan]

You might want to amble on over to the calendar on your wall and check today's date.

Apparently I am the one that needs to check my calender... Opps

 

[coldstream]

Coldstream, let us see now. Al Gore is certifiable, psychotic, delusional, nut case. So by implications, anybody who was involved in giving all these awards (Nobel Prize and other awards) are also certifiable, psychotic, delusional, nut case

And you are the one who is supposed to decide all that. You are the one who apparently has the authority to pronounce all these scientists, statesmen, politicians, prominent people in the society, apparently you have the authority to declare all of them psychotic, delusional etc.

Does that tell you anything about yourself?

I'm certainly not alone in pointing to the glaring scientific inconsistencies in GW theory, and the devastating potential of capitulating to this fraud for the world economy, or the potential for Al Gore and his ilk to profit from fear mongering and hording of 'Carbon Credits' .. and Flu Vaccine.. and likely a lot of other commodities whose price can be manipulated through scarcity and fear.

The GW fabric of lies those has been thoroughly infiltrated into media, academic and public policy institutions, supra-national organizations (UN, World Bank, IMF, WTO...), Nobel committees and more to the point that something without scientific validity is accepted as truth, supported by any transient anecdotal evidence, to the exclusion of anything that contradicts it.

The sheer amorality of Gore's position, the inability to discern right from wrong, by fomenting hysteria, having placed himself as a major beneficiary of calamitous public policy, would fit the legal definition of insanity.

The susceptibility of 'establishments' to hysteria is well known in history. And their ability to exclude opposing opinion is also well known, since it is they who control research grants, tenure, appointments in educational and public institutions.

They give prizes and honours to those who support them, and hound those who oppose them out of any position of influence.They designate the Truth, through control of the media and public opinion. In is this case it is one that is being promoted by a lunatic cabal, of people of unmatched ambition, greed and vanity... who are represented in all political parties... and their dupes, who have been bullied into cashing in their due diligence and good sense.

By cornering the market for carbon, through credits and reduction, they have put themselves in control of the most essential energy, food, transportation facilitating commodity in the world. They intend to squeeze it, to catastrophic effect for the human population, especially in the developing world, out of power lust and greed.

I watched a rerun of the movie Goldfinger the other day, which gave an accurate portrayal of an individual that to all outward appearances is rational, sympathetic, gracious.. but in reality is quite mad, and utterly ruthless to the core. That is what you have with Al Gore. You have an archvillain here worthy of a James Bond characature, completely self deluded.

He is a front man to a very malicious clique, which is using GW as a hinge to control the World Economy for their own benefit.. a veritable SPECTRE to the world's prosperity and peace

 

[SirJosephPorter]

The GW fabric of lies those has been thoroughly infiltrated into media, academic and public policy institutions, supra-national organizations (UN, World Bank, IMF, WTO...), Nobel committees and more to the point that something without scientific validity is accepted as truth, supported by any transient anecdotal evidence, to the exclusion of anything that contradicts it.

He is a front man to a very malicious clique, which is using GW as a hinge to control the World Economy for their own benefit.. a veritable SPECTRE to the world's prosperity and peace

Coldstream, in popular jargon, that is known as ‘conspiracy theory’. It is as if you feel that everybody is out to get you.

 

[Francis2004]

The GW fabric of lies those has been thoroughly infiltrated into media, academic and public policy institutions, supra-national organizations (UN, World Bank, IMF, WTO...), Nobel committees and more to the point that something without scientific validity is accepted as truth, supported by any transient anecdotal evidence, to the exclusion of anything that contradicts it.

He is a front man to a very malicious clique, which is using GW as a hinge to control the World Economy for their own benefit.. a veritable SPECTRE to the world's prosperity and peace

Coldstream, in popular jargon, that is known as ‘conspiracy theory’. It is as if you feel that everybody is out to get you.

SJP I was about to reply but thought I would include your comments to add to them instead if you do not mind..

The fact of the matter is many people on the opposite side are indeed reaping as much money from this as those they claim will from Carbon Credit by raping the planet by telling those who are willing to listen that this is all a lie and buy now before all those nasty people ban all your products and costs you so much more.

But reality is they are doing exactly what the others who they claim will really scam the "Carbon Credit" market will because they will indeed be the same. Once a scammer, always a scammer, and so they will move on to the next "commodity" and start doing exactly what they said they would never do.. That is what con sales people do best..

Where there is a market, is found a sales person.. Where there is a suc_er is found a buyer..

In all markets it is buyer beware.. There is no exception..

 

[Ron in Regina]

Usually, if in doubt, you can just follow the money. In this case, there is
so much (and not just money) at stake on both sides of the argument
that just following the money doesn't work. I understand where Al Gore
is coming from with his Carbon Trading Company & Non-Debate speaking
engagements and Movie sales....and I see where the Oil Companies and
Coal Companies and such are coming from...as both sides have a lot of
money riding on the issue. That "follow the Money" thing doesn't work here.

Where are (& yeah, Grants, etc...) the scientists coming from, as there sure
isn't a consensus. Tonington gave me several Links a while back, as did
Scottfree....and I can tell you that I want to see a public debate that includes
all interested parties. A Very Public Debate.

This Thread hasn't convinced me, even just looking at the last 1/2 dozen posts
or so, that a large Public debate on ths subjuct isn't needed or warrented.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

This Thread hasn't convinced me, even just looking at the last 1/2 dozen posts
or so, that a large Public debate on ths subjuct isn't needed or warrented.

Doesn’t surprise me, Ron, these discussions rarely change anybody’s opinion. I am not convinced either, that the debate will serve any useful purpose (though it may enable a few people like you to make up his mind). But it probably won’t do any harm either. More debate is always good.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Doesn’t surprise me, Ron, these discussions rarely change anybody’s opinion. I am not convinced either, that the debate will serve any useful purpose (though it may enable a few people like you to make up his mind). But it probably won’t do any harm either. More debate is always good.

Now Here I Concur with your Assessment of the Situation SirJosephPorter.

 

[coldstream]

The only problem is that the GW Orthodoxy and its 'remedies' on the world holds the potential for devastating consequences to the world economy.. at a time when it can least afford it. I would support an honest debate, but a delusional character like Al Gore, would never accept one, nor would the besotted group who can only see the immense profit that can be garnered from cornering the Carbon Credit trade. Not when they've already framed the 'crisis' in their own terms and in their own interests . The last thing they want to apply is reason and systematic considerations that could pop the bubble of hysteria they have crafted.

You can often determine the legitimacy of an argument by the motives of those who are its most prominent proponents, as well as their tactics. If their motives are greed, and their tactics are fear.. then beware.

I would say there is no problem in promoting a cleaner environment. Great strides have been made in reducing smog in the last few decades. The problem comes when artificial 'market' mechanisms are devised, with artificial 'doomsday' deadlines, which everyone admits will have zero effect on carbon emissions, but will allow a small clique to make immense profit through fear mongering, and manipulation of trade.. which is always done by imposing scarcity and austerity.

They have coopted the environmental movement for their own sinister purposes. It will likely make the world a dirtier place, because poorer places are governed by desperation, not environmental principles. It will starve research into cleaner energy, because that won't be a priority in a Depression. It is no accident that the 'solution' dovetails perfectly into the Global Free Market Paradigm, which is failing catastrophically now. It is in fact part of the Global Investment Organism that exists soley for its own aggrandisement and is completely without scruples as to its effects on humanity.

The fact remains that the evidence now shows the world is likely in a cooling phase that could last decades. You saw the effects in the last winter. The sea ice in the Arctic was the thickest and most expansive its been since the 1970s. None of the warming is happening.. it is a figment of Al Gore and his associates imagination.. or more likely it is a contrived falsehood that will make them even richer than they already are.. and their appetite for money.. and power.. is quite insatiable.

 

[wulfie68]

I still can't believe people support a carbon credit trading system as something that will actually improve things enivronmentally. How does playing around with what amounts to a new accounting system and nothing else, reduce emissions? It doesn't; it just means more bean counters get jobs further inflating the deadweight quotient in our economies. Oh yeah, I've heard the line "but it will funnel money into Green R&D"... except there won't be much left after you pay all those accountants...

I'm on the fence about the actual danger and causes of "global warming": intuitively my mind says more emissions = bad but the models the IPCC and other scientists try and promote don't show a correlation, regardless of their excuses, so it tells me something is missing... which leads me to ask how much is missing/mistaken? Saying "oh but their scientists so it has to be true" seems as stupid to me as people who said "oh the gov't says there's WMDs in Iraq so there must be". Question and re-evaluate, always.

At the same time I don't see anything but benefit in finding alternative energy sources and reducing our impact on the environment (and please lets get over this ethanol crap: its still a carbon combustion reaction which means its giving off CO2 and water vapour at its best and things like carbon monoxide when its not 100% efficient).

And I wish David Suzuki would STFU and go back to being a geneticist, where he was a brilliant scientist and stop with the politically motivated amateur climatologist schtick for the Scare camp.

 

[DaSleeper]

Of course Al Gore and his croonies do not want a debate with real climatologists.....they can only loose in such a debate.....with nothing to gain.........