Al Gore Receives Nobel Peace Prize

[Extrafire]

[...] Here's a simple demonstration. A water shortage. Rich citizens use much more water than poorer citizens. Is it fair for the rich to demand that poor people commit to reduce their consumption by 20% before they will?[...]

Not really a valid comparison. A better one would be a whole lot of citizens in a ship who dip water out of the ocean and pour it over themselves to cool off. The rich have very large buckets and the poor have very small buckets. The water is starting to fill the boat and it has been predicted that eventually it will sink if this practice continues. The Kyoto suggestion is made - the rich will reduce the size of their buckets by 30%. The poor, however, can keep using all their buckets to maximum, and can even increase the size of them as much as they want. Since there are only 100 rich people and 10,000 poor people in the ship, it is obvious that the problem will continue to accelerate and the ship will sink, so there is absolutely no purpose in the rich people reducing their usage if the poor don't.

It's not a matter of fairness, or justice, or right and wrong. It's a matter of being effective in treating the problem. Because if you excuse the poor from the solution, then you really don't believe there's a problem in the first place.

 

[Extrafire]

Of course he refused to take the pledge. He is a hypocrit and they slapped the Nobel Peace Prize. What a joke. He is the worst man to lead the world on GW (Global Warming). A wealthy liberal who gobbles up as much fossil fuel than anyone, one who claims to be carbon neutral via carbon credits when in fact he is just buying stock in his carbon credit company. One who gives the Hollywood elite a years worth of carbon credits to live their lavish lifestyles free of guilt because they have a piece of paper. A piece of paper that has no backing with carbon credits because they were just issued by his company for the cost of only printing them.

One who's land in Tennessee is rife with pollution because of Zinc Mining. The company that works the mines have been caught dumping toxic waste in rivers and lands and Gore has only asked that they "try to find better ways" to mine Zinc. There is no better way Al. You deforest the land and strip the earth leaving a scar that will never heal. But as long as the $500K royalty checks keep coming in Al is ok with this!

Follow this guy? NEVER.

I agree with your sentiment on this. However, millions of sheeple are looking to him as a saint and savior.

 

[Extrafire]

All nations like China and India and Brazil are looking for, is a solid commitment from more affluent nations. They can barely get their GDP up on their own.

So what's your suggestion? Let's assume for the moment that the science isn't in contention, which I know very well you don't subscribe to.

Hmmmm....seems Bali didn't quite turn out the way the mainstream media is saying.....

Is the world finally coming face to face with reality?

Climate alarmism hits a brick wall
The success of the major Anglosphere nations at last week's United Nations climate conference in Bali marks the beginning of the end of the age of climate hysteria. It also symbolizes a significant shift of political leadership in international climate diplomacy from the once-dominating European continent to North America and its Western allies.
This power shift has perhaps never been more transparent and dramatic than in Bali, when Australia's Labour government, under the newly elected Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, announced a complete U-turn on the thorny issue of mandatory carbon dioxide emissions targets. Only days after Australia's delegation had backed Europe's demand for a 25% to 40% cut in emission by 2020, Mr. Rudd declared (his signature under the Kyoto Protocol wasn't even dry) that his government would not support such targets after all.
Indeed, Australia's position hardened further when Trade Minister Simon Crean announced that developing countries like China and India would have to accept tough binding emissions targets before Australia would ever agree to any post-Kyoto agreement beyond 2012.
Similar stipulations were made by Canada and Japan. Surprisingly, even the British government appeared to deviate from the European Union position when Britain's Trade and Development Minister, Gareth Thomas, told the BBC that developing countries would also be required to accept targets for CO2 emissions.
Rather than being isolated, the decision by the United States and Canada to take the lead in international energy and climate diplomacy appears to have galvanized key allies, who are gradually rallying around a much tougher stance vis-a-vis China and India.
In Bali, the Anglosphere nations have in effect drawn a red line in the sand: Unless developing countries agree to mandatory emissions cuts themselves, much of the Western world will henceforth reject any unilateral burden imposed by future climate deals.
As a consequence, the so-called Bali road map adopted last Saturday has shifted the pressure further on to developing nations to share responsibility for CO2 emissions, a move that is widely regarded as a significant departure from the Kyoto Protocol.
For the first time, there are now firm demands for developing nations to tackle CO2 emissions by taking "actions in a measurable, reportable, and verifiable" way. There can be little doubt that the words adopted in Bali herald increasing pressure on China and India to accept mandatory emissions targets.
Australia's public endorsement of this line of attack attests to the fact that the West's climate strategy no longer depends on party politics. Nobody has made this new reality more obvious in recent days than Democratic U.S. Senator John Kerry. Speaking to reporters at the Bali meeting, he notified the international community that a rejection by China and other emerging economies to cut their own greenhouse gases would make it almost impossible for any U.S. administration to get a new global climate treaty through the U.S. Senate -- "even under a Democratic president."
Yet, neither China nor India will be able to agree to any emissions cuts in the foreseeable future. While their CO2 emissions are expected to rise rapidly over the next 20 to 30 years, there is simply nothing in the world of alternative energy or clean technology existing today that has the capacity to arrest this upwards trend. Any forceful attempts, on the other hand, to rein in the dramatically rising energy consumption in almost all of Asia would, inescapably, trigger economic turmoil, social disorder and political chaos.
In Bali, more than perhaps ever before, climate alarmism has finally hit the solid brick wall of political reality. It's a reality that won't go away or be changed any time soon. After more than 20 years of green ascendancy on the world stage, green politicians and climate campaigners are for the first time faced with a conundrum that looks as impenetrable as squaring the circle.
Reflecting on this predicament and the results of the Bali conference, Germany's former foreign secretary, my old friend Joschka Fischer, declared that nothing short of divine intervention would be required to reach a post-Kyoto agreement by 2009, in face of insurmountable obstacles.
"Perhaps something will happen in the meantime, something that does not normally happen in politics, namely a small miracle. After all, given past experiences, one must fear that international climate policy won't probably advance without the direct intervention of higher powers."
That Europe's most famous and most eminent green politician is prepared and desperate enough to publicly call for heavenly support is a strong indication that the age of climate alarmism is now being gradually replaced by fatalism. That's what the encounter with a brick wall tends to do to hot-heads. One can only hope that a period of sobering up from green dreams and delusions will provide political leaders with the prerequisite for a realistic, pragmatic and most of all a manageable approach to climate change.
http://www.financialpost.com/analysis/story.html?id=175177

 

[gopher]

Do you know what false dichotomy means?

Yup. That 'plains the nitwittedness of those duffelheads who believed Bush's story of WMD in Iraq.;-)

 

[Tonington]

Hmmmm....seems Bali didn't quite turn out the way the mainstream media is saying.....

Depends who you ask. I think it was a failure personally, but I would have been foolish to set my standards too high. Politics is certainly not a godsend, nor is it a rational approach, for the most part.

I guess scientists will need to go from 90% certainty to 95%, and then 99%. Or perhaps we need to wait for the ten year period following the next solar cycle.

Kudos go to Papua New Guinea, for the nice shot at the end of the conference

 

[warrior_won]

I agree with your sentiment on this. However, millions of sheeple are looking to him as a saint and savior.

Now you're just being redundant. If you worked for me, I'd fire your ass. :roll:

 

[gopher]

[SIZE=-1]BEYOND THE IVORY TOWER:[/SIZE]
The Scientific Consensus on Climate Change

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686

``The scientific consensus is clearly expressed in the reports of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). Created in 1988 by the World Meteorological Organization and the United Nations Environmental Programme, IPCC's purpose is to evaluate the state of climate science as a basis for informed policy action, primarily on the basis of peer-reviewed and published scientific literature (3).``



Again, it proves that the majority of the scientific community agrees that there is global warming. The right wingers may not want to agree but they have presented no valid basis for proving that the claim is unfounded or unsupportable.

 

[EagleSmack]

I don't expect poorer nations to suffer while nations like China plunge ahead. I already said that they should have more responsibility. You think we can get them to commit ahead of poorer nations, while we won't do the same? Definition of hypocrisy.

I am sort of busy here but I wanted to answer the last part. The thing about China is that the people who drew up Kyoto did not get them to commit. China would not commit and I can tell you they will not commit to anything that came out of Bali. However Kyoto still wanted the US to commit and it was not good for the nation. People relish in how the US economy is sagging but yet they want the US to take measures that will make it even worse because of GW! That is foolish.

 

[Tonington]

Thanks for taking the time to post. The conference in Bali is over, the real negotiations will take place over the next two years. The reasons for the slumping economy are removed from climate change. I can show you reports if you like, how implementing kyoto style targets, and mechanisms for the achievement of those targets, can produce positive net economic results. That is, legislating efficiency can produce more wealth, more jobs, and clean air.

California isn't a Kyoto signatory nation. But they have introduced smart legislation, granted some was foolish, but much of it has been successful. Now 17 other states have introduced similar legislation, which accounts for approximately 50% of the US. So even while your federal leadership has been inept, the republic of your states has proven strong, which I believe was the intention when the US was borne. Half of America lives in a jurisdiction with Kyoto targets. If they can continue to work together, from state to state, and learn the lessons from California, and other nations across the globe, it won't be nearly as difficult as it's made out to be. At least the first portion of targets. But that's why technology funding continues to be needed. The cuts beyond Kyoto targets, are much more difficult.

 

[Walter]

Gore Files Lawsuits Against Time
by Pat Sajak

Posted: 12/19/2007
Lawyers for former Vice President Al Gore have filed numerous lawsuits against Time magazine, alleging a series of voting irregularities they maintain deprived Gore of Time’s “Person of the Year” Award. It has been announced that Russian President Vladimir Putin received the 2007 award, with Gore finishing second.
Details of the suits are sketchy, but one of them accuses certain unnamed Time employees of denying others the right to vote when it was determined they were leaning toward Gore. Rumors have surfaced that one employee, known only as “Chad”, has confirmed those rumors. Another separate suit claims the voting process to be far too complicated to be understood by, to quote the lawsuit, “a bunch of journalists.” Gore’s lawyers are calling for a recount of the ballots in question. They also demand that independent observers from the United Nations Commission on Climate Change be allowed access to any recount procedures.
“Mr. Gore has won an Emmy and an Oscar for his important work, not to mention a Nobel Peace Prize,” said a spokesman for the Vice President. “They don’t even have an Oscar ceremony in Russia. Who ever sees Russian films anyway?”
Some Gore supporters have accused Republicans of using dirty tricks to manipulate the results. One close advisor, requesting anonymity, claimed, “Putin is just the kind of civil-rights-trampling dictator the GOP loves to see in power. It would be interesting to sit down with those who voted and find out just how many have been subjected to Guantanamo-like coercion. Republicans knew Bush wouldn’t win, so this was the next best thing.”
So far, there have been no official comments from the White House, the Kremlin or Time.
*This was originally posted on Pat Sajak's website.*

 

[darkbeaver]

It would be unfortunate if Bush was the the only one saving as from such an egregious environmental tax. You think government is corrupt on a country wide scale how much power do we wish to give to an international bureaucracy?

I'm puzzeled about what we've overlooked s243a, that international bureaucracy already owns and exercises virtually complete and compelling power. Perhaps there's still crusts in your cupboard but mine are bare.

 

[Niflmir]

We are entering an era where we are seeing the development of a new resource: permission to emit. Everybody is scrambling to have as big a piece of the pie as they can get. International systems devoted to giving definition to this abstract resource and developing the economics of it are stalled due to the desire for the biggest piece of the pie as well as a lack of credibility in associates.

How do we prevent monetization of carbon debt? How do we prevent speculative attacks which drain our economy of the permissions to emit, thereby stalling industry or instigating permission inflation? How do we measure the permissive resource and balance it against the emission purchases, what is the peg? Given the coupling of this new economy to our old one, how will the unchanging nature of the resource pool lead to anything but longterm deflation like the gold standard before it? How can it be made so that unstable exchange rates cannot be used to abuse the new economy, how do we prevent permissions hoarding?

Everybody involved agrees we must limit our waste, but nobody knows how to set up a system of economics where the sought after resource is bad behavior.

 

[darkbeaver]

I can remember when the "Fart Tax" was a joke. Who's laughing now?:smile:

 

[EagleSmack]

I am all for doing things that save the environment. Believe me, I am no oil magnet nor do I get excited filling up my gas tank. I do not, nor will I ever own an SUV because I think it is crazy paying that much for an SUV and the amount it takes to fill the tank. I have a 4 cylinder car. The last one was a 4 cylinder as well.

I just think that these groups want to target big business just to make them pay. They want to slam heavy taxes on the oil companies and critisize them when in fact they are the worst offenders when it comes to consuming energy. They are unwilling to sacrifice themselves. I am all for LOCAL legislation providing I do not get hit in the wallet. I have pointed out the hypocricy of my own Senator a few times in this thread. Ted Kennedy is against a proposed windmill farm called "Cape Wind". It will provide clean electricity to Cape Cod. The kicker is that it is located off Hyannis where the Kennedy Compound is. That means when the rich and wealthy sail their yachts they will have to see them. The commoners like myself will not as they are a few miles off the shore. Kennedy is all for hitting big oil, supporting GW initiatives, etc. That is providing that they do not affect his lifestyle. A Clean Energy producing Windmill farm off Hyannis WILL directly affect his view from his yacht, therefore it is not acceptable.

 

[gopher]

A fair assessment of global warming:


http://www.environmentaldefense.org/page.cfm?tagID=1011

```he most respected scientific bodies have stated unequivocally that global warming is occurring, and people are causing it by burning fossil fuels (like coal, oil and natural gas) and cutting down forests. The U.S. National Academy of Sciences, which in 2005 the White House called "the gold standard of objective scientific assessment," issued a joint statement with 10 other National Academies of Science saying "the scientific understanding of climate change is now sufficiently clear to justify nations taking prompt action. It is vital that all nations identify cost-effective steps that they can take now, to contribute to substantial and long-term reduction in net global greenhouse gas emissions." ```


Yup, it appears to be real, not imaginary as the paid right wingers say.

 

[s243a]

A fair assessment of global warming:


http://www.environmentaldefense.org/page.cfm?tagID=1011

```he most respected scientific bodies have stated unequivocally that global warming is occurring, and people are causing it by burning fossil fuels (like coal, oil and natural gas) and cutting down forests. The U.S. National Academy of Sciences, which in 2005 the White House called "the gold standard of objective scientific assessment," issued a joint statement with 10 other National Academies of Science saying "the scientific understanding of climate change is now sufficiently clear to justify nations taking prompt action. It is vital that all nations identify cost-effective steps that they can take now, to contribute to substantial and long-term reduction in net global greenhouse gas emissions." ```


Yup, it appears to be real, not imaginary as the paid right wingers say.

Here's a pod cast for you:
(forgive my transcription)

The current level of CO2 in the atmosphere is 385 parts per million.
now I don't happen to accept that. it the figure that is put out by Mount Aloha and other places around the world. It's an average. Atmospheric CO2 varies significantly in any location from hour to hour, and we'll accept that as the figure, 385. 385 from the geological recored indicates that's a very very low reading.

Not as gore would have you believe that this is the highest reading on recored. Over 600 million years the average of CO2 in the atmosphere is about 1000 parts per million. and What's interesting about that is plants, through research at universities, and also practically in greenhouses, commercial greenhouses where they pump in up to 1000 parts per million of CO2, the plants grow four times more effectively.

and a so This suggests that at 385 PPM the plants are essentially mal nourished. and of course what the are are arguing for is to push the level down. While as you approach 200 parts per million the plants start to die and at 150 parts million the plants die. And if we have no plants we have no oxygen and no life on earth. and so here because gore and other saying, "oh CO2 is destroying the planet" and because they don't understand planet mechanisms they are in fact recommending is a worse death for the planet.

http://www.mypodcast.com/cached/splatto_20070525_1942-132899-19327-2-25-829588.mp3

 

[Tonington]

Going back 600 million years isn't useful for comparisons to today. The cycles are different, the activity on Earth was different. The best analog to what we're seeing now is in the Pliocene about 2 million years ago.

What the article doesn't mention is that you don't just pump in CO2 to a greenhouse. Only adding CO2 without other nutrients and more importantly water, will not give you much of a benefit at all.

No ones arguing to push the CO2 concentration down, that's a straw man. The scientists who make advisements on this suggest we should reduce our emissions to where the atmospheric levels stabilize. It takes a very long time for the concentration to go down.

 

[darkbeaver]

Al Gore Prostitutes Himself in Front of the Israeli Lobby

On May 18, 2000, Al Gore delivered a speech at the 39th Annual Policy
Conference of AIPAC. In a break with usual procedures, Gore's office refused to make copies of his speech easily available. However, an audio copy of that speech has been obtained from which the following transcript has been prepared (in some cases the spellings are phonetic and may not be fully accurate). Thanks to Middle East Realities for making this transcript available on the Internet.
---
Vice President Al Gore speech at the
AIPAC Conference

I can't tell you how glad I am see so many warm friends ...To my friend, Chairman Steve Grossman ... Mel Solberg, chairman of the conference of
presidents of major Jewish organizations ... To Minister Natan
Sharansky, my warm friend. Where are you, Natan? To my colleagues in
the administration who are present, Jack Lew, director of OMB; Martin
Indyk of the State Department; and John Holum of the State Department;
in the White House, Leon Fuerth and Marie Echaveste and Ann Lewis; and
so many other distinguished guests... ladies and gentlemen, I am truly delighted and honored to be here tonight. I want to salute you for your love of Israel, for your
energetic and enduring support of the U.S-Israel relationship...

We meet tonight, of course, in the jubilee year of our great friend,
Israel. And I must tell you on a personal note for my wife Tipper and
me, three weeks ago, the celebration of that jubilee was among the most moving moments of our lives. To sit with Prime Minister Netanyahu and his wife Sara, with President Weizman...to see the house of Israel gathered...in Jerusalem; to have the
honor and the challenge of putting into words to the people of Israel
the bottomless reservoir of love and respect felt for them by the people of the United States...

At that celebration, we were not merely celebrating that evening. We
were not simply honoring the passage of 50 years. We were honoring what has been achieved in those 50 years. Israel has opened its doors to millions from the farthest reaches of the globe and gathered them into a great nation. The Jewish love of justice has built a powerful democracy. The Jewish love of courage has built a powerful military...

One century ago, Israel was a dream. Half a century ago, Israel became
a reality. Today, Israel is a miracle. We in America believed in
Israel and loved Israel from the beginning. We are intensely proud
that 11 minutes after David Ben-Gurion declared the new state of
Israel, the United States, under the wise leadership of President Harry S Truman, became the first nation in the world to recognize Israel. And on that auspicious day was born not only one of the most enduring nations in history but also the most enduring friendship between nations in history.

Our admiration for Israel has never been greater; our commitment to Israel has never been stronger; our friendship with Israel has never been deeper; America stands by Israel now and forever. Our special relationship with Israel is unshakable; it is ironclad, eternal and absolute. It does not depend on the peace process; it transcends the peace process. Our differences are momentary, not permanent. They are about means and not ends. And let me say to my fellow citizens here in the United States, to our friends in Israel and let me say especially to the citizens of any nation who may wish Israel ill, don't you even think for one minute that any differences about this or that between the governments of the United States and Israel belie even the
slightest weakening in our underlying unity of purpose or will shake our relationship in any way, shape or form.

Our commitment to the security of Israel is unconditional and this
administration is acting decisively to meet that commitment. We provide more than $1 billion in annual economic assistance. We support
billions of dollars in joint economic ventures that have helped to make Israel into a second Silicon Valley. We support the binational industrial and agricultural research funds that have led to billions of dollars in product sales. We are Israel's largest trading partner, exceeding $12.5 billion per year. We pushed for the end of the Arab boycott of Israel that opened markets, expanded Israel's exports, and multiplied Israel's foreign investment.

Of course, we are not only committed to Israel's economic security, we are resolutely committed to Israel's military security. We provide
$1.8 billion annually in direct military assistance, including
advanced aircraft like the F-15 and the F-16, to help maintain Israel's qualitative edge in military capacity. In the face of growing
threats, we have worked to provide additional military assistance as
needed. And we intend to increase our direct military assistance in
the years to come...
atheo | 12.29.07 - 8:07 pm | #

 

[darkbeaver]

I have no doubts about global warming and the threat it represents to the planet but I also know that there will be no fix through the present capitalist neo-liberal cabal. Al Gore is worthless as an environmental saviour, his job is to divert the attention away from the real action of conquest and resource war, his act is pure hollywood and all hollywood, a pop production for blind consumption by the dumb masses, you and me, he works directly for the same factions that prevent any meaningful amelioration. So he sings, he shines, he blinks and flashes to the pop tune but he comes up lemons.
When he's done he will have ammased a wall full of worthless private sector awards for environmental stewardship while having been instrumental in it's further degradation. We were always environmentalists Winston.double plus good eh:smile:

 

[eh huh]

I have no doubts about global warming and the threat it represents to the planet but I also know that there will be no fix through the present capitalist neo-liberal cabal.

Meh, I am going with why on earth would you trust the mainstream media or a politician like Al Gore on anything. The global warming propaganda has been catapulted at the masses for years now and the effect is sinking in, we will accept the carbon taxes with little resistance. Every natural disaster is being tied to global warming now and a new "global warming" economy has been created with millions of "jobs" depending on it. Unfortunately, scientists are bought and sold as easily as politicians.

Al Gore was VP under Clinton, when electronic voting sans exit polls get Hillary into the White house the new taxes will be ushered in on the basis of a myth in the same way the Bill of Rights was dismantled under the Bush regime through the 9/11 - War On Terror myth. THEY really can create their own realities now since the tools of manipulation have grown ever more powerful and refined. I mean, who would ever doubt the United Nations?

Here is the future in a one minute video clip staring Al Gore, the message is clear and it goes something like this. "I want to continue flying around in my jet telling you how the world is ending, the best way to save the world is to pay me and my friends a tax" - and people are falling for it - unbelievable.

Oh, and if after watching this you seriously believe payroll taxes will be removed then I got a bridge to sell you:roll: