Aboriginal Cigarette Smuggling In Ontario-Quebec/USA
- Thread starter dumpthemonarchy
- Start date
The govt loses billions of bucks and does nothing. Strange. Usually when money is involved and quaint concepts like the crown and old treaties get in the way of this they get ignored. And with huge deficits?!!?!?!?
And these are Tories, a law and order crowd one would think.
Sure they can cross the border, but where does it say in the Jay Treaty they can carry contraband?
DTM, the Jay treaty says these people can cross the Canada and the US border freely and protects their trade relationships with other first nations.
These people were moving goods and services through this area before Canada and the US existed. The Jay treaty affirmed the status quo at the time.
Canada and the United States cannot legally interfere with trade relationships between first nations. However as soon as these people deal with non-natives on Canadian or US territory, then Canadian and US law applies. But if a Mohawk wants to drive a truckload of cigarettes, heroin or hand grenades from Akwasasne to Oka, as long as they are loose and not in bales or large packages, its legal...
If Canada truly is a nation of laws, then we have to respect all laws, not just pick and choose the ones we like.
Obviously we need to renegotiate this treaty.
These people were moving goods and services through this area before Canada and the US existed. The Jay treaty affirmed the status quo at the time.
Canada and the United States cannot legally interfere with trade relationships between first nations. However as soon as these people deal with non-natives on Canadian or US territory, then Canadian and US law applies. But if a Mohawk wants to drive a truckload of cigarettes, heroin or hand grenades from Akwasasne to Oka, as long as they are loose and not in bales or large packages, its legal...
If Canada truly is a nation of laws, then we have to respect all laws, not just pick and choose the ones we like.
Obviously we need to renegotiate this treaty.
Although the treaties allow for trade between FN's, the problem occurs (as you mentioned) when that trade extends into the non-FN community. Further, although the cross-border access is (supposed to be) unrestricted, that does not imply unrestricted free trade in products and items that are controlled substances.
Not so much it seems. A judge ordered them to repatriate a Canadian in Sudan and it seems that they sure don't want to follow the judges orders.
So maybe not so law and order when it suits them.
You assume the border applies to them. The Jay Treaty states it does not. Tobacco is also a controlled substance like heroin and hand grenades. I suspect most judges would tend to side with you, but legally, they aren't on solid ground regarding trade between FN's.
The border that I refer too is that between the reservation and Crown (or American) soil... You can bet that the FN groups that are 'importing' the items they have are intended to be sold outside their communities to non-FN persons, generally speaking someone must cross the border from the reservation lands into Crown lands (or vice verse), this is where the gvt will attack the issue.
But how do the auhorities determine the trade is illegal (between FN and non-FN people) or legal (between FN people)?
If the police stop a truck full of cigarettes being driven a FN person, how do they determine the final destination? If he goes to another FN its legal. If he delivers elsewhere its illegal.
Which is just one reason why this treaty and others with FNs must be renegotiated. We would have to compromise and ultimately FN people will end up with more rights than Canadian citizens. But that's the price we have to pay for having colonized Canada at their expense.
If the police stop a truck full of cigarettes being driven a FN person, how do they determine the final destination? If he goes to another FN its legal. If he delivers elsewhere its illegal.
Which is just one reason why this treaty and others with FNs must be renegotiated. We would have to compromise and ultimately FN people will end up with more rights than Canadian citizens. But that's the price we have to pay for having colonized Canada at their expense.
How about treating the 1st Nations as equals similar to what the try and do in the U.S. In the U.S. there Indian reservations are considered sovereign nations within the United States. Yet all native Americans living within the United States are full fledged United States citizens with all rights of any citizen. They can legally sell tax free cigarettes, tax free just about anything if they wish within their reservations.
Cdnbear, you say Six Nations never ceded sovereignty to the crown? Hard to believe, Indians have been herded onto reservations against their will. A new order has been established one cannot help but notice.
The lawyers say, "Oh, no worries, this is only de facto, not de jure law. No paper was produced that you understand states that things have changed over the past 500 years."
It's an awesome charade to maintain, keeps a lot of people employed. Continue, repeat. Legal fictions, unreal realities I guess.
The lawyers say, "Oh, no worries, this is only de facto, not de jure law. No paper was produced that you understand states that things have changed over the past 500 years."
It's an awesome charade to maintain, keeps a lot of people employed. Continue, repeat. Legal fictions, unreal realities I guess.
May I ask what an "Aboriginal" is in Canadian terms. I can only assume a native Canadian?
An Aboriginal to a Kiwi is an Aussie Native Aboriginal
An Aboriginal to a Kiwi is an Aussie Native Aboriginal