I read somewhere that the only sin is self hatred. Guilt is a form of self hatred. Feeling guilty for being human is just nuts.
A guide for guidance: how to choose your doctrine
- Thread starter eanassir
- Start date
None of those things are even important, if one doesn't
believe or comply with any of them. I don't relate to
the word 'sin', as it is just a word used to make people
feel guilty.
In reality there is right and wrong, and wrong is usually
when you hurt others or commit a crime, everything else
is whatever fits the individual.
In my life there is no such thing as a god, so all of that
babbling means nothing to me, I go my own way, dont hurt
others, don't commit crimes, and the rest is just what
ever fits between myself and my loved ones, and the earth.
If two people were standing together, knowing nothing of
a belief in a god, and all of a sudden one of them said,
I think there is a god, and I believe there is a god, and
the other said, what is a god, and the other gave his/her
definition, then the other person said, I haven't seen or
heard of such a thing, so I don't believe there is any
gods, until someone shows me one, or proves there is one,
then that is it, the person who doesn't believe is still in
the original position they both were shortly before, and
the other one has taken a new position, as a believer.
No pressure should be on the first person who remains the
same as they both 'were', to prove there is no gods, no
baby was ever born automatically believing in a god, someone had to teach him their own beliefs to encourage
the child to do the same, it is made up.
If a group of children grew up together, without anyone
trying to teach them to believe in a god, they wouldn't.
They would know nothing of such things.
There would be nothing in their lives but their intelligence, their ability to survive and learn, and
their interaction with each other, the ability to love,
reproduce, and make their way on the earth, to live the
best life they can manage.
So many of us, so many differences.
talloola, I agree. The notion of sin is taught to control.
Do no harm, live in a spirit of brotherhood. Nothing else is needed.
Do no harm, live in a spirit of brotherhood. Nothing else is needed.
Do you mean - reduce the laws and regulations of religion or just altogether as the world now is - reduce laws and regs. for all things? I think most of us can regulate ourselves depending on up bringing to a degree and whether we agree with that up bringing. How many times over the past few years have you read here (or there) where people were raised to a certain religion but now state they do not believe? I don't believe that looking at my neighbour's Lexus and pining for one of my own is a sin. I'm not pining for his lexus - I simply want my own. Now if I am pining for my neighbours husband, I guess that is considered a sin but I have to assume that as long as I make no attempt to make him a part of my life (btw - my neighbour doesn't have a husband), I still don't think I am sinning. I may not be able to control the way I feel but I can control how I choose to act upon those feelings. If I am going to feel guilt over those feelings, it would not be in a religious sense but in the betrayal of promises made to the person I am already married to. If I was not married, I would still not act on my feelings as I believe it is not my right to break up someone's home. Again - nothing to do with religion. I do not believe that God rewards us for anything and I'm not sure about punishment. I know that I have prayed for things that have "semi" happened in my life but more often than not, the things I have prayed for have always been things that were either un-answered or that the answer was NO. I know that right now I am truly struggling with my beliefs. Does a lack of response or at the very least, what feels like a lack of response mean that I do not have enough faith? Does it mean simply NO. Is there ever a time God gives a resounding YES to anything? Even Mother Theresa stated that in the last years of her life she did not feel God's presence. I think I know what she means. It's like God died and no one told us. Jesus must have too because all negative responses must mean there is no one there to answer. Funny ....... Good Will Hunting is playing on TV. I think that's what I'm doing. I'm searching for some kind of good will.
Universal Brotherhood can only come about when everybody suspends belief in deities. Until them we will always be arguing and fighting over who is right and who is more favoured by these imaginary beings.
"I believe in gnomes. If you don't, you are hooped."
In Iceland they believe in 'hidden people" and try to avoid disturbing them. Authorities will put a bend in a road if they think 'hidden people" have a home in a rocky outcrop that would have to be bulldozed to straighten the roadway.
In North America we believe in "hidden gods' and try to avoid disturbing them. We will put roadblocks in our lives...
In North America we believe in "hidden gods' and try to avoid disturbing them. We will put roadblocks in our lives...
The Quran is not only the warning of not complying to God's way; it is far more than this important subject.
Read at least the translation of the meaning of the Quran by a non-Muslim translator: A J Arberry
Arberry Quran translation
(although his translation is much defective; and any translation is only the translation of the meaning according to the understanding of such translator.)
And see the books related to the Quran interpretation by the late interpreter of the Quran and the Bible: Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly:
Quran Interpretation
The Universe and the Quran
The Universe and the Quran
Man after Death
Man after Death
The conflict between the Torah and the Quran
The Disagreement of the
Retorting the Atheist
Retorting the Atheist
An Hour among the ghosts
An Hour with Ghosts
And if you know Arabic, see now: The interpretation of the Ambiguous Ayat of the Quran - part one.
المتشابه من القرآن 1The Universe and the Quran
Man after Death
Man after Death
The conflict between the Torah and the Quran
The Disagreement of the
Retorting the Atheist
Retorting the Atheist
An Hour among the ghosts
An Hour with Ghosts
And if you know Arabic, see now: The interpretation of the Ambiguous Ayat of the Quran - part one.
Thank you. No, I don't read Arabic.
Was not the Koran provided to the People of the Arabic Language by Gabriel?
Specifically Gabriel?
The Quran is the word of God revealed in Arabic; it is revealed by the angel Gabriel to Prophet Mohammed who in turn conveyed it to people as did hear it from the angel Gabriel.
As it is in the Quran 26: 192-195
وَإِنَّهُ لَتَنزِيلُ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ . نَزَلَ بِهِ الرُّوحُ الْأَمِينُ . عَلَى قَلْبِكَ لِتَكُونَ مِنَ الْمُنذِرِينَ . بِلِسَانٍ عَرَبِيٍّ مُّبِينٍ
The explanation:
(And the [Quran] is the revealing of the Lord of the worlds.
The 'Trustworthy Ghost' [Gabriel] came down with it,
Upon your heart [O Mohammed], that you should become [one] of those who warn [people against idolatry].
In a fluent Arabic language.)
http://www.quran-ayat.com/
(And the [Quran] is the revealing of the Lord of the worlds.
The 'Trustworthy Ghost' [Gabriel] came down with it,
Upon your heart [O Mohammed], that you should become [one] of those who warn [people against idolatry].
In a fluent Arabic language.)
http://www.quran-ayat.com/
Is not the teaching of God's word to be auditory, in the manner in which Gabriel gave the word to Mohammed and Mohammed did to the people of his day?
Visual teaching, as you well know stimulates only the brain, the concepts and functions of "Measure", while auditory teachings speak to the heart. Why would you do this against custom?
He who has ears, let him hear, in my teaching.
This is to answer darkbeaver:
The idolaters of Mecca killed some of the believers, persecuted the rest and drove the prophet and the believers out of their hometown, then robbed their property and stole their wealth.
Afterwards, when the prophet and the believers migrated to Medina, they were permitted to fight their persecutors: the idolaters of Mecca.
So a group of Muslims went to fight the idolaters
the associaters) of Mecca, then they met some of the idolaters the associaters) who were not the Meccans; these idolaters had some property and wealth, so they killed them and took their property; therefore this aya 2: 190 was revealed:
The idolaters of Mecca killed some of the believers, persecuted the rest and drove the prophet and the believers out of their hometown, then robbed their property and stole their wealth.
Afterwards, when the prophet and the believers migrated to Medina, they were permitted to fight their persecutors: the idolaters of Mecca.
So a group of Muslims went to fight the idolaters
the associaters) of Mecca, then they met some of the idolaters the associaters) who were not the Meccans; these idolaters had some property and wealth, so they killed them and took their property; therefore this aya 2: 190 was revealed:وَقَاتِلُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ الَّذِينَ يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ وَلاَ تَعْتَدُواْ إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يُحِبِّ الْمُعْتَدِينَ
The explanation:
(Fight in the way of God against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities; God does not love aggressors.)
It means:
Believers, fight for the cause of God, not for the purpose of money;
And fight against those idolaters who fought and transgressed on you, robbed your property and expelled you from your homes,
But do not fight the idolaters who did not begin hostilities against you and do not transgress on any people unless they started the aggression against you; for God does not love the transgressor.
http://www.quran-ayat.com/conflicts/english3.htm#The_Jihad_the_Holy_War
(Fight in the way of God against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities; God does not love aggressors.)
It means:
Believers, fight for the cause of God, not for the purpose of money;
And fight against those idolaters who fought and transgressed on you, robbed your property and expelled you from your homes,
But do not fight the idolaters who did not begin hostilities against you and do not transgress on any people unless they started the aggression against you; for God does not love the transgressor.
http://www.quran-ayat.com/conflicts/english3.htm#The_Jihad_the_Holy_War
And do you know what a Muslim is, DHW? People cannot agree as to what is a Muslim. The only criteria is (as far as I am concerned) that he believe in Allah and proclaim himself to be a Muslim.
That is the only criteria on which there would be a general agreement. Other than that people don’t agree on what a Muslim is. Is Muslim somebody who does not wear a veil? What about somebody who drinks alcohol, is that a Muslim? And if somebody drinks alcohol and also considers himself a Muslim, are you going to sit in judgment on him and tell him that he is not a Muslim?
Same way, what is a Christian? If somebody supports abortion, is he a Christian? How about somebody who supports gay marriage? Somebody who does not believe in Creationism? Do you know what a Christian is (other than somebody who accepts the Lordship, the Divinity of Christ)?
I don’t sit in judgment on people. If somebody says he is a Muslim (or a Christian) he is one in my opinion.
Incidentally, I did not say that I like to pile it on. What I said was that I thrive when I am being piled upon.
Quite so, Spade. Who defines who is a Christian? Who defines who is a Muslim? I don't think DHW meant it when she said (or implied) that she knows what a Muslim is. There has been an untold amount of strife, untold amount of killing because some people took it upon themselves to decide as to who is a Muslim (or a Christian) and who isn't.
There are many Muslims who drink alcohol (we know a doctor who worked in Saudi Arabia and he tells me that in many hospitals over there, there are wards for alcoholics) and still consider themselves good Muslims.
Last edited:
I know plenty about Christianity, DHW, more than many Christians, and I also know plenty abot Islam, more than at least some Muslims.
And I know enough about both Christianity and Islam to know that I am not in a position to judge who is a Muslim (or Christian) and who isn't. That is best left up to the individual to decide.
I'll save you a little trouble- Spade and I, between us got it worked out yesterday. See post 170 for the final definition.
As I've already informed you, Spade and I arrived at a workable definition yesterday. Being a Hindu doesn't preclude a person from being a Christian anymore than a person who has French blood doesn't preclude him from having Norwegian blood.