Men do gymnastics , their tumbling skills are amazing as well work on the bars . You best watch the U.S. Olympic qualifying.
2SLGBTQQIA+
- Thread starter B00Mer
- Start date
To you I sidestepped the question.
Trans women are women, thus they should compete in female sports. Now, I do think there should be conditions for them to qualify, such as needing to have more feminine levels of testosterone in order to compete, to have proper estrogen levels. They should also have a record of at least 2 years of hormone transition with testing of levels to ensure that the proper gender hormones are at what is considered 'normal' levels.
Situations like this are also one reason why I support youth transition and blockers; because it prevents this from being an issue as adults. Trans people at this point are still dealing with/suffering from the hormones they went through at puberty and not able to have the lives they want, whereas youth now can have a better chance to live their lives for what they want. And IMO, anyone who bitches about trans women in sports now and how they have "advantages" should support blockers too, or hormone transition. If they don't, then their arguments are bullshit when it comes to trans issues and sports.
But then that also brings the question to bare if a woman has higher T than some naturally, does that automatically disqualify them from competitions? I'm sure a lot of people would say yes, but how is it any fault of that woman's that her T is higher? And what if the levels fluctuate? They're fine at one test, then high on another.
In the end though, trans women are women and yes they should be allowed to compete in women's sports. Cause they're women.
Tough calls above. Same with the other side. Zero flexibility means zero compromise.
Two different issues. Children and hormonal blockers or surgeries is one of the issues. The other is transgender athletes. It’s not a you can’t complain about one if you don’t agree with the other in a black and white world.
There’s a good reason why children cannot rent cars or sign legal documents, or buy alcohol or cigarettes or vote or get a tattoo because they are still children. That’s a separate issue.
Two different issues. Children and hormonal blockers or surgeries is one of the issues. The other is transgender athletes. It’s not a you can’t complain about one if you don’t agree with the other in a black and white world.
There’s a good reason why children cannot rent cars or sign legal documents, or buy alcohol or cigarettes or vote or get a tattoo because they are still children. That’s a separate issue.
Thanx for clarifying your position. I don't agree with it. I think I have stated my view before. I think this is a case (for me at least) to agree to disagree as I don't see either of us changing the others mind.
Yes, because one is a man and the other is a woman (or trans women, but still women regardless of the prefix before 'woman')
They can be to some, yes, but that's a societal issue and misogyny issue, not a fault of the trans woman.
Are you a man just because you say you are?
Well Anne I'm not sure, I'd have to look into her (to be fair, I'm not a woman powerlifter so what I'd say is moot anyway).
Avi IS actually a male, and again, did this to prove a point or some shit. So in his case, it actually was a man powerlifting in a woman's competition. That's totally different.
Respect? Sure respect could come into it, if it was given to all involved, but since it's not... *shrug*
Uh, well put a stop on that first Ron. Lia is a victim when it comes how she was treated after the competition and the freak out people have over someone winning and someone losing.
Sharing the shower, as you put it; I've not made my opinion on that know. What I DO think about the situation though is that the girls should have been told beforehand, so if they might have felt uncomfortable, they would be able to prepare before or after Lia. And if Lia had an issue with that, then she'd have to get over it herself out of respect to them.
The fact you say Lia is a "man in a woman's swimsuit" when she is not, when she's historically been transitioning for a while by that time does, yes, put you in the position of being anti-trans, despite suggesting that you are indifferent otherwise.
That's true, and you're one of the few who I find regardless of your position, you do try to be somewhat polite about it. Even when you post right wing/transphobic BS
Unlike others here who are blatant about their bigotry and transphobia.
True nuff.
Oh I can agree with that. There could very well be an unfair advantage, depending on the transition and timing of it for the trans woman.
Well first off, how long was Avi in transition vs. Anne? You said so yourself, "Avi “transitioned/identified as” about 10 minutes before the competition and then “de-transitioned/identified as differently” immediately afterwards." So, Ron, no, no Avi is NOT a trans woman and is not an equal since Anne has been in transition for 20 years. She's even had surgery. So there is NO comparing the two.
Well I don't trust anything the Daily Caller puts out; find me an independant, unbiased source that says she said this, and I'll agree that attitudes like that don't belong at all (and it's that shit that comes from Fallon the reason why I won't side with the twat).
And someone could say the same about a woman taking Lia's place in the pool against women.
Winners and losers, someone is taking another's place.
And if you insist that a trans woman is still a man, that makes you transphobic.
I think you're seeing the non-trans people as victims and trans people as some sort of oppressors or something. As for trans people being the only victims? Depends on the situation. In the case of Lia Thomas - there are no 'victims'. In the case of Fallon Fox? Yeah, the people she fought are victims. Just because I stand for trans people and their rights doesn't mean they all get some sort of free pass.
In my 'hypothetical' situation above, I'm talking trans men being pushed into women's sports, because they are according to those who are anti-trans, "biological women". It's only hypothetical because it's not been outright done, but it IS what is being pushed for.
By rights, because they are men, it shouldn't matter - your answer should have been an automatic "no". Because "men shouldn't be in women's sports".
That said, to your questions then.
In my hypothetical situation, the trans men may or may not be in transition. Whether a person takes hormones is up to the individual per situation. If a trans man doesn't want to take hormones, then they would still have the hormones of the other competitors. If however they decided to take T, then they would have more testosterone before and likely at that time since T would be something for them for the rest of their life. But they are still "biologically women", so what does it matter? Hormones don't matter, only the "Biology", the body parts...
Or does it only matter when it's trans women?
Oh FFS I hope you're just being facetious with that comment with mentioning Trudeau. Fuckhead has nothing to do with this.
I think we’re in the same camp here, and Serryah & I will also have to agree to disagree on many points here.
You threw the question at me below so I’ll put the same one back to you. What automatically makes a Trans-Woman a woman.
So if someone doesn’t believe what you believe, then they’re misogynist then here?
I happen to have been born male, grew up male, went though male puberty, I’ve check the box ‘male’ since birth, happen to have XY Chromosomes, fathered a child, etc…but please see above.
I’m also not a woman power lifter, so we’re together on this one.
Avi & Anne, both, Where born males, went through male puberty, etc…etc…& both identified as female to compete in woman’s power lifting. I don’t see the difference beyond Anne’s comments online about the woman’s power lifters vs ACI’s non-comment about it. We will have to agree to disagree I guess.
Watch the attached video where Anne talks about fellow competitors.
Lia chose to join the woman’s swim team. What was stopping Lia from competing on the Men’s swim team beyond that fact the Lia was placed below the 200th ranking based upon ability?
From what I understand that’s not how it went down, or the options that were given, or the threats if anybody said anything, etc
Agree to disagree?
So, unless somebody has the same opinion as yourself on the subject than they are bigoted & transphobic then?That's true, and you're one of the few who I find regardless of your position, you do try to be somewhat polite about it. Even when you post right wing/transphobic BS
Unlike others here who are blatant about their bigotry and transphobia.
Yeah, well. Agree to disagree again?
I don’t see much difference between the two of them at all except one is much more honest.
Ignore the source and listen to the words coming out of Anne Andres mouth, or find the same clip from a different source. Your call.
But it wasn’t a woman, but a man, in this case.
Yeah. Twisted but I get where you’re coming from. Agree to disagree again?
And if I don’t believe exactly what you believe, does that make you something also?
Running out of time on my lunch break, so I’ll have to come back to this later…
Yes, below I was being facetious, with an almost attempt at humor, regarding our Canadian commander for our US comrade.
She is batshit crazy.
BTW thanks to Mr Lia Thomas trans have been banned from pro competitions leading to national title or the Olympics
World swimming bans transgender athletes from women’s events
FINA’s new 24-page policy also includes proposals for a new “open competition” category.
BUDAPEST, Hungary — World swimming’s governing body has effectively banned transgender women from competing in women’s events, starting Monday.
FINA members widely adopted a new “gender inclusion policy” on Sunday that only permits swimmers who transitioned before age 12 to compete in women’s events. The organization also proposed an “open competition category.”
“This is not saying that people are encouraged to transition by the age of 12. It’s what the scientists are saying, that if you transition after the start of puberty, you have an advantage, which is unfair,” James Pearce, who is the spokesperson for FINA president Husain Al-Musallam, told The Associated Press.
“They’re not saying everyone should transition by age 11, that’s ridiculous. You can’t transition by that age in most countries and hopefully you wouldn’t be encouraged to. Basically, what they’re saying is that it is not feasible for people who have transitioned to compete without having an advantage.”
Pearce confirmed there are currently no transgender women competing in elite levels of swimming.
The World Professional Association for Transgender Health just lowered its recommended minimum age for starting gender transition hormone treatment to 14 and some surgeries to 15 or 17.
FINA’s new 24-page policy also includes proposals for a new “open competition” category. The organization said it was setting up “a new working group that will spend the next six months looking at the most effective ways to set up this new category.”
Pearce told the AP that the open competition would most likely mean more events, but those details still need to be worked out.
World swimming bans transgender athletes from women’s events
FINA’s new 24-page policy also includes proposals for a new “open competition” category.
www.politico.com
Pretty much, but that's okay. I still am enjoying the discussion.
Automatically? Nothing. It takes trans women years to come to terms, usually, with being who they are. That said, that is changing because there are trans kids now being allowed to be recognized for the gender they are.
We can't base the decision of gender on "Feelings" per say, even though that's what most people use as the describing word, because gender is more than feeling. And that branches off into a whole other discussion, I think.
Depends. If someone says to me "I don't believe in Trans women", well that to me just makes them not willing to see reality, because when I hear "believe" I look at that as a term or phrase equal to "Faith", like faith in a God or something, and trans people are not that kind of thing. They are real people.
Which is why I don't say being trans is a "belief", it is a reality. It's as real to the trans person as your gender is to you; if we get to invalidate their gender, should we invalidate yours? Everyone's?
But if someone says to me that "Trans women aren't women", yes I do think it's misogynist. What usually follows up with that phrase is "Because they have male body parts" or "they are biologically male" and to me, it boils down to the lack of understanding that anyone would "want to be a woman", as if being a woman is a choice and being a woman is lesser somehow. And in that sense, that's total misogyny.
Sure, so your gender is male then?
But how do you know? Because what makes your certainty of gender more than that of a trans person's certainty of their gender? Why should I trust your certainty, but not theirs?
See why it gets complicated? If I have to trust you to know your gender, then I trust a trans person to know theirs.
True nuff.The difference is time; 20 years of transition vs saying "Hey I'm a woman" right before and then right after "Nah, not a woman". The later is NOT signs of a trans woman.
Find me a video that isn't from a biased news source first. Or I can try to find one when I get home, but again, I am not trusting any video from The Daily Caller.
After being in transition for 30 months. Two and a half years. The required time allowed for trans women before being allowed to compete against other women is just 12 months, so she did a year and a half more.
So by the rules of the NCAA, she could compete.
From what I understand, no that's not how it went down. That SHOULD have been how it went though, and that's the point. And it should be how it goes for anyone else, at least if and until the trans woman has bottom surgery. And if a trans woman doesn't choose to have that, then they need to get that some women do feel uncomfortable/triggered by them and actually be considerate of that reaction.
Fair 'nuff.
No. There are a few people I know who don't have the same opinion as me and I wouldn't call them either of those, mainly because comments about trans people don't come up in our conversations. If in the odd run of a convo it does and they give their opinion, I give mine, and then it's agree to disagree. But if it's continued and insisted, then yes, I'd call them out for being a bigot or transphobic. Because it's not just an opinion to me, it's people's lives.
There's a lot of it in this issue, and I get it.
Agree to disagree
Well I did say I'd look myself later. Haven't really had time today as I'm still at work.
Agree to disagree.
Ditto.
I suppose it could: stubborn, ignorant, "leftist", "Woke" come to mind.
Haha, same. Or well, almost end of work for me, thank goodness.
LOL - well to be fair yesterday I saw people posting the stupidest shit about Trudeau that at this point it's almost in echo of what people do for Trump.
And truthfully Ron, despite our differences on this issue, I'd much prefer getting into discussions like this with you over others here. Even when we disagree, it's more 'civil' whereas in other convo's it just gets to being irritating and worse rather quickly.
Amplifying the delusions of lunatics doesnt make the lunatics a special kind of lunatic, they are still lunatics.
They need help not encouragement to go crazier.
They need help not encouragement to go crazier.
Gender identity clinic accused of fast-tracking young adults
This article is more than 4 years old and since then the clinic has been closed
Tavistock Centre launches review amid parents’ fears over pace of transitioning decisions
Jamie Doward
Sat 3 Nov 2018 21.30 GMT
Britain’s only NHS gender identity service for children is reviewing its operations amid claims made by a senior member of staff that it is failing to examine fully the psychological and social reasons behind young people’s desire to change gender.
The views are shared by a group of parents of transgender children, who have raised their own concerns that the Tavistock Centre’s gender identity development service (GIDS) in London is “fast-tracking” young people into life-altering decisions without fully assessing their personal histories.
In a letter to the trust’s board, seen by the Observer, the parents say they fear “the GIDS team is being asked to engage with and assess complex and difficult cases within a highly constrained time frame”.
They continue: “We have specific concerns about the situation of those with gender dysphoria in the age group 17 to 25 who are referred to the [adult] GIC [gender identity clinic], where they do not receive the complex psychosocial assessment offered at GIDS: for these young adults there is little exploration of the family or cultural context of their still developing gender identity.”
The Tavistock confirmed that a senior member of staff had submitted a report to its board, raising issues about its service. The Observer believes that the report questions whether the clinic should do more to consider young people’s personal histories, notably by examining whether they are on the autistic spectrum, have experienced trauma or are being influenced by social pressures, before helping them on the path to transition. As a result, the clinic has begun an internal review, to see whether these views are shared more broadly by staff.
In a statement, the Tavistock said: “A document has been produced that makes allegations about the service. In response, our medical director is conducting a review of the issues raised. All staff in the service are aware of the review and have been encouraged by both our medical director and chief executive to avail themselves of this opportunity to express their own views about the service.”
www.theguardian.com
This article is more than 4 years old and since then the clinic has been closed
Tavistock Centre launches review amid parents’ fears over pace of transitioning decisions
Jamie Doward
Sat 3 Nov 2018 21.30 GMT
Britain’s only NHS gender identity service for children is reviewing its operations amid claims made by a senior member of staff that it is failing to examine fully the psychological and social reasons behind young people’s desire to change gender.
The views are shared by a group of parents of transgender children, who have raised their own concerns that the Tavistock Centre’s gender identity development service (GIDS) in London is “fast-tracking” young people into life-altering decisions without fully assessing their personal histories.
In a letter to the trust’s board, seen by the Observer, the parents say they fear “the GIDS team is being asked to engage with and assess complex and difficult cases within a highly constrained time frame”.
They continue: “We have specific concerns about the situation of those with gender dysphoria in the age group 17 to 25 who are referred to the [adult] GIC [gender identity clinic], where they do not receive the complex psychosocial assessment offered at GIDS: for these young adults there is little exploration of the family or cultural context of their still developing gender identity.”
The Tavistock confirmed that a senior member of staff had submitted a report to its board, raising issues about its service. The Observer believes that the report questions whether the clinic should do more to consider young people’s personal histories, notably by examining whether they are on the autistic spectrum, have experienced trauma or are being influenced by social pressures, before helping them on the path to transition. As a result, the clinic has begun an internal review, to see whether these views are shared more broadly by staff.
In a statement, the Tavistock said: “A document has been produced that makes allegations about the service. In response, our medical director is conducting a review of the issues raised. All staff in the service are aware of the review and have been encouraged by both our medical director and chief executive to avail themselves of this opportunity to express their own views about the service.”
Gender identity clinic accused of fast-tracking young adults
Tavistock Centre launches review amid parents’ fears over pace of transitioning decisions
nowadays it's just as likely that the kid is a boy and mommy's been dressing him and doing his hair that way for years. sick mommy > poor kid
As high as 30% (maybe more) of alleged trans kids are autistic. Trans may very well be on the soectrum
Transgender and nonbinary people are up to six times more likely to have autism Transgender and nonbinary people are up to six times more likely to also have autism. This intersection has researchers trying to understand the connection and how society views these identities.15 janv. 2023
https://www.npr.org › 2023/01/15
Transgender and nonbinary people are up to six times more likely to have autism
Saskatchewan is changing policies on students changing names and pronouns, requiring the children under the age of 16 to get parental or guardian consent.
www.cjme.com
apple.news
Now, Saskatchewan has followed suit.
In a letter signed by the province’s Minister of Education Dustin Duncan, the ministry was directed to review the “health education curriculum and relevant ministry approved or recommend resources to ensure alignment with the intent of the curriculum outcomes, as well as age appropriateness for use in a school setting.”
It repeated the logic used by N.B. Premier Blaine Higgs and some members of his cabinet such as “recognizing the important role of parents in protecting and supporting their children.”
However, advocates say the language in “New Brunswick’s” changes violates the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
New Brunswick and Saskatchewan aren’t the only ones mulling changes. In Manitoba, on the doorstep of an election, Premier Heather Stephanson is promising to make similar amendments if re-elected.
Swift reaction to education policy changes in Saskatchewan
People across Saskatchewan are reacting to the newest provincial policy changes for students heading back to s...
www.cjme.com
Saskatchewan joins N.B. in changes to LGBTQ inclusion policy in schools — Global News
Other provinces are joining or are planning to join New Brunswick in changes to education policies that protect LGBTQ students in schools.
It’s been two months since the New Brunswick government made controversial changes to an LGBTQ inclusion policy in schools.
Now, Saskatchewan has followed suit.
In a letter signed by the province’s Minister of Education Dustin Duncan, the ministry was directed to review the “health education curriculum and relevant ministry approved or recommend resources to ensure alignment with the intent of the curriculum outcomes, as well as age appropriateness for use in a school setting.”
It repeated the logic used by N.B. Premier Blaine Higgs and some members of his cabinet such as “recognizing the important role of parents in protecting and supporting their children.”
However, advocates say the language in “New Brunswick’s” changes violates the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
New Brunswick and Saskatchewan aren’t the only ones mulling changes. In Manitoba, on the doorstep of an election, Premier Heather Stephanson is promising to make similar amendments if re-elected.
Saskatchewan is changing policies on students changing names and pronouns, requiring the children under the age of 16 to get parental or guardian consent.
Swift reaction to education policy changes in Saskatchewan
People across Saskatchewan are reacting to the newest provincial policy changes for students heading back to s...Saskatchewan joins N.B. in changes to LGBTQ inclusion policy in schools — Global News
Other provinces are joining or are planning to join New Brunswick in changes to education policies that protect LGBTQ students in schools.
It’s been two months since the New Brunswick government made controversial changes to an LGBTQ inclusion policy in schools.
Now, Saskatchewan has followed suit.
In a letter signed by the province’s Minister of Education Dustin Duncan, the ministry was directed to review the “health education curriculum and relevant ministry approved or recommend resources to ensure alignment with the intent of the curriculum outcomes, as well as age appropriateness for use in a school setting.”
It repeated the logic used by N.B. Premier Blaine Higgs and some members of his cabinet such as “recognizing the important role of parents in protecting and supporting their children.”
However, advocates say the language in “New Brunswick’s” changes violates the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
New Brunswick and Saskatchewan aren’t the only ones mulling changes. In Manitoba, on the doorstep of an election, Premier Heather Stephanson is promising to make similar amendments if re-elected.
Yes, and in that review, which Higgs is now going over, it says that Higgs violated the Charter for the kids.
New Brunswick's child and youth advocate to review changes to LGBTQ policy in schools
New Brunswick's child and youth advocate has called for written submissions from the public as he reviews the changes made to the province's policy on sexual orientation and gender identity in schools.
Advocate says N.B.’s gender-identity policy violates children’s rights | RCI
Kelly Lamrock was ordered to hold consultations on controversial Policy 713 for province's schools
ici.radio-canada.ca
Also, the kids names were not being CHANGED in NB. Legally that could not happen. What was happening is that if a kid wished to have their new name used, or pronouns matching their gender used in school, they could. It was a respect of the request of the kids. NOTHING was changed legally.
Huh... looking for the links for the advocate's review, this popped up.
So the New Brunswick Women's Council joined in to ask for the advocate to review 713.
And do a pretty in depth look into the issue.
So wonder if the Women's Council of NB is going to be protested against since it seems to be an ally to GLBTQIA+ people.
Its going to make the autistic kids who think they are trans commit suicide or join same sex sports teams.Saskatchewan is changing policies on students changing names and pronouns, requiring the children under the age of 16 to get parental or guardian consent.
Swift reaction to education policy changes in Saskatchewan
People across Saskatchewan are reacting to the newest provincial policy changes for students heading back to s...Saskatchewan joins N.B. in changes to LGBTQ inclusion policy in schools — Global News
Other provinces are joining or are planning to join New Brunswick in changes to education policies that protect LGBTQ students in schools.
It’s been two months since the New Brunswick government made controversial changes to an LGBTQ inclusion policy in schools.
Now, Saskatchewan has followed suit.
In a letter signed by the province’s Minister of Education Dustin Duncan, the ministry was directed to review the “health education curriculum and relevant ministry approved or recommend resources to ensure alignment with the intent of the curriculum outcomes, as well as age appropriateness for use in a school setting.”
It repeated the logic used by N.B. Premier Blaine Higgs and some members of his cabinet such as “recognizing the important role of parents in protecting and supporting their children.”
However, advocates say the language in “New Brunswick’s” changes violates the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
New Brunswick and Saskatchewan aren’t the only ones mulling changes. In Manitoba, on the doorstep of an election, Premier Heather Stephanson is promising to make similar amendments if re-elected.
I found the above links just before the end of the work day while out for a smoke. Thought it would be worth learning about and discussing.
Know little about it at this point, but when my Son was younger (he’s 35 now) if shit was happening in the school with my child behind my back with a conscious decision by others to keep it from me, that wouldn’t have gone over well to say the least.
I would’ve supported him in just about any not completely retarded decision, but I wouldn’t of appreciated somebody else stepping in to decide what I did, or didn’t need to know about my own child.
Know little about it at this point, but when my Son was younger (he’s 35 now) if shit was happening in the school with my child behind my back with a conscious decision by others to keep it from me, that wouldn’t have gone over well to say the least.
I would’ve supported him in just about any not completely retarded decision, but I wouldn’t of appreciated somebody else stepping in to decide what I did, or didn’t need to know about my own child.
The Alphabet Nazis have no idea how far a parent(s) will go to protect their child(ren).
A threatened child will turn the sweetest, meekest most level headed woman or man into a killer in a heartbeat.