2SLGBTQQIA+

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
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I have a question for the types who insist (with a perplexing level of hysteria) that there are two, exactly two, and only two genders, and that every single human bean who ever lived is one of the two and absolutely not the other. . .

Have you ever heard of hermaphrodites?

What are they?
 
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Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,564
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Regina, Saskatchewan
I have a question for the types who insist (with a perplexing level of hysteria) that there are two, exactly two, and only two genders, and that every single human bean who ever lived is one of the two and absolutely not the other. . .

Have you ever heard of hermaphrodites?

What are they?
Like unicorns? It’s an old term that’s been dropped like brontosaurus. Apparently the never were any brontosaurus, as they where mislabeled dinosaurs of other species, & apparently there never were true hermaphrodites as you think of them.

Try & google hermaphrodite to figure out what actual percentage of the human population population are true hermaphrodites. I did, a few minutes ago, expecting to find something like 1:100,000 or something instead of zero.

Apparently hermaphrodites both exist and don’t exist, in a state like Schrodinger‘s cat, Depending on how many different different links you read through.
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
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Washington DC
Like unicorns? It’s an old term that’s been dropped like brontosaurus. Apparently the never were any brontosaurus, as they where mislabeled dinosaurs of other species, & apparently there never were true hermaphrodites as you think of them.

Try & google hermaphrodite to figure out what actual percentage of the human population population are true hermaphrodites. I did, a few minutes ago, expecting to find something like 1:100,000 or something instead of zero.

Apparently hermaphrodites both exist and don’t exist, in a state like Schrodinger‘s cat, Depending on how many different different links you read through.
Nope, doesn't work. When somebody insists that there are two genders, no more, no less, and that they ae completely mutually exclusive, then a single example of a person who doesn't fit the model invalidates the model.

Simple logic, old bean.
 
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Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,564
8,279
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Regina, Saskatchewan
Nope, doesn't work. When somebody insists that there are two genders, no more, no less, and that they ae completely mutually exclusive, then a single example of a person who doesn't fit the model invalidates the model.

Simple logic, old bean.
If you say so. Apparently, for this condition of being a hermaphrodite, It doesn’t exist yet it is most common in the human population in the southern portion of Africa. Weirdly interesting.

Much like all roads lead to Rome, most searches of the term hermaphrodite lead to the modern term intersex….& some of the links don’t even mention the term hermaphrodite. Then, as far as a percentage of the human population, the percentages are all over the board with respect to the term intersex.

I don’t want it to sound like I know what I’m talking about, as 20 minutes ago I knew zero & now I know slightly more than zero, which for debates sake might actually be worse. 😉
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
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Washington DC
I find the whole thing very confusing. The biological part is simple: most people fit into bands of characteristics that we call "male" or "female." Some seem to split it right up the middle, biologically. This simply proves that the insistence that "male" and "female" are mutually exclusive ain't the whole story.

Now, on to the social aspects. It seems odd to me that as we are erasing the legal distinctions between men and women, now everybody's focussing on the social distinctions, even though they're purely imaginary. Wearing a skirt does not make one a biological woman (ask a Scot). Men in particular have been cross-dressing in private forever. Who gives a shit if they do it in public? Is it really worth running around with your hair on fire screaming "GROOMERS!" and proposing stupid-ass laws?
 
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Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
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New Brunswick
I find the whole thing very confusing.

There's nothing wrong with being confused about it; even we GLBTQIA+ are confused with stuff, mostly because the language changes and if you're not as into it as some others are, you miss out.

The biological part is simple: most people fit into bands of characteristics that we call "male" or "female." Some seem to split it right up the middle, biologically. This simply proves that the insistence that "male" and "female" are mutually exclusive ain't the whole story.

Exactly.

And then within those two characteristics are variances too, which further complicates stuff.

Now, on to the social aspects. It seems odd to me that as we are erasing the legal distinctions between men and women, now everybody's focussing on the social distinctions, even though they're purely imaginary.

The social aspect of male/female has been in flux since we dropped out of the trees; the issue is people having these ideas of what the male/female is, vs. what the 'reality' might be. With reality meaning more to one's experience than someone else's.

The issue though is that gender is now more a social construct than something physical, because limiting it to just the physical means you've cancelled out a lot of people who do not fit that 'scientific' stance, and we've learned that the thought of binary of XX/XY is more complicated. So if the genetics are, the social aspect has to be too.

Wearing a skirt does not make one a biological woman (ask a Scot). Men in particular have been cross-dressing in private forever. Who gives a shit if they do it in public? Is it really worth running around with your hair on fire screaming "GROOMERS!" and proposing stupid-ass laws?

And here is where I think it's not necessarily that it's a "man wearing a dress", but rather the underlying misogyny of society being shoved out into the open.

Put a woman in a dress, it's expected.

Put a woman in pants, well now a days it's okay because it just makes sense to wear 'trousers' over skirts. So skirts/dresses are a choice.

As you pointed out, kilts are a warrior's attire, not only for every day use (which shows it's a social aspect).

But a man wearing a dress (or obviously women's clothing), even if he's not trans, even if he's straight and married, people flip their shit. Why? Because it's a man wearing something that belongs to a woman. By wearing something that belongs to a woman, they are de-masculinizing themselves. And if it's accepted, what other men will 'put on a dress' and 'twist' the image of what man and manhood is?

At it's base, the whole issue of the hate for trans women is about masculinity, the view of it, and the status of what happens if masculine doesn't mean what people think?

Nevermind that high heeled shoes, make up and even dresses were worn by men hundreds of years ago because people then saw it a 'fashion' rather than a signature of gender.


If you say so. Apparently, for this condition of being a hermaphrodite, It doesn’t exist yet it is most common in the human population in the southern portion of Africa. Weirdly interesting.

Much like all roads lead to Rome, most searches of the term hermaphrodite lead to the modern term intersex….& some of the links don’t even mention the term hermaphrodite. Then, as far as a percentage of the human population, the percentages are all over the board with respect to the term intersex.

I think because the science of gender and learning gender and sex is becoming more a thing, the language has changed. Because the language has changed, some things are let go and other terms replace it. Like hermaphrodite, tranny, cis (though as I've said before, I understand the reason for it, but I don't use it myself).

And because the science is expanding, terms to include those who aren't the "typical" gender also have people freaking out. Stuff like


Exclusive Language
  • Breastfeeding
  • Grandfather, Grandmother
  • Father, Husband, Male Partner
  • Maternal
  • Mother, Mama
  • Motherhood/Fatherhood
  • Niece, Nephew
  • Pregnant Women
  • Postpartum Woman
  • Sister, Brother
Inclusive Language
  • Chestfeeding, Nursing, Lactation
  • Grandparents
  • Non-Pregnant, Non-Gestational Parent, Family Member, Support Person
  • Perinatal
  • Birthing Person, Laboring Person, Gestational Parent
  • Parenthood
  • Niblings
  • Pregnant People
  • Postpartum Parent
  • Siblings

The language isn't changed to somehow throw out the 'old words to spite straight people', but to be inclusive of people who don't fit the past meanings of them.

Not everyone who is a 'mother' is a woman, they could be non-binary, for example.

Trans men could breastfeed their infant if they've not done a breast removal.

It doesn't mean Joe Public has to use them, just in medical situations it's easier to use that just in case the patient is not a trans person, for instance.

At it's base, a lot of the language changes are about respect; and people are having a fit over the idea of needing to be respectful to people who do not fit their idea of what 'normal' is.

And then there's just assholes :D
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,564
8,279
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Holy hell, Isaac’s new haircut is a bit of a shocker. Enjoyed him as a comedian for years now!! “Peace in the Middle East & me dink stinks” being his signature closing line to most of his YouTube’s.
 
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Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
11,442
649
113
59
Alberta
I have a question for the types who insist (with a perplexing level of hysteria) that there are two, exactly two, and only two genders, and that every single human bean who ever lived is one of the two and absolutely not the other. . .

Have you ever heard of hermaphrodites?

What are they?
Yes, and Siamese twins, and little people, and Steve Buscemi.

All genetic detours from the norm.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
11,442
649
113
59
Alberta
This is basic logic. When you make the categorical statement "All the world is either A or B," a single example that is neither A nor B falsifies that statement.
Nobody is saying all the world is A or B? I don't look at it from a religious point of view; I look at it as we are a species like every other species; our general purpose is to eat and drink, pee and poop, have sex, and make babies. There's your A & B which is the majority of our species. Which, for the most part is the prime directive of all species on this planet. But when babies are made, some don't come out of the baby-making organ of pregnant people [were not allowed to call them women anymore] they don't always come out cookie-cutter to the majority.

Man, I can't count on two hands how many gay people I've met since I became active in the arts. I don't judge any of them. My bitch with this community is not how they feel or how they dress or identify. My problem starts when people say that I should feel a certain way about this, and if I disagree, I am a bigot. You can identify however you want, but biology says otherwise, so this is really a mental issue rather than a biological one. The same could be said of being gay. A & B are here to procreate, even if some deviate by mental state or by design. I don't judge people's sexual orientation because I don't care what people do in the privacy of their bedroom. My pushback is that a tiny minority is trying to completely undermine the construct of gender because of how they "feel." They aren't saying we are a new gender; they are saying they are one of the two genders, and well, they aren't; they just feel like they are. But wait! I just confused myself because a quick Google search revealed there are actually seven genders: agender, cisgender, genderfluid, genderqueer, intersex, gender nonconforming, and transgender. Disagreeing with that could get you arrested in some countries.