1500 Year Old Bible Claims Jesus Christ Was Not Crucified

[JLM]

Unless you are able to cite a credible source, Dex, this example you've provided is anecdotal at best.

NO, it's all in black and white in actuary charts and tables- nothing anecdotal about it! Do you think before you pop off? -

 

[Motar]

I did give you one example, that ought to count as at least a shred. What do you want, I should list all the products of science and technology in your life and how they impact it? You're asking for information that ought to be part of your fund of common knowledge.

If science is to be deified, Dex the supporting evidence must be commensurate with this claim to be convincing. Your original statement ascribes matchless benevolence, knowledge and power to science: "Science has relieved much human misery and suffering on a scope and scale, with a speed, yours could never match..." It sounds as if we have a new object of worship in our midst.

 

[gerryh]

If science is to be deified, Dex the supporting evidence must be commensurate with this claim to be convincing. Your original statement ascribes matchless benevolence, knowledge and power to science: "Science has relieved much human misery and suffering on a scope and scale, with a speed, yours could never match..." It sounds as if we have a new object of worship in our midst.

You won't get any where by twisting what Dex say's. He's not a simpleton.

 

[Cliffy]

If science is to be deified, Dex the supporting evidence must be commensurate with this claim to be convincing. Your original statement ascribes matchless benevolence, knowledge and power to science: "Science has relieved much human misery and suffering on a scope and scale, with a speed, yours could never match..." It sounds as if we have a new object of worship in our midst.

I doubt very much that Dex is deifying science. Science covers a lot of ground from medical, archaeological, chemical, etc. Science has been both a blessing and a curse: chemical, germ and nuclear weapons of mass destruction come to mind with many more examples. God has been equally as destructive as benevolent. The OT is full of murder, genocide and mayhem. I don't really think either side of this debate has very much credence. Science. like TV, had the possibility of being benevolent but in the hands of our psychopathic ruling class, and religious leaders, they have become more of a hindrance to human evolution, spiritual or otherwise.

 

[Motar]

If science is to be deified, Dex the supporting evidence must be commensurate with this claim to be convincing. Your original statement ascribes matchless benevolence, knowledge and power to science: "Science has relieved much human misery and suffering on a scope and scale, with a speed, yours could never match..." It sounds as if we have a new object of worship in our midst.

So, does the evidence support the claim? Is science our salvation?

 

[Motar]

So, does the evidence support the claim? Is science our salvation?

If so, from what does science save us? Even more puzzling is any need for salvation if mankind is indeed "evolving up".

 

[Cliffy]

If so, from what does science save us? Even more puzzling is any need for salvation if mankind is indeed "evolving up".

Seems to me that salvation is just a Christian concept. Nobody, not god or aliens are going to save us from ourselves. As the Hopi say, "We are the ones we have been waiting for." Science, along with greed and arrogance, has created the mess we are in. I doubt it will get us out of it. It may just be that humanity is destined to destroy itself because we don't seem to be able to stop screwing things up. Sorry Motar, but Jesus ain't coming to save anybody's sorry azz. And if aliens can travel this far to see us, they sure as hell have figured out that we ain't worth the effort. And with psychopaths running the world, I doubt we have much of a future.

 

[Cliffy]

 

[Dexter Sinister]

If science is to be deified, Dex the supporting evidence must be commensurate with this claim to be convincing. Your original statement ascribes matchless benevolence, knowledge and power to science: "Science has relieved much human misery and suffering on a scope and scale, with a speed, yours could never match..." It sounds as if we have a new object of worship in our midst.

I'm not deifying science, don't be stupid, I'm just saying its claims are testable and verifiable and its methods provably get results, and none of that is true of religion. You're extrapolating what I say out to ludicrous conclusions that suit your prejudices. This conversation between us is over, you're not really paying attention or thinking seriously about it.

 

[cj44]

Cliffy,
What do you mean when you say, "Science, along with greed and arrogance, has created the mess we are in."? Are not greed and arrogance sin?

 

[darkbeaver]

Cliffy,
What do you mean when you say, "Science, along with greed and arrogance, has created the mess we are in."? Are not greed and arrogance sin?

The mess we are in is matter and love of it is the only and original sin. CONDENSED FOR THE IMPATIENT

 

[cj44]

The mess we are in is matter and love of it is the only and original sin. CONDENSED FOR THE IMPATIENT

Beavs, Matter being flesh?

 

[Cliffy]

Cliffy,
What do you mean when you say, "Science, along with greed and arrogance, has created the mess we are in."? Are not greed and arrogance sin?

Greed and arrogance are just ignorance.

Science created plastic and many other chemical cocktails, billions of tons of which are choking our oceans and land. Oil pipelines, shipping buy land sea and air, automobiles, TVs..... the list is endless of the useless stuff we consider necessary for the "good life' while a billion or two people live in abject poverty and die of curable and preventable diseases world wide. We are killing this planet to maintain an unsustainable life style that has been sold to us by psychopaths of government and industry. And the media junky sheeple eat it up. West coast fish are radio active because of science so people can continue the "One Up On The Jones's" game.

 

[JLM]

Greed and arrogance are just ignorance.

Science created plastic and many other chemical cocktails, billions of tons of which are choking our oceans and land. Oil pipelines, shipping buy land sea and air, automobiles, TVs..... the list is endless of the useless stuff we consider necessary for the "good life' while a billion or two people live in abject poverty and die of curable and preventable diseases world wide. We are killing this planet to maintain an unsustainable life style that has been sold to us by psychopaths of government and industry. And the media junky sheeple eat it up. West coast fish are radio active because of science so people can continue the "One Up On The Jones's" game.

Is it plastic that is evil or is it just some of the uses? There is good and bad in everything, science can be a wonderful or it can be subversive.

 

[Motar]

I'm not deifying science, don't be stupid, I'm just saying its claims are testable and verifiable and its methods provably get results, and none of that is true of religion. You're extrapolating what I say out to ludicrous conclusions that suit your prejudices. This conversation between us is over, you're not really paying attention or thinking seriously about it.

The conversation ended, Dex when topic maintenance and supportive evidence gave way to argumentum ad hominem.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

No, it ended when it became obvious you don't know what you're talking about, deliberately misunderstood what I said, pretended not to know things you should, and twisted my words into straw men you could attack to score cheap debating points without ever coming to grips with the substance under discussion. I will enter into no further conversations with you.

 

[Motar]

No, it ended when it became obvious you don't know what you're talking about, deliberately misunderstood what I said, pretended not to know things you should, and twisted my words into straw men you could attack to score cheap debating points without ever coming to grips with the substance under discussion. I will enter into no further conversations with you.

The written record of our discussion is posted here, Dex. Conduct and content will have their influence. "Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear." (Mark 4:9 NIV)

 

[cj44]

Greed and arrogance are just ignorance.

Science created plastic and many other chemical cocktails, billions of tons of which are choking our oceans and land. Oil pipelines, shipping buy land sea and air, automobiles, TVs..... the list is endless of the useless stuff we consider necessary for the "good life' while a billion or two people live in abject poverty and die of curable and preventable diseases world wide. We are killing this planet to maintain an unsustainable life style that has been sold to us by psychopaths of government and industry. And the media junky sheeple eat it up. West coast fish are radio active because of science so people can continue the "One Up On The Jones's" game.

Science Good. Sinful, Littering, People Bad.


Without Science including plastics, our son would not be alive.


God's blessings come through way of science.

 

[Cliffy]

Science Good. Sinful, Littering, People Bad.


Without Science including plastics, our son would not be alive.


God's blessings come through way of science.

Like I said, science is both a blessing and a curse. Religion too. Everything has a Yin and a Yang.