Does God exist?
- Thread starter Kreskin
- Start date
No it isn't:
The crust is actually a bunch layers and pushes the total up to 12.
But even worse is that there are 8 layers in what you call the crust!!!
OMG!!! Satan did it!!!
No it isn't:
The crust is actually a bunch layers and pushes the total up to 12.
But even worse is that there are 8 layers in what you call the crust!!!
OMG!!! Satan did it!!!
the photo you're give it , for clod ,
his differ of locus to another ,
that not motif we write for it ,
we write for earth layers ,
not clod layers ,
Nice pictures and everything but since they do not come from the Qur'an how are they to be applied to what the book says. Doesn't the book supply any way to identify what those layers are?
I'll stay out of this for the most part because the Bible doesn't cover it other than to put our atmosphere as belonging to Heaven rather than the earth. Ge:1:8-20 should fully explain the boundary between heaven and Earth.
Dex says there is one Heaven (an earlier post) but what is that based on, it can't be based on the Bible because it indicates that there are 3 Heavens. Two are covered in Ge:1
On the same page as this post (14) I asked a question in relation to this thought, basically, "Which of the above would you hang Him for first? ", care to answer that question in relation to the rest of the post. I would think anyone with an aversion to the 'God of the OT' would be jumping all over this one.
I'll stay out of this for the most part because the Bible doesn't cover it other than to put our atmosphere as belonging to Heaven rather than the earth. Ge:1:8-20 should fully explain the boundary between heaven and Earth.
Dex says there is one Heaven (an earlier post) but what is that based on, it can't be based on the Bible because it indicates that there are 3 Heavens. Two are covered in Ge:1
Any God or Allah who kills breaking his own rules doesn't know best. Sounds like a politician, say one thing and do another.
You call that good? I call that evil!
On the same page as this post (14) I asked a question in relation to this thought, basically, "Which of the above would you hang Him for first? ", care to answer that question in relation to the rest of the post. I would think anyone with an aversion to the 'God of the OT' would be jumping all over this one.
We as humans can try to explain "ITt" but if we could ..We would be Gods!...There are 4 forces...Things seemed to be governed by laws....Although darwinism can not be disproved!.....We were blessed with knowledge and wisdom ..Tapped into an energy bigger than ourselves ...Evolved into a body that allows us to make tools that will create our predicessors!.....There is what we are.....What we will create ...What iTt really is...All part of the same whole!
It is no where near equal, when God kills it is millions of times worse. The vast majority of people on this planet look up to God, worship him and his ways. They want to do Gods work, if God kills those who are evil then this is part of his work. Do you not see that man is killing those that they believe are evil just as God did. This has the potential to destroy our world.
This is a perfect example of how your words contradict themselves. You say what man kills stays dead, if God can bring back a life he has taken then he can just as easily bring back a life that a man has taken. Just because a man killed a man doesn't mean that man stays anymore dead then a man that God has killed.
Even though this is irrelevant to my point that God has influenced much of the killing that man does, it seems to me that the people God killed could possible be alive today if he never put the mechanism to take life and he never killed them.
Satan is another concept I believe is totally illogical and no doubt would be another evil act of God if it was true. Many people believe mankind is still in its infancy. Many people refer to God as our father. What good parent do you know that would leave their children with an evil person. Any parent that would knowingly do such a thing would end up in jail for along time. We don't kick our children out of the house because they disobey us, we teach them right from wrong help guide them to be better people. Not to mention God put this forbidden fruit in the center of the garden and said don't eat it. I think most people would agree that when we tell someone not to do something that makes them want to do it even more.
I really don't believe I want this script to be followed at all. This script has way to much suffering in it, way to much violence, way to much death. Seems to me he has turned his back on good and on us. If he is our father then he should be helping to prevent our suffering not seek vengeance on us.
His law/word is contradictory, do as I say and not as I do just doesn't cut it never has and never will. If he tells us not to kill and then turns around and kills, his words go on deaf ears and his actions speak very loud. I'm really not bitching at anyone, I'm just stating facts as I see them and trying to do it in a very kind way. I admit comparing God to a politician was not the kindest way to express my point of view.
I do not wish to hang him for any reason. I don't believe in violence in anyway for any reason. I don't even wish him any ill will. I don't wish anyone one any ill will. I wish everyone the greatest happiness
In order to have the greatest happiness one needs to not make others suffer for any reason. Plus I don't believe it is logical that God exists, so you thinking I want to hang him makes no sense.
I don't mean to hound you on this, but you seem to be missing some key points about what the Bible covers.
1) If the sentence for eating is death (for Adam and Eve and all their children) how does God accomplish that without taking back the breath of life?
When God kills somebody it is about as serious as us sending one of our own children to his room for a short time-out. It is quite a different matter if we take a life, any life. Time and time again the Bible states quite clearly that vengeance belongs to God alone. We cannot kill and still be loyal to God. The best/worst we can do is stay away from them. Governments have the authority to carry a sword and use it, in a limited fashion, pass that limit and rewards will be taken away in place of punishment.
Give me some NT verses that say we can kill for Christ. To do that we would have to judge somebody deserving that, we are not allowed to be judges, probably for more than one reason.
Jas:2:8:
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself,
ye do well:
Jas:2:9:
But if ye have respect to persons,
ye commit sin,
and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas:2:10:
For whosoever shall keep the whole law,
and yet offend in one point,
he is guilty of all.
Jas:2:11:
For he that said,
Do not commit adultery,
said also,
Do not kill.
Now if thou commit no adultery,
yet if thou kill,
thou art become a transgressor of the law.
God does just that, by the end of Judgment Day everybody that has ever drawn breath has been brought back to life. When death and hell are thrown into the Lake they are empty. All men are standing before Lord God Almighty, some have been there longer than others. God determined that all men would die once, sending someone there before their time is not within our rights. If we steal we can redeem ourselves by asking for forgiveness, to acheive total forgiveness means giving something back, double what we stole. Now what man can do anything like that for somebody who he has killed.
Even the Holy Angels that come back at Christ's second coming do not kill anybody, they gather the wicked of the living and then Christ alone (the one Judge) takes their life. That part lasts for a few hours minimum, a full day maximum.
What was the world like before this God made His announced appearance, say about the beginning of an exodus to a promised land? Any traces of murder or other sins? Was Egypt a benign ruler over all people?
There would not be any people alive that are several thousand years old, they would have died the same way all their relatives did.
Satan became evil after coming into the Garden, he was not evil and then God put him in the Garden, can you spot the difference?
Think of it as somebody stealing one or more of your children, and the Bible kind of explains what God goes through to get all the children back. Same as any parent would do, except with God it is a sure thing. That doesn't mean He breaks any of His own rules to accomplish that. Have you told your children not to touch the hot stove in the hopes that is what they would do? It is still wise to have something to treat burns around because everybody suffers a burn of some sort sooner or later.
Right and wrong still have to be defined. This would be a rather long subject all on it's own.
All that is already with us, do you want the death of 26,000 children a day from starvation to continue? What comes is the end of all those things, not saying they go out peaceably nor does Christ arrive peaceably but at least the ones that He kills are those that have been committing those things on others..
His law/word is contradictory, do as I say and not as I do just doesn't cut it never has and never will. If he tells us not to kill and then turns around and kills, his words go on deaf ears and his actions speak very loud. I'm really not bitching at anyone, I'm just stating facts as I see them and trying to do it in a very kind way. I admit comparing God to a politician was not the kindest way to express my point of view.
If Israel was breaking His commandments was He wrong to sent them into exile? He had spelled out quite clearly what was 'required of them' for His continued protection, when they stopped He let Neb take them to Babylon.
You certainly aren't very impressed with Him either, you might not be with Christ at His second coming, depending on how it touches your life. There are a lot of people who have lived, are living, and will yet live that do not care about your nonviolence status, if you are in their way and they believe in violence as a means to get what they want you will die. You want that way of life to continue?I do not wish to hang him for any reason. I don't believe in violence in anyway for any reason. I don't even wish him any ill will. I don't wish anyone one any ill will. I wish everyone the greatest happiness
It matters not that you do not believe, but that should not let that stop you from gaining some knowledge about what you are rejecting. You see the grave as the last resting place, I see it as a place where the doors swing both ways, but only at God's request.
If you spend any amount of time pondering this, your logic and reason tell you it's not true. Obviously.
It's true that science can't prove metaphysics ie. - there is a mind other than my own.
The statement "I think. Therefore I am"( I exist) is totally true.
It's very interesting that you said that. Obviously the big question in life is "Why is there something, rather than nothing?" And that's easy to answer if you believe in God. But for an atheist, this proves to be tough. Either something caused something, or nothing caused something. Only one seems rational to me. The above quote shows you would be more likely to believe we live in the matrix than there being a supreme being in the universe. I curious to why. I know people hate God, or hate the idea of one, maybe cuz of all the awful things people do in the name of God. I can understand that. :smile:
Different meaning of the word. The heavens is simply a common way to refer to what we see in the night sky, and there`s obviously only one of those; that`s all I meant. In the sense you mean it, there`s no good reason to think there`s even one Heaven, the available evidence doesn`t sustain such a claim.
I don`t see why that would confuse you. The atmosphere is part of the planet, it would not be inhabitable without it. Your claim that the planet has precisely 7 layers as you say the Quran anticipated is entirely arbitrary, you could have justified the same claim if the Quran had said the planet has anywhere between three and well over a dozen layers. You still have nothing but BS on your side.
Not really. If there were nothing, we wouldn't be here to ponder why there's something rather than nothing; to me that argument amounts to saying if things were different then things would be different; I don't see the point of it. Besides, physics strongly suggests that "nothing" is not stable, "something" is the more natural state.
This is my third official post for my case in favour of intelligent design.
I'm going to keep plugging along here, post by post. There are several conversations going on in this thread, so I'll just state my case, point by point, and then write a short conclusion/summary. First of all, I can't stress enough, how much I do not represent ahmadabdalrhman, no affiliation whatsoever! I've read what he's been posting, let's just say --Wow! totally weak! I seriously think we should all ignore this guy so he goes away!
Backup point to the big bang #2. Radiation from the Big Bang
1965: Astronomers Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson detect strange radiation on their antenna at Bell Labs in NJ. No matter where they turn the antenna, this mysterious radiation remained, coming from all directions. What they discovered was turned out to be one of the most incredible discoveries ever. One that would win them nobel prizes. They had discovered the afteglow from the Big Bang explosion!!! Technically known as cosmic background radiation, this afterglow is actually light and heat from the initial explosion. This light is no longer visible cuz its wavelength has been stretched by the expanding universe to wavelengths slightly shorter than microwaves. But the heat can still be detected. As early as 1948, scientists had predicted that this radiation would be out there if the big bang actually did occur.
Backup Point # 3 -- Ripples
After the discovery of the radiation, scientists focused their attention on another earlier prediction: If the big bang occured there should be slight variations(or ripples) in the temperature of the cosmic background radiation. 1989: Nasa lauches a satellite called COBE(Cosmic Background Explorer). COBE not only found the ripples, but scientist were amazed at their precision!!! The ripples showed that the explosion and expansion of the universe was precisely tweaked to cause just enough enough matter to congregate to allow galaxy formation, but not enough to cause the universe to collapse back on itself. Any slight variation and none of us would be here. Also COBE actually took infared pics of the ripples.
Well, I got gotta go for now,:smile: there is a lot more I want to touch up on. Some real exciting stuff! Remember what I said about Knucklehead. (ahmadabdalrhman)
I'm going to keep plugging along here, post by post. There are several conversations going on in this thread, so I'll just state my case, point by point, and then write a short conclusion/summary. First of all, I can't stress enough, how much I do not represent ahmadabdalrhman, no affiliation whatsoever! I've read what he's been posting, let's just say --Wow! totally weak! I seriously think we should all ignore this guy so he goes away!
Backup point to the big bang #2. Radiation from the Big Bang
1965: Astronomers Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson detect strange radiation on their antenna at Bell Labs in NJ. No matter where they turn the antenna, this mysterious radiation remained, coming from all directions. What they discovered was turned out to be one of the most incredible discoveries ever. One that would win them nobel prizes. They had discovered the afteglow from the Big Bang explosion!!! Technically known as cosmic background radiation, this afterglow is actually light and heat from the initial explosion. This light is no longer visible cuz its wavelength has been stretched by the expanding universe to wavelengths slightly shorter than microwaves. But the heat can still be detected. As early as 1948, scientists had predicted that this radiation would be out there if the big bang actually did occur.
Backup Point # 3 -- Ripples
After the discovery of the radiation, scientists focused their attention on another earlier prediction: If the big bang occured there should be slight variations(or ripples) in the temperature of the cosmic background radiation. 1989: Nasa lauches a satellite called COBE(Cosmic Background Explorer). COBE not only found the ripples, but scientist were amazed at their precision!!! The ripples showed that the explosion and expansion of the universe was precisely tweaked to cause just enough enough matter to congregate to allow galaxy formation, but not enough to cause the universe to collapse back on itself. Any slight variation and none of us would be here. Also COBE actually took infared pics of the ripples.
Well, I got gotta go for now,:smile: there is a lot more I want to touch up on. Some real exciting stuff! Remember what I said about Knucklehead. (ahmadabdalrhman)
Careful there my friend, you've barely begun to make your case and already you're sneaking over into begging the question.
Sorry, but with all respect, I don't think you have a strong point here. If your acknowledging "something" --i.e. "we are all here, we all exist, the universe exists" and it's commonly believed from both sides of the debate that all time, space, matter came in existence, then what caused "something?" (All effects have a cause) Could this cause not be a supreme being? :smile:
So what caused the supreme being?
If your answer is that this god has always been there, then an equally valid argument exists in the assertion that the universe was not caused, and has also always been here.
If you have no answer as to the cause of the designer, then you have no valid argument that a designer exists.
LOL, you really should get a handle on what you are running down.
Follow along, Christ is the begotten Son (one and only) of God. Just how hard is it to come up with this question. If Jesus is begotten then was God also begotten? Time for us is about events since our universe existed, big bang, first star, take your pick. If material was gathered then there was most likely a period where is was not yet gathered. We measure time from when an expansion began, the period that it took to gather enough material so there could be an expansion is not considered as 'time' or that it even exists..
Intelligent design can be seen in patterns, if something works for one thing it could also be used in other places.
God used a particular style of writing when He wrote Ge: 1 & 2. If that same style is used in other parts of the Bible (a parable where just the characters change) is that intelligence? The same style should point to one author at the same time.
Daniel and Revelation share some similarities as well, they start with a greeting from (the speaker to the reader), the speaker says he has been given a message to deliver to you that originates with God.
They both then give a summary of the message followed by greater detail is subsequent chapters. They also say a little bit about after that particular event is over.
Can that be called a pattern, to be really effective the more examples the better?
God also has messages for both the physical world and the spiritual world, Ge:1 covers the physical part of creation, Ge:2 covers the spiritual part (man and God together and the things they talked about).
Is there a certain amount of progression with Christ?
If you read the description in Re:1 and then read the last part of Proverbs:8 the two pictures don't mesh with how we raise our 'begotten children' they start out small (sitting on our knees while we say thing like "Watch this!",and by the time they are 120 (lets pretend they know a lot of things by this time)they should be mirror images of (the parents).
Once Christ looks like He does in Re:1 He stays that way, a mature 'begotten Son' who has seen His God do everything that will be shown. Lord God Almighty looks quite similar, there is nothing to say how far back that 'tree' actually goes. If God's father made the 'multi-verse', then God made our universe and our earth. Christ would then have made the worlds that are in God' universe.
Does the multi-verse belong to something even larger?
God made man in His image and His likeness, those are two different 'items', image is the physical appearance, likeness is we operate in a similar fashion. Originally we were given dominion over a living earth, God has dominion over everything He created.
(just for the record, God talking to the Holy Spirit is enough to qualify for the 'we' in those verses. Adam and Eve are two, God and the Holy Spirit are two, Christ (the Son) is not part of husband and wife. His marriage comes after the earth belongs to the kingdom of heaven again)
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Indeed it is, and far more intelligence than you're able to muster it seems...
The bible was written by at least 40 different people (conservative estimate)...not by god...and just like any story the writing style is indicative of the period and preference of the author...
Until you concede this point, there can be no further discussion, as I'm ready to write you off as a lunatic already...
None of this is relevant, and my question remains unanswered...