9/11 mysteries,7 years later

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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So you are saying that not only did GWB's operatives rig up the building with explosives,they also encased the explosives with asbestos. Hmmm,that sounds about WRONG.A controlled demolition is wired together,hence the controlled part. So the explosives and all the wiring was made flame resistant also? And it would have to be airtight asbestos also,wow,GB and his frigging space aliens were good. Next please?

Hello Wally g'day to ya, hope your boils are settling down nicely. Control can also be wireless. Many explosives are not not set of by flame.Many explosives are oxygen entrained. thankyou for your time and consideration, may dog be with you in your time of tribulations.:smile:
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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What I find interesting is the total lack of any 'insiders' talking to the public. How could so many insiders be kept quiet for this long? People are people, and there hasn't been a conspiracy yet where people haven't talked.Oh well. Some people need to believe in religion; some need to believe in conspiracy theories. It's all the same need. As long as you're happy, I don't care what you believe about 9/11, and I don't care what church you go to.

There are at least two ways to keep people silent, one is bribery one is blackmail one is death, there are at least three ways to keep people silent. There probubly wern't that many insiders anyway, less than a hundred maybe.
 

Scott Free

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May 9, 2007
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I have a serious logic fault????

Absolutely! Your argument is that because you don't like the man his arguments are discredited.

The problem is that his argument doesn't depend on you liking him or not. So entering your opinion of him as evidence is irrelevant and not really an argument at all but a plea to popular opinion, in that, you hope other people won't like him either and like you, turn away from his argument because of that. The reality though is that his arguments don't depend on your liking him - it doesn't matter what you think. Your holding your opinion of Alex Jones as relevant to dispute what he says and it isn't. Your opinion doesn't matter in the least and you have proved nothing. The fault is that your holding your opinion of the man as evidence when it clearly isn't.
 
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MHz

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That was an assault. He was impeding her movements,which in Canada is an assault. Yelling in a person's face is an assault. I am not a liar,but you are definetly an idiot.
Only in Canada you say, well that was filmed in the US. If he was impeding her then her body-guards were doing a lousy job, as I recall there was physical contact between one of those and somebody (not sure if it was Alex or not) that was an actual physical assault. (and really you do not attempt to define that he was using words but leave it open to speculation that it could have been a physical attack, that makes you a total liar (deceiver) and a fuktard as well). And really why would an upstanding person such as she is need a body-guard in the first place?

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/assault
The act required for an assault must be overt. Although words alone are insufficient, they might create an assault when coupled with some action that indicates the ability to carry out the threat. A mere threat to harm is not an assault; however, a threat combined with a raised fist might be sufficient if it causes a reasonable apprehension of harm in the victim.
Intent is an essential element of assault. In tort law, it can be specific intent—if the assailant intends to cause the apprehension of harmful or offensive contact in the victim—or general intent—if he or she intends to do the act that causes such apprehension. In addition, the intent element is satisfied if it is substantially certain, to a reasonable person, that the act will cause the result. A defendant who holds a gun to a victim's head possesses the requisite intent, since it is substantially certain that this act will produce an apprehension in the victim. In all cases, intent to kill or harm is irrelevant.
In criminal law, the attempted battery type of assault requires a Specific Intent to commit battery. An intent to frighten will not suffice for this form of assault.
There can be no assault if the act does not produce a true apprehension of harm in the victim. There must be a reasonable fear of injury. The usual test applied is whether the act would induce such apprehension in the mind of a reasonable person. The status of the victim is taken into account. A threat made to a child might be sufficient to constitute an assault, while an identical threat made to an adult might not.
Virtually all jurisdictions agree that the victim must be aware of the danger. This element is not required, however, for the attempted battery type of assault. A defendant who throws a rock at a sleeping victim can only be guilty of the attempted battery assault, since the victim would not be aware of the possible harm.
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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Wally, I would have to respectfully disagree.

No matter what the law says, to me no assault happens without physical force applied.
 

mabudon

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Mar 15, 2006
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On reading a bit about C-4 it says that only extreme heat coupled with intense pressure will detonate it without an actual detonator. I would imagine you could throw a nuclear warhead into a volcano and it would melt (not that I'm implying any nuclear agent here, just suggesting that not all things that explode will explode under the same circumstances)

Anyone who thinks that everything explosive will detonate in the mere presence of fire is foolish at least

Try and light sodium on fire, it would be difficult to say the least, but toss a chunk of it into a pond and look the hell out
 

hermanntrude

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Jun 23, 2006
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this thread is very interesting to me, since it's short enough to read in less than a week and actually contains some serious attempts to understand reality. I'd like to summarise it:

1) it has been suggested that the standard "truther" theory of a controlled demolition of WTC 7 is impossible due to the apparently mutually exclusive observances that the building was on fire for 6 hours AND contained explosives. Evidence has been forwarded that these observations need not be mutually exclusive.

2) certain irrelavent issues about people's personalities and possible assaults have been introduced, which are clouding the issue somewhat.
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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Can everyone agree upon the evidence that the back side of WTC 7 was damaged due to the collapse of one of the the towers?
 

EagleSmack

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mix diesel and nitrogen.....put a match to it and nothing happens......put a detinator charge to it and it goes ....booom

This is the type of rigged explosive used to bring down the Murrow Bldg. However it was mixed then placed in a rented truck, barrels and barrels of the stuff. One BIG bomb. I am not sure if it would have been useful in bringing down WTC in such a manner as the Murrow Bldg was surely not a controlled demolition.
 

Avro

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There are at least two ways to keep people silent, one is bribery one is blackmail one is death, there are at least three ways to keep people silent. There probubly wern't that many insiders anyway, less than a hundred maybe.

Oh yeah, the whole thing went down with fewer than a hundred people that could all be bribed, blackmailed and threatened with death.:roll:

Seriously, are you a complete and utter loser?

Seems to me all conspiracy theories have no witnesses or whistle blowers except for a handful of liars out to make a buck to feed the weak minds of those who reside in their Moms basement.:lol:
 

lone wolf

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Nov 25, 2006
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This is the type of rigged explosive used to bring down the Murrow Bldg. However it was mixed then placed in a rented truck, barrels and barrels of the stuff. One BIG bomb. I am not sure if it would have been useful in bringing down WTC in such a manner as the Murrow Bldg was surely not a controlled demolition.

You ought to see what Minnie Pearl (a slurry of ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel) does to a beaver dam - just twenty-five rake handles worth!

Murrow Bldg was a concussive blast. A confined blast doesn't have to push air out of the way to do its work.
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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Oh yeah, the whole thing went down with fewer than a hundred people that could all be bribed, blackmailed and threatened with death.:roll:

Seriously, are you a complete and utter loser?

Seems to me all conspiracy theories have no witnesses or whistle blowers except for a handful of liars out to make a buck to feed the weak minds of those who reside in their Moms basement.:lol:

It's not an unlikely event at all Avro, in fact it's quite common to fool people into believeing the most insane propositions take for instance the baby jesus thing which has been going on for two-thousand years with no shortage of rubes dupes and rubber men signing up by the millions. What I'm saying is those that run the blue ball know full well that most empty windbags like yourself haven't got the wit to think about propabilitys or who benifits, but will believe that Arab terrorists can subvert and suspend air superiority over the most heavily gaurded landmass on the planet in addittion to four highjackings and the impossible flying and the coincidental unprecedented collapse of three not one but three buildings in the same city block within hours of each other, now that's miraculous. Avro and you sir are a simpleton and that is amply indicated in these threads. Further to that ,**** off.:lol:
 

quandary121

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[SIZE=+2]Building 7, the Untold Story

The collapses of the Twin Towers in Manhattan on September 11th are known to almost everyone.
The total collapse of a third skyscraper that day remains virtually unknown.
WTC Building 7, a 47-story steel skyscraper, plunged into its footprint at 5:20 PM.
Slick science TV programs "explained" the collapses of the Twin Towers.
Building 7's collapse, so far, has required no such PR campaign.
[/SIZE]
The Vertical Collapse of Building 7

Building 7 fell with a smooth vertical motion.
The collapse was complete in 6.5 seconds.
Free-fall time from Building 7's roof is 5.96 seconds.

Building 7 Imploded

The exterior walls of Building 7 were pulled toward its central axis.
They ended up on the top of the rubble pile.

The Tidy Pile of Rubble

The 47-story tower was converted into a pile of rubble lying almost entirely within its footprint.
The rubble pile was less than 2 stories high.
The fall visibly damaged only one adjacent building.

Taking a building down into its footprint is the objective of controlled demolition.
It does not happen by luck or accident.
Where Was Building 7?

Building 7 had a World Trade Center address but:
  • Was on different block from the other 6 WTC buildings.
  • Was of a different age and architecture than the WTC.
  • Was 300' from the nearest tower.
Building 7 was the only building outside the WTC complex to collapse.
Building 7 was farther from the Towers than the Banker's Trust Building.
Was Building 7 Crushed by the Towers?

Damage to Building 6 shows that the heavy fallout from the North Tower didn't cross Vesey Street.



The Supposed Cause of Building 7's Collapse

The total collapse of Building 7 is officially blamed on fires.
This would be the first case in history in which fires alone were blamed for the total destruction of a steel-framed high-rise.
The fires in Building 7 were not severe:
  • Limited to isolated regions of 2 floors
  • No broken glass on north side
  • Puny compared to other building fires

Anything But an Investigation

FEMA was entrusted to investigate the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings. It did so with a mere $600,000.
FEMA functioned to make sure that there was no real investigation.
FEMA assembled a volunteer team of investigators.
They were not allowed access to Ground Zero.
They could not figure out what made Building 7 collapse:
The specifics of the fires in WTC 7 and how they caused the building to collapse remain unknown at this time. ... Further research, investigation, and analyses are needed to resolve this issue.
Destruction of Evidence

The structural steel was key to any real investigation.
It was removed from the site and shipped to India and China.
Few pieces were ever inspected.
There was no excuse for the rapid undocumented excavation of the site:
- No victims were believed buried there.
- Adjacent roads could be cleared without disturbing it.


What Caused Building 7's Collapse?

Building 7 was 5 times as tall as deep.
To bring this building down into its footprint required that all 58 perimeter columns and 25 core columns be destroyed simultaneously.
Any asymmetry in damage would cause asymmetric collapse:
the building would topple.
No combination of rubble impact damage, fires, or fuel tank explosions could have destroyed all columns simultaneously, as required to cause a vertical collapse.
Only controlled demolitions have achieved vertical collapses of upright steel structures.
Evidence of Explosives

Not only did Building 7 fall as if shattered by controlled demolition; it emitted smoke like other buildings being demolished.
The dusty smoke emerged across the north facade, in areas not affected by fire.
Some pieces of steel showed rapid oxidation, intergranular melting, and sulfur residues.
[SIZE=+2]Giuliani's Secret Command Center

23rd floor of building was a bunker housing Giuliani's Emergency Command Center. It had:
  • Bullet- and bomb-resistant windows
  • Independent, secure air and water supply
  • Ability to withstand winds of 160 MPH
Another tenant was the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC).
The collapse of Building 7 destroyed thousands of SEC case files, on companies such as WorldCom.

[/SIZE]
 

Scott Free

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I have seen photos someone posted in a different forum that they had taken themselves. They were there during the horror and had presence of mind to snap some pics. I was amazed at how damaged that building was but It wasn't IMO damaged enough for a full collapse like we saw. Also it seems very odd that BBC would report the collapse a full 20 minutes, complete with an explanation that didn't change even after the building did really collapse. It is highly unlikely that the reporter came up with the explanation herself and most probable that she got it from some government source. This would suggest some explanation had been prepared before the building collapsed which in turn suggests some prior knowledge.
 

quandary121

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Can everyone agree upon the evidence that the back side of WTC 7 was damaged due to the collapse of one of the the towers?

No i don't agree that this was the case,i don't know where you get your evidence from but it is clearly wrong,like i posted before

Building 7 was farther from the Towers than the Banker's Trust Building.
Was Building 7 Crushed by the Towers?

Damage to Building 6 shows that the heavy fallout from the North Tower didn't cross Vesey Street.

you have not got the right building you must be thinking of building 6
 

quandary121

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In many ways, 7 World Trade Center, built and owned by Silverstein Properties, was structurally similar to its towering cousins across Vesey Street to the south. The weight of the building was supported by a relatively tight cluster of steel columns around the center of each floor and a palisade of columns around the outside, in the building's facade.

Sprayed on the steel, almost like imitation snow in holiday decorations, was a layer of fireproofing material, generally less than an inch thick. Although the fireproofing was intended to withstand ordinary fires for at least two hours, experts said buildings the size of 7 World Trade Center that are treated with such coatings have never collapsed in a fire of any duration.

http://nogw.com/documents/0927200307NYTimes7WTCwhy_page.htm

said buildings the size of 7 World Trade Center that are treated with such coatings have never collapsed in a fire of any duration
 

quandary121

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1) The persistence of fires at Ground Zero - As has been extensively reported, the rubble at Ground Zero continued to burn for months after 9/11, despite rain as well as firefighters’ use of large quantities of water and of the chemical fire suppressant Pyrocool. [New York Times, 11/19/2001] There is also eyewitness and photographic evidence of molten metal (see September 12, 2001-February 2002) and of explosions accompanied by white dust clouds. The book Aftermath: World Trade Center Archive by photographer Joel Meyerowitz shows a picture of such an explosion taking place on November 8, 2001. [Meyerowitz, 2006, pp. 178]
2) Spikes of certain chemicals in the air - EPA data shows that several spikes of chemical products of combustion, called volatile organic chemicals (VOC), occurred in October and November 2001, and in February 2002. According to the authors, these spikes indicate “abrupt, violent fires”.
3) The presence of 1,3-diphenylpropane - A third anomaly was the presence of large quantities of 1,3-diphenylpropane (1,3-DPP) in the air, a chemical that had not been found in previous structure fires. An EPA scientist told Newsday: “We’ve never observed it in any sampling we’ve ever done.” [Newsday, 9/14/2003]
 

quandary121

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A possible explanation would be the presence of novel “energetic nanocomposites” which include 1,3-DPP, according to scientific articles reviewed by Ryan et al. Such materials are “amenable to spray-on applications.” A 2002 report says, “The energetic coating dries to give a nice adherent film. Preliminary experiments indicate that films of the hybrid material are self-propagating when ignited by thermal stimulus.” [Ryan, Gourley, and Jones, 8/4/2008] The main center for nanocomposites research is Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LLNL). An October 2000 article in a LLNL publication provides an introduction to the research conducted there: “Energetic nanocomposites have a fuel component and an oxidizer component mixed together. […] In one such material (termed a thermite pyrotechnic), iron oxide gel reacts with metallic aluminum particles to release an enormous amount of heat. ‘These reactions typically produce temperatures in excess of 3,500 degrees Celsius’ says [LLNL researcher Randy] Simpson.” [Science & Technology Review, 10/2000] The authors conclude that “[t]he presence of energetic materials, specifically energetic nanocomposites, at [Ground Zero], has the potential to explain much of the unusual environmental data seen at the WTC. Thermite […] is such a pyrotechnic mixture that cannot be easily extinguished and is a common component of energetic nanocomposites.… [T]he detection of 1,3-DPP at the WTC supports this hypothesis. Finally, the spikes in VOCs, detected by EPA on specific dates, are more readily explained as a result of short-lived, violent fires caused by energetic materials.” [Ryan, Gourley, and Jones, 8/4/2008]Entity Tags: Environmental Protection Agency, James R. Gourley, Steven E. Jones, Kevin Ryan
Timeline Tags: Complete 911 Timeline