The rights of the Unborn still a "hot potato"!

[karrie]

Let's go a step further then, shall we? If you believe a fetus is "Human Life" then what is your reasoning for a fetus not having human rights? You can't have it both ways unless you explain yourself logically..... which I have yet to hear.

Okay, I'll try to explain as clearly as I can my understanding of the law in regards to what you're saying here.

Canadian law does not deny a fetus any human rights. It is granted medical and physical protection, so long as its rights don't interfere with its mother's human rights. No individual's human rights are to be had at the expense of another's. As such, Canadian law defines an unwanted pregnancy as a violation of a mother's right to liberty and security of person, and grants her the right to choose what to do about it.

This doesn't declare a fetus as unhuman in any way. It doesn't strip it of any human rights. It merely states that the rights of a fetus don't come at the expense of the rights of the mother.

 

[Tonington]

Nope.... It is humanoid... but not "Human Life" Once again, if anything, it is just the potiential of human life. Whether or not you want to take that potiential and skip a few steps to call it life, is up to you, but it'd still be wrong.

It is a living organism, not potentially living. End of story

Once you start calling it "Life" then you open the door to the rights, which is why I direct it to you as if you are claiming it should have rights, because that's what the whole "Pro-Life" argument balances on in the first place.

And not at all what I've been saying. So, moving on...

No, it's the potiential of human life,

All right, enough of this. Pony up and give your definition of what life is. Let's see if it meets muster. The rest of your junk depends entirely on how you define life, and how you differentiate one organism from another. So have at 'er. Lay it all out.

I doubt you can do it, considering you moved goal posts twice now in the same argument.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

So ... are you advocating that someone who you judge as unfit should have their kids taken? We know better off kids are never left alone to entertain themselves while mommy and daddy are both out earning an income (ever heard the term "latchkey kids"?) It's just the poor kids who do drugs and steal and ... Get real! A kid of 14 doesn't need a babysitter when he/she gets home from school and the parents still have two or three hours until quitting time. A kid of 14 can get into a hell of a pile of trouble in those two or three hours ... and they're NOT abandoned.

I figured out your point. On the end of something so narrow, it's not that difficult. Now ... what has it to to with the rights of the Unborn?

:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll: what???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????ye..................

 

[karrie]

Soc, your argument is ridiculous on a few different levels.

1. being pro-life doesn't make someone not care about abandoned children. I know plenty of pro-life families who are very involved in the child welfare system, right down to fostering and adopting children who need homes.

2. the fact that children are abandoned doesn't necessarily mean a mother would have aborted instead.

3. you have no right to decide that just because someone's life doesn't fit YOUR standard, that they would have been better off aborted.

 

[Risus]

Man LW, you are comparing butterflies with bats. We are not talking about reach peoples kids we are talking about abandoned kids……………………….because the young mother is not fit to look after a mistake pregnancy, some of you are so egger to shove your point of view into other peoples brains. You know this is a f ucked up world we live in . The wrong that goes unreported on kids who from day one were out in the cold no one is talking about it here…You are trying to figure out my point????? Come on man…………

First, how do you know the pregnancy was a mistake??? Second, maybe the world is screwed up because some people have warped ideas (and I won't mention any names ;-))

 

[Socrates the Greek]

First, how do you know the pregnancy was a mistake??? Second, maybe the world is screwed up because some people have warped ideas (and I won't mention any names ;-))

Hey Risus, now you feel better?

 

[lone wolf]

:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll: what???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????ye..................

Sorry ... is your narrow aligned vertical or horizontal (that means up an' down or sideways)

Don't hijack this thread ... start one about kids you see as abandoned.

 

[darkbeaver]

Only problem is, if the religious groups are willing to cross the border to demonstrate at a funeral for a beheaded young man you can only imagine the lengths they would go for abortion tourism.

No problem Kreskin, the clubbing and tazering of protestors would just be an added draw man.I think Durkas got a winner.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Soc, your argument is ridiculous on a few different levels.

1. being pro-life doesn't make someone not care about abandoned children. I know plenty of pro-life families who are very involved in the child welfare system, right down to fostering and adopting children who need homes.

2. the fact that children are abandoned doesn't necessarily mean a mother would have aborted instead.

3. you have no right to decide that just because someone's life doesn't fit YOUR standard, that they would have been better off aborted.

Karrie. On your points

• Prolifers may work on good humanitarian causes such as the abandonment of life to foster the necessary chilled welfare environment for some of the unwanted children but, scores are sleeping on the streets with no place to go. Plus a child with no parents is a soul barely able to look after him or her self’s mentally being that they are constantly reminded of how much of a cruel and cold start they had. So, all the work the good profilers do the bucket is still leaking badly……….

• On the fact that children are abandoned doesn’t mean that a mother would have aborted instead????? What is that mean???? IF that mother was not fit for that pregnancy then aborting would have prevented abandonment………………

• I don’t wake up in the morning worrying if other people’s life’s are up to my standards, but it pisses me off completely to see the wrong committed on unwanted kids such as kids who have committed suicide because no one was there to guide them and care for them, and you can be sure that the number of kids who have killed them self’s who had no parents at the age of 14- 15 by far is not one or two isolated cases.

Pro choice is pro choice and if it doesn’t fit your standard THAN YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE A PROBLEM UNDERSTANDING THE DEFINITION BETWEEN THE TWO…………..

 

[karrie]

Karrie. On your points

• Prolifers may work on good humanitarian causes such as the abandonment of life to foster the necessary chilled welfare environment for some of the unwanted children but, scores are sleeping on the streets with no place to go. Plus a child with no parents is a soul barely able to look after him or her self’s mentally being that they are constantly reminded of how much of a cruel and cold start they had. So, all the work the good profilers do the bucket is still leaking badly……….

• On the fact that children are abandoned doesn’t mean that a mother would have aborted instead????? What is that mean???? I that mother was not fit for that pregnancy then aborting would have prevented abandonment………………

• I don’t wake up in the morning worrying if other people’s life’s are up to my standards, but it pisses me off completely to see the wrong committed on unwanted kids such as kids who have committed suicide because no one was there to guide them and care for them, and you can be sure that the number of kids who have killed them self’s who had no parents at the age of 14- 15 by far is not one or two isolated cases.

Pro choice is pro choice and if it doesn’t fit your standard THAN YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE A PROBLEM UNDERSTANDING THE DEFINITION BETWEEN THE TWO…………..

holy crap Soc, don't fly into hysterics.

You still can't force people to abort just because you think they'll abandon their kids. Freedom to abort doesn't stop abandonment in our country. The only way to change it would be to violate women's rights and FORCE abortion.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

holy crap Soc, don't fly into hysterics.

You still can't force people to abort just because you think they'll abandon their kids. Freedom to abort doesn't stop abandonment in our country. The only way to change it would be to violate women's rights and FORCE abortion.

Who is talking about forcing people to aboard???????????????? Oh my god Karrie, it is a worst violation on women’s rights not to allow them to decide entirely on their own, if this pregnancy was a mistake or an intended pregnancy…..

 

[karrie]

Who is talking about forcing people to aboard???????????????? Oh my god Karrie, it is a worst violation on women’s rights not to allow them to decide entirely on their own, if this pregnancy was a mistake or an intended pregnancy…..

And yet you're carrying on about abandoned children in a country where abortion is available, as proof that abortion is necessary. It makes no sense. If they're the reason abortion is necessary, then you're saying that you'd prefer they'd been killed.

 

[Risus]

Karrie. On your points
you can be sure that the number of kids who have killed them self’s who had no parents at the age of 14- 15 by far is not one or two isolated cases.

But what about all the ones that HAVE made a life for themselves???
You've gone off the deep end...

 

[Socrates the Greek]

And yet you're carrying on about abandoned children in a country where abortion is available, as proof that abortion is necessary. It makes no sense. If they're the reason abortion is necessary, then you're saying that you'd prefer they'd been killed.

Ye Karrie, if the mother is on crack, an alcoholic, a heroin user, a mother who has no regard for her body, that woman should not bring in this world a damaged GIN ON A HUMAN BODY WHICH WILL HAVE PHYSICAL AS WELL MENTAL ISSUES, DO YOU UNDERSTAND???? Please don’t use wards like killing them because that is not what is talking about here, I am not talking about killing, I am talking about specific prevention.

 

[karrie]

Ye Karrie, if the mother is on crack, an alcoholic, a heroin user, a mother who has no regard for her body, that woman should not bring in this world a damaged GIN ON A HUMAN BODY WHICH WILL HAVE PHYSICAL AS WELL MENTAL ISSUES, DO YOU UNDERSTAND???? Please don’t use wards like killing them because that is not what is talking about here, I am not talking about killing, I am talking about specific prevention.

You're talking about aborting if the mother doesn't suit your specifications.

 

[lone wolf]

Ye Karrie, if the mother is on crack, an alcoholic, a heroin user, a mother who has no regard for her body, that woman should not bring in this world a damaged GIN ON A HUMAN BODY WHICH WILL HAVE PHYSICAL AS WELL MENTAL ISSUES, DO YOU UNDERSTAND???? Please don’t use wards like killing them because that is not what is talking about here, I am not talking about killing, I am talking about specific prevention.

I don't think even Hitler tried that....

 

[Socrates the Greek]

But what about all the ones that HAVE made a life for themselves???
You've gone off the deep end...

Risus the ones I have just described to Karrie do not go on to have a good life, pay attention, the genetic damage on a woman who has a serious record of hard core drug abuse will not produce healthy births, also name some examples on kids from crack pot parents who have made a total recovery, the gen got damaged prior to the pregnancy and the child was born doomed………….

 

[karrie]

Risus the ones I have just described to Karrie do not go on to have a good life, pay attention, the genetic damage on a woman who has a serious record of hard core drug abuse will not produce healthy births, also name some examples on kids from crack pot parents who have made a total recovery, the gen got damaged prior to the pregnancy and the child was born doomed………….

And if someone can't live to YOUR standard, due to genetic abnormality, retardation, brain damage...? You think it's okay to mandate abortion for these pregnancies?

 

[Risus]

Risus the ones I have just described to Karrie do not go on to have a good life, pay attention, the genetic damage on a woman who has a serious record of hard core drug abuse will not produce healthy births, also name some examples on kids from crack pot parents who have made a total recovery, the gen got damaged prior to the pregnancy and the child was born doomed………….

No, you don't know that the child is doomed, you just say that to try to push your point of view...

 

[Socrates the Greek]

No, you don't know that the child is doomed, you just say that to try to push your point of view...

So tell me Risus and Karrie, a mother who before or during pregnancy if she was using hard core drugs do you think that the baby will be physically as well neurologically normal?