The Legacy of Pierre Trudeau

dj03

Electoral Member
Oct 9, 2007
160
1
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The notwithstanding clause only applies to certain sections of the Charter.

Yes, but it is the fundamental freedom sections that it overrides (freedom of speech, religion, the press, peaceful protest, etc...).

An example is Homosexual Marriage, In 1999 Parliament affirmed Marriage overwhelmingly as the union of one man and one woman, to the exclusion of all else. This reflected the large majority of the Canadian public opinion. What followed was a series of court challenges overturning a legitimate law as unconstitutional. Parliament, faced with an urgent threat that the Supreme Court would impose homosexual marriage on the country, capitulated without a fight.

Yeah, but by the time the issue reached a place where the government had to decide whether or not to appeal this to the Supreme Court, public opinion had changed so that it was closer to half in favour and half opposed.

Look, the Liberals were no heroes on this as both Chretien and Martin tried to punt this issue off their desks by getting "Supreme Court references" on some statements, the goal being to put this off until Chretien was gone and Martin had a majority...it didn't quite work out that way.

In the end, it worked out surprisingly well because the court reference basically put an end to any potential litigation against religious groups by gay activists trying to force them into this...and we shouldn't kid ourselves about this, one of the gay activists who started this was quoted in the Ottawa Citizen shortly after gay marriage was legalized as saying religious groups who didn't perform SSMs should have their tax exemption revoked, constitutional experts (ie. Charter experts) said that violated freedom of religion and the issued died that very week.
 

dj03

Electoral Member
Oct 9, 2007
160
1
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Calgary
I think the majority of people are tired of religions promoting all the dumb stuff.

You mean like the United Church of Canada (the largest protestant denomination in Canada) which was promoting gay rights back in the 70s when no one gave a crap? They advocated for putting sexual orientation in both the Human Rights Act and the Charter long before enlightened secularists cried with Tom Hanks in Philadelphia.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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A constitution means nothing if a simple majority can take away the rights of a minority. Why have one, just pick and choose rights by referendum at every election. I don't want to debate same sex marriage. I'm not homosexual and I couldn't give a hoot who marries who, so long as they didn't deny me my rights. But if that's the way people want our constitution to operate then I'll actively promote the outlawing of religion, or at least certain religions. I think the majority of people are tired of religions promoting all the dumb stuff. 51%, then punt them out.

In fact an argument without basis. What we have now is the tyranny of minority over the legitimate rights of the majority and the integrity of the entire state, imposed on us by the judiciary. And we are coming very close to outlawing religion already, with curbs on free speech, or the way 'hate speech' is codified.. it is moving relentlessly to defining what can and cannot be said from the pulpit. This has already happened in instances in Europe. The dictatorship of the New Age, and homosexual validation has always been a symbolic cornerstone of that, along with abortion.. is already upon us. We have lost all sense of good and evil as anything but a relative point of view.. and that is a sign.. throughout history of a society in precipitous and terminal decline.
 

scratch

Senate Member
May 20, 2008
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In fact an argument without basis. What we have now is the tyranny of minority over the legitimate rights of the majority and the integrity of the entire state, imposed on us by the judiciary. And we are coming very close to outlawing religion already, with curbs on free speech, or the way 'hate speech' is codified.. it is moving relentlessly to defining what can and cannot be said from the pulpit. This has already happened in instances in Europe. The dictatorship of the New Age, and homosexual validation has always been a symbolic cornerstone of that, along with abortion.. is already upon us. We have lost all sense of good and evil as anything but a relative point of view.. and that is a sign.. throughout history of a society in precipitous and terminal decline.



I will second that.
 

dj03

Electoral Member
Oct 9, 2007
160
1
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Calgary
But essentially it has means nothing anyway, if Parliament does not have the courage to use it.

Look, there are clearly people in the country who would like to use the notwithstanding clause to override other people's rights...abortion, gay marriage....people's right to practice their religion.

Living in a democracy, the notwithstanding clause could be used on any of those issues at any time, the reason why governments won't use it (with the exception of Quebec...Alberta tried) is because the blowback from it would damage them politically.

There would have to be overwhelming public support before any government would dare use it. If we have to have this in the Charter it is nice to at least have one control on it use.

Personally, I think we should turf it. Paul Martin was right, but it was an election stunt meant to try to change the talking points of the election and make Stephen Harper scary, rather than a well thought out policy decision.

Parliament needs to be sovereign in governance, subject only to the will of the people.

What if the people are wrong or the government doesn't care? Do you really want the atheists on this forum outlawing your religion because a sympathetic government is in power? Cause let me tell you, religion doesn't get much good press these days, the census shows non-religious people increasing and religious people decreasing and if that continues much longer you might find yourself in hostile political territory.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
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In fact an argument without basis. What we have now is the tyranny of minority over the legitimate rights of the majority and the integrity of the entire state, imposed on us by the judiciary. And we are coming very close to outlawing religion already, with curbs on free speech, or the way 'hate speech' is codified.. it is moving relentlessly to defining what can and cannot be said from the pulpit. This has already happened in instances in Europe. The dictatorship of the New Age, and homosexual validation has always been a symbolic cornerstone of that, along with abortion.. is already upon us. We have lost all sense of good and evil as anything but a relative point of view.. and that is a sign.. throughout history of a society in precipitous and terminal decline.
Tyranny of what, not being able to ban stuff done by the minority? Not banning them is tyranny? LOL. Boy that must be awful for those religous people when someone they don't know ,and never will know, gets married. It must be torture having the right to ban them trampled on.
 

dj03

Electoral Member
Oct 9, 2007
160
1
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Calgary
And we are coming very close to outlawing religion already, with curbs on free speech, or the way 'hate speech' is codified..

The examples that I have come across on this issue are fairly extreme with people associating homosexuality with other acts which society still finds detestable and where there is no evidence that any significant part of the gay community participates in.

Legitimate religious expressions on the subject have not run afoul of either human rights commissions or hate speech laws to the extent that (and I believe I gave this example earlier) a guy with a bumper sticker quoting passages from the Old Testament that included killing homosexuals had a human rights commission's ruling overturned on appeal with the court lecturing the HRC to be more careful with their rulings when it comes to "foundational religious texts"

The Charter is only 25 years old and I think we are still sorting out the jurisprudence on many issues, but religious freedom has certainly been defended by the courts even when the ruling is immensely unpopular with the general public...again, I will reference the kirpan ruling a couple of years ago.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
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You mean like the United Church of Canada (the largest protestant denomination in Canada) which was promoting gay rights back in the 70s when no one gave a crap? They advocated for putting sexual orientation in both the Human Rights Act and the Charter long before enlightened secularists cried with Tom Hanks in Philadelphia.
I will take your word for it. I haven't seen a religion be first out of the gate to advocate gay rights, but there is always a first.

My point was primarily to show that without a constitution that includes fundamental rights we could easily outlaw just about anything. On Sept 12 2001 this country would've outlawed Islam in a nano-second if put to a vote.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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will take your word for it. I haven't seen a religion be first out of the gate to advocate gay rights, but there is always a first.

My point was primarily to show that without a constitution that includes fundamental rights we could easily outlaw just about anything. On Sept 12 2001 this country would've outlawed Islam in a nano-second if put to a vote.
------------------------------------------------------Kreskin---------------------------------------

First of your points about religion. Slavery was first attacked not by secularists but by many religious denominations in the States, especially by scary old testament types that thought slavery was an abomination. All these abolitionists spoke from a relgious source not a secular source. You point out that some churches were for discrimination, but you will find out an equal and opposite truth, that all of the fiery abolitionists were religious and affiliated and used religious authority to attack slavery.

Your second point about a vote on natural rights is superb.
All "mature", "established" western democracies share a fear of the Tyranny of Majority.
This is one part of a long list of arguments that show that the vote is the last and least determining factor of true individual freedom.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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I will take your word for it. I haven't seen a religion be first out of the gate to advocate gay rights, but there is always a first.

My point was primarily to show that without a constitution that includes fundamental rights we could easily outlaw just about anything. On Sept 12 2001 this country would've outlawed Islam in a nano-second if put to a vote.

But that didn't happen anywhere. It didn't happen in Britain after 7/7 and they have a conventional Parliamentary system without a Charter of Rights. That allowed Britain however, with a huge Muslim population to take aggressive measures to ban known terrorist groups, detain known activists of jihad, based on non judicial intelligence and in order to prevent another attack. All of those things would have been hamstrung by constitutional challenges if they happened here.

In fact the will of majority is almost always fair, and consistent with long held traditions, especially those dealing with family, personal freedom and of people working within the law. Majorities in healthy societies tend to be fair and able to reconcile individual freedoms with essential limitations to those freedoms in the interest of the greatest good for the society at large. Something that minorities NEVER do.

The historical instances in the West of the will of the majority supposedly used to persecute a specific minority are hard to find, in the longer context of history. You can look at slavery in America or the fascist persecution of the Jews. But both these involved political cliques imposing their will, for economic gain, or megalomaniac world conquest, over a true majority. Both of those ending in flames and defeat for those cliques. None of those defeats were by actions of a constitution, which was more often used to block the fair minded will of the majority to the benefit of those cliques.

As to homosexuality.. religions, like it or not, are the founding inspirations of civilizations, including that of West, in Christianity. The problem with describing homosexuality in terms of fundamental rights is that it is proscribed in every major religion in the world. The legitimization, as opposed to the fact, of homosexuality throughout history has always been in the context of a society in deep distress, disarray and confusion. One that has lost its original civilizing impulse and now bows to idols of gratification and satiation. When you define rampaging political agendas as minorities your constitution stands self destruct the nation.

The homosexual lobby has managed to gain the control of the lexicon of the debate, equating their situation with the struggle for human rights and equality. The problem is that all those religions including that of the West defines homosexuality as something you do, not something you are. And marriage as a defined legal institution, regulated by the state for the common good and in concordance with its religious antecedents. The primary statutory goal of marriage is the rearing of children in a safe, stable and loving structure.. something, obviously, of which the homosexual agenda has little interest, but which to the nation defines its destiny.

And that's where we find ourselves. Those constructive civilizing impulses that remain have been left defenseless by a constitution that arms those who are intent on bringing down its most central tenets and institutions.That's Trudeau's legacy.
 
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Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Let's see, Pierre Elliot Trudeau:

- set out to destroy the Canadian military

- invoked martial law, imprisoning hundreds of people without charge or trial.

- alienated the west

- made it accepted for gov't to ignore Parliament (extended use ofOrder in Council, treated backbencherrs as "nobodies)

- set us on a course to massive debt (yes, Juan, I know Mulrooney was worse)

- undercut our contribution to NATO, alienating our allies, lessening our influence in the world.

- brought home the constitution without Quebec........alienating the Province and promoting separatism

- introduced the idiocy of cross-Canada bilingualism

I personally think Trudeau was one of the worst PMs we ever had....he radically changed the nature of the nation....for the worse, IMHO.

I love the (small "l") liberals that worship at the feet of Trudeau, forgetting that he threw hundreds in jail for month after month without trial or charge.....with no reason....no deaths, just three kidnappings. The same people think G. W. Bush is Satan because of his actions......after almost 3000 of his people were murdered.

Huh?????

Personally, I still intend to make a pilgrimage to the site of Trudeau's statue.....just to piss on his leg.

The two dominant figures of Canadian Liberalism in the 20th century.....W. L. King (certifiable) and P.E. Trudeau......

Geezus!
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Trudeau on Language Rights
Re:Equality or Independence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeSZyHiex5k&feature=related

Trudeau on Unreconciled Provinces

Trudeau had the brains to back up his arrogance. Stupid arrogant people are far more annoying.

I am grateful for most of the changes Trudeau made.

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms:
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/

  • freedom of expression
  • the right to a democratic government
  • the right to live and to seek employment anywhere in Canada
  • legal rights of persons accused of crimes
  • Aboriginal peoples' rights
  • the right to equality, including the equality of men and women
  • the right to use either of Canada's official languages
  • the right of French and English linguistic minorities to an education in their language
  • the protection of Canada's multicultural heritage.
Multiculturalism
http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/multi/policy/act_e.cfm

Multiculturalism policy
3. (1) It is hereby declared to be the policy of the Government of Canada to
(a) recognize and promote the understanding that multiculturalism reflects the cultural and racial diversity of Canadian society and acknowledges the freedom of all members of Canadian society to preserve, enhance and share their cultural heritage;
(b) recognize and promote the understanding that multiculturalism is a fundamental characteristic of the Canadian heritage and identity and that it provides an invaluable resource in the shaping of Canada's future;
(c) promote the full and equitable participation of individuals and communities of all origins in the continuing evolution and shaping of all aspects of Canadian society and assist them in the elimination of any barrier to that participation;
(d) recognize the existence of communities whose members share a common origin and their historic contribution to Canadian society, and enhance their development;
(e) ensure that all individuals receive equal treatment and equal protection under the law, while respecting and valuing their diversity;
(f) encourage and assist the social, cultural, economic and political institutions of Canada to be both respectful and inclusive of Canada's multicultural character;
(g) promote the understanding and creativity that arise from the interaction between individuals and communities of different origins;
(h) foster the recognition and appreciation of the diverse cultures of Canadian society and promote the reflection and the evolving expressions of those cultures;
(i) preserve and enhance the use of languages other than English and French, while strengthening the status and use of the official languages of Canada; and
(j) advance multiculturalism throughout Canada in harmony with the national commitment to the official languages of Canada.

But we still haven't paid off the deficit which really began under his leadership...
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
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But that didn't happen anywhere. It didn't happen in Britain after 7/7 and they have a conventional Parliamentary system without a Charter of Rights. That allowed Britain however, with a huge Muslim population to take aggressive measures to ban known terrorist groups, detain known activists of jihad, based on non judicial intelligence and in order to prevent another attack. All of those things would have been hamstrung by constitutional challenges if they happened here.

Canada has a not withstanding clause which allows legislation to temporarily violate the constitution.

In fact the will of majority is almost always fair, and consistent with long held traditions, especially those dealing with family, personal freedom and of people working within the law. Majorities in healthy societies tend to be fair and able to reconcile individual freedoms with essential limitations to those freedom in the interests of the greatest good for the society at large. Something that minorities NEVER do.

The will of the majority is almost always self serving and as a result tends to trample on the rights of minorities. If we blindly maintained traditions we would still be holding inquistions and burning witches. At one time those were long held traditions supported by the majority.

The historical instances in the West of the will of the majority supposedly used to persecute a specific minority are hard to find, in the longer context of history. You can look at slavery in America or the fascist persecution of the Jews. But both these involved political cliques imposing their will, for economic gain, or megalomaniac world conquest, over a true majority. Both of those ending in flames and defeat for those cliques. None of those defeats were by actions of a constitution, which was more often used to block the fair minded will of the majority to the benefit of those cliques.

Prejudice and discrimination is alive and well in Canada. Ask any visible minority or Muslim. Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms gives them the ability to fight for the same rights as everyone else.

As to homosexuality.. religions, like it or not, are the founding inspirations of civilizations, including that of West, in Christianity. The problem with describing homosexuality in terms of fundamental rights is that it is proscribed in every major religion in the world. The legitimization, as opposed to the fact, of homosexuality throughout history has always been in the context of a society in deep distress, disarray and confusion. One that has its lost original civilizing impulse and now bows to idols of gratification and satiation. When you define rampaging political agendas as minorities your constitution stands self destruct the nation.

Either we have equal rights or we don't. In a free society either consenting adults have the right to declare legally who they love or they don't. Homosexual equality with heterosexuals isn't just about sexual gratification. Its also child custody, survivor benefits, division of property, tax breaks...

Who gets custody of a Lesbian's child? Her life partner and the only other parent the child has ever known, or the biological grandparents who have never seen the child and disapprove of homosexuality.

The homosexual lobby has managed to gain the control of the lexicon of the debate, equating their situation with the struggle for human rights and equality. The problem is that all those religions including that of the West defines homosexuality as something you do, not something you are. And marriage as a defined legal institution, regulated by the state for the common good and in concordance with its religious antecedents, the primary statutory goal of which is the rearing of children in a safe, stable and loving structure.. something, obviously, of which the homosexual agenda has little interest.

Marriage defines us as a couple. Equal rights means that both heterosexual and homosexual couples have this right and all its benefits. Inequality would mean excluding people.

That means that when a gay man dies his pension goes back to the government rather than to his gay partner of 30 years. Even though the gay man contributed just as much to the pension plan as straight people, his partner doesn't get a survivor pension, because he is a homosexual.

And that's where we find ourselves. Those constructive civilizing impulses that remain have been left defenseless by a constitution that arms those who are intent on bringing down its most central tenets and institutions.That's Trudeau's legacy.

What we are talking about is the legality and equality of relationships between consenting adults. Their sexuality is none of our business.

Can you explain how the Charter of Rights and Freedoms threatens you? Specifically what rights have you lost and how have you suffered as a result?
 
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jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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the rearing of children in a safe, stable and loving structure.. something, obviously, of which the homosexual agenda has little interest.
------------------------------------------Coldstream---------------------------------------------

That statement begs more study.

If you're talking lesbians, then you might be wrong. There's a Supreme court issue arising in my town between two gay women fighting for custody. One from another state and one in here in this town Winchester VA.

If just gay guys you might be right. Men, whether hetero or homo, are more predatory and more the temporary conquistadors. Men also dominate prison populations. You might be amazed at how lopsided the figures are.

But this is just tangential to your other points.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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Either we have equal rights or we don't. In a free society consenting adults have the right to choose who they love or don't. Homosexual equality with heterosexuals isn't just about sexual gratification. Its also child custody, survivor benefits, division of property, tax breaks...

Who gets custody of a Lesbian's child? Her life partner and the only other parent the child has ever known, or the biological grandparents who have never seen the child and disapprove of homosexuality.

Homosexuality by definition is SOLEY about sexual gratification.. it is only heterosexuality that has the purpose of producing children. Quite frankly, i'd be willing to define a 'homosexual' household as one that is fundamentally abusive and detrimental to the welfare of the child, on the basis that it is one governed completely by sensual gratification, without moral and spiritual attributes. The paper thin logic of constitutions would never accept that because it can't adjudicate beyond superficial rights to address fundamental moral imperatives that a society has to. Those are ones that acknowledge good and evil, words that never appear in constitutions, but which are absolutely central to religions, and to the wellbeing of civilizations they spawn. It's those words that will define the destiny of any society, even one as small as a family.
 
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jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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Homosexuality by definition is SOLEY about sexual gratification.
----------------------------------coldstream-----------------------------------------------

According to psychiatry, sexuality is the least amenable to behavioral modification.
That's why pedophiles always have the desire. They may learn discipline, but they'll never lose the desire. That's why heteros and homos remain what they are.
Some exceptions are younger girls who do more cross-experimentation.

Your statement assumes people are NOT born homo or hetero.
Back in the day when everyone lived in a closet, I wonder why anyone would have wanted to persue homosexual desires especially since society subjects such to derisive ridicule and joking.

I believe this is one of the last bastions of civil rights for us to understand.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
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the rearing of children in a safe, stable and loving structure.. something, obviously, of which the homosexual agenda has little interest.
------------------------------------------Coldstream---------------------------------------------

That statement begs more study.

If you're talking lesbians, then you might be wrong. There's a Supreme court issue arising in my town between two gay women fighting for custody. One from another state and one in here in this town Winchester VA.

If just gay guys you might be right. Men, whether hetero or homo, are more predatory and more the temporary conquistadors. Men also dominate prison populations. You might be amazed at how lopsided the figures are.

But this is just tangential to your other points.

Blacks are also well represented in the US prison system. In Canada its people from first nations. Do you believe these minorities shouldn't be allowed to get married or have children?

I'm sure many gay people have been excellent parents and some heterosexual parents have made terrible parents. I believe that we should judge people based on their actions, rather than skin color or sexual orientation and that in a free society people are presumed innocent until proven guilty.
 

jimmoyer

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I'm sure many gay people have been excellent parents and some heterosexual parents have made terrible parents. I believe that we should judge people based on their actions, rather than skin color or sexual orientation and that in a free society people are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

--------------------------------------------earth_as_one------------------------------------------

Good points.

However this rational and good point of view has gotten us into trouble with pedophiles.

We have discovered that 2nd and 3rd chances and "working" with them do little to eradicate a central tendency. This is too bad for them and it is too bad for us. We wish that everyone get a chance to right themselves.

But we are starting to understand that pedophiles are truly resistant to behavior modification. The laws are starting to reflect that.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Homosexuality by definition is SOLEY about sexual gratification.. it is only heterosexuality that has the purpose of producing children. Quite frankly, i'd be willing to define a 'homosexual' household as one that is fundamentally abusive and detrimental to the welfare of the child, on the basis that it is one governed completely by sensual gratification, without moral and spiritual attributes. The paper thin logic of constitutions would never accept that because it can't adjudicate beyond superficial rights to address fundamental moral imperatives that a society has to. Those are ones that acknowledge good and evil, words that never appear in constitutions, but which are absolutely central to religions, and to the wellbeing of civilizations they spawn. It's those words that will define the destiny of any society, even one as small as a family.


.. but i could be wrong. ;-)

Are you telling me you've never had sex except specifically for the purposes of procreation? Not even once... just for fun?

I'm glad Canada has a Charter of Rights and Freedoms to protect law abiding Canadians from self righteous people like you who assume people are abusive or an environment is detrimental to children based on the parent's sexuality.

ACLU
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Research Overview of Lesbian and Gay Parenting[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]All of the research to date has reached the same unequivocal conclusion about gay parenting: the children of lesbian and gay parents grow up as successfully as the children of heterosexual parents. In fact, not a single study has found the children of lesbian or gay parents to be disadvantaged because of their parents' sexual orientation. Other key findings include: [/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]There is no evidence to suggest that lesbians and gay men are unfit to be parents. [/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Home environments with lesbian and gay parents are as likely to successfully support a child's development as those with heterosexual parents. [/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Good parenting is not influenced by sexual orientation. Rather, it is influenced most profoundly by a parent's ability to create a loving and nurturing home -- an ability that does not depend on whether a parent is gay or straight. [/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]There is no evidence to suggest that the children of lesbian and gay parents are less intelligent, suffer from more problems, are less popular, or have lower self-esteem than children of heterosexual parents. [/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]The children of lesbian and gay parents grow up as happy, healthy and well-adjusted as the children of heterosexual parents. [/FONT]
http://www.aclu.org/lgbt/parenting/11824res19990406.html

Hopefully other people here recognize CS's opinions about homosexuals are based on myths and stereotypes, not objective research.

CS's posts are good examples of why minorities need the protection of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
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I'm sure many gay people have been excellent parents and some heterosexual parents have made terrible parents. I believe that we should judge people based on their actions, rather than skin color or sexual orientation and that in a free society people are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

--------------------------------------------earth_as_one------------------------------------------

Good points.

However this rational and good point of view has gotten us into trouble with pedophiles.

We have discovered that 2nd and 3rd chances and "working" with them do little to eradicate a central tendency. This is too bad for them and it is too bad for us. We wish that everyone get a chance to right themselves.

But we are starting to understand that pedophiles are truly resistant to behavior modification. The laws are starting to reflect that.

If someone is a pedophile and has a history of abusing children, they should loose custody of their children. But there is no evidence that homosexuals are more likely to be pedophiles than heterosexuals.

University of California
Facts About Homosexuality and Child Molestation

...The distinction between a victim's gender and a perpetrator's sexual orientation is important because many child molesters don't really have an adult sexual orientation. They have never developed the capacity for mature sexual relationships with other adults, either men or women. Instead, their sexual attractions focus on children – boys, girls, or children of both sexes...

...In a more recent literature review, Dr. Nathaniel McConaghy (1998) similarly cautioned against confusing homosexuality with pedophilia. He noted, "The man who offends against prepubertal or immediately postpubertal boys is typically not sexually interested in older men or in women" (p. 259).

This well known lack of a linkage between homosexuality and child molestation accounts for why relatively little research has directly addressed the issue. Proving something we already know simply isn't a priority. Indeed, a commentary that accompanied publication of the 1994 study by Jenny et al. in Pediatrics noted that debates about gay people as molesters "have little to do with everyday child abuse" and lamented that they distract lawmakers and the public from dealing with the real problem of children's sexual mistreatment (Krugman, 1994)...

...The empirical research does not show that gay or bisexual men are any more likely than heterosexual men to molest children. This is not to argue that homosexual and bisexual men never molest children. But there is no scientific basis for asserting that they are more likely than heterosexual men to do so. And, as explained above, many child molesters cannot be characterized as having an adult sexual orientation at all; they are fixated on children...

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/HTML/facts_molestation.html

Pierre Trudeau Quotes:

The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation.


Canada will be a strong country when Canadians of all provinces feel at home in all parts of the country, and when they feel that all Canada belongs to them.


I bear solemn witness to the fact that NATO heads of state and of government meet only to go through the tedious motions of reading speeches, drafted by others, with the principal objective of not rocking the boat.


Living next to you is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt.


Luck, that's when preparation and opportunity meet.


My life is one long curve, full of turning points.


The essential ingredient of politics is timing.


We wish nothing more, but we will accept nothing less. Masters in our own house we must be, but our house is the whole of Canada.