Catholic Discussion

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
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Is it really? I don't agree. It's not alright to be outside of the church. It is understandable, it is something we know exists and must accept, but alright? I think not.

Unfortunately, arriving at that point in faith where Jesus only matters, has not been reached by you yet.
If Jesus is central to your faith, and loving thy neighbor is His command, then anybody outside the church is your mother, brother sister.
For this is the requirement as put forth by Jesus: Mat 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Mat 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Mat 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Mat 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Doesn't read, whosoever belongs to "a" church.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

sanctus

The Padre
Oct 27, 2006
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Unfortunately, arriving at that point in faith where Jesus only matters, has not been reached by you yet.
If Jesus is central to your faith, and loving thy neighbor is His command, then anybody outside the church is your mother, brother sister.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:



AJ, if you were of the spiritual sort, and not the sort that relies on your own self-interpretation of the Scriptures, you would realize that Christ calls us to Him through memebrship in the Church He established. Since you live still in the carnal world, this will be difficult for you to appreciate.

That being said, loving everybody is fine, and certainly in keeping with the Scriptures. However, fellowship for the members of the Church is exclusive to the Church.
 

sanctus

The Padre
Oct 27, 2006
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We dance around all the issues that cause us to differ, but can we unite under one God in Christ?

Hey, it's alright to be Catholic, Protestant, Jew or a non-believer.

Believe what you want, but if that believe causes you to alienate yourself from your brothers and sisters, than you might want to analyze your beliefs and bring them in line with what Jesus said, love your neighbor.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:

It is not alright, in one sense, to be "anything you want". This is a very modern form of thinking and contrary to the Scriptures. Yes we are called to love our neighbours, but we are not called to accept those such as yourself that have rejected Christ.
 

sanctus

The Padre
Oct 27, 2006
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Catholic church is for the sheep

Protestants are for the real people.

Interesting. Do you consider yourself a Protestant? And yet, you claim to not belong to any denomination because the various churches in your town do not please you, remember?

Nothing in the religious world irks me more than people claiming denominational membership in this or that group yet never attend the church of the denomination they claim to be a member of. Here's a mind-blower for you dear West: You cannot claim to be a Baptist(for example) if you are not a member of a Baptist Church.(Substitute for Baptist whatever flavour of churchmanship you claim to be a member of)
 

sanctus

The Padre
Oct 27, 2006
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Let Us Pray. Grant, we beseech Thee, O Lord God, unto us Thy
servants, that we may rejoice in continual health of mind and body,
and by the glorious intercession of Blessed Mary, ever virgin, may be
delivered from present sadness, and enter into the joy of Thine
eternal gladness. Through Christ Our Lord.
R. Amen
-------------------------------------------------

Thanks for sharing this lovely Litany Michael.
 

sanctus

The Padre
Oct 27, 2006
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Ouch, I hope you didn't include some of those churches in the count of protestant like Jehovah's Witness (which is actually called latter day saints)

The JW's are not called "Latter Day Saints", That is the Mormons.

I
nfact you are the one that said there are 1.5 Billion Roman Catholics, it is only now that you are correcting yourself. Which is fine, I understand a mistake. I wouldn't call you a liar because of it.


Let me amend that, if you will. there are 1.5 billion Catholic believers in the world, which includes Anglo-Catholics(non-Canterbury Anglicans), Orthodox, Old Catholics, and RC.



Anyway I got out the old calculator and added up as many denominations as I can find which have the basic belief I posted above, I end up with 925 000 000, Now information on independents is damn hard to come by, but two things I have read (one US, one World) had there independent numbers as closely relating to the religions I posted above (lutheran, baptist...).

Your calculator is in error. As the list indicated, there are 500 million, give or take, Protestants in the world.(500 million too many if you ask me;-) )
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
1,952
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Northern California
AJ, if you were of the spiritual sort, and not the sort that relies on your own self-interpretation of the Scriptures, you would realize that Christ calls us to Him through memebrship in the Church He established. Since you live still in the carnal world, this will be difficult for you to appreciate.

That being said, loving everybody is fine, and certainly in keeping with the Scriptures. However, fellowship for the members of the Church is exclusive to the Church.

I understand what you mean Sanctus. You are saying because I don't belong to the Catholic Church, I am rejecting Christ.
That would be the same as me saying that unless you are a Jehovah's Witness, you may not be (maybe) of the 144,000.
Or, I could also say that unless I am a Seventh Day Adventist, I would be breaking the Sabbath law, therefore also rejecting Christ.

But I, on the other hand have none of these prerequisites. I require no one to belong to any prescribed body of believers.
Only to believe, trust and relay on the one individual who is able to make a change in their lives based upon their heart condition and not on who or what they are.

The following is the universal message offered us by Christ.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Doesn't say, whosoever belongs to the Catholic Church shall be saved, but "Whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord" shall be saved.

Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

The door is opened unto all who would call upon Him.

Therefore above all church organizations in this world for whatever belief system they have, if in their heart, they don't call upon Him who is able to save them, then they are doomed to continue on their present course.

For the word says we are condemned already, meaning that any change to that
condition would have to be a change in heart towards God.

When that happens, it is then..... my friend, is when we truly become members of His Church!

You recall Jesus telling the Jews that just because their Jews outwardly it doesn't mean that they are Jews in heart?

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Joh 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Joh 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Joh 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
Joh 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

The heart is where Jesus wants to reside, and there is where He finds rest in your soul, you are His body-witness here on this earth.

So, I say to you and all brother Sanctus, believing in Jesus as your Savior is all you need.
If Jesus has not caused you change your old ways, then your heart never received Him to start with.
For Jesus cleanses from the inside out, not from the outside in.
The outside would be everything that is earthly.
The inside would be everything that is heavenly.
Which suppose is the greater of the two?

Bring your hearts to honor Him who is able to save your souls, for He alone is God, and there is no other besides Him.

Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
2Ti 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:






 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
1,952
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Northern California
The JW's are not called "Latter Day Saints", That is the Mormons.
Let me amend that, if you will. there are 1.5 billion Catholic believers in the world, which includes Anglo-Catholics(non-Canterbury Anglicans), Orthodox, Old Catholics, and RC.
Your calculator is in error. As the list indicated, there are 500 million, give or take, Protestants in the world.(500 million too many if you ask me;-) )

I understood his mistake on the latter day saints, and gave him the benefit of the doubt.
As far as numbers of who's who, makes no difference, because numbers mean nothing but divisions, as to who has more and is simply man's jealousy's anyways.

The true numbers, if one could tell, is in the hearts of mankind. There is where you find the true members of the church of Christ, not in man mad churches.

A member can identify another member of the church of Christ by the Spirit of Christ that is in them.

And I find it rather odd that you can not see the Spirit of Christ in me, when that is all I speak about.

I see it in your heart as a desire to please Him, but are restrained by the dictates of the church of Rome.
Therefore, are under bondage to the Catholic Church and not to Christ solely. For if you were Christ's first, then you could be a Catholic second.

But, I would say, that if you were Christ's first, you would have acknowledge Him in me, and we would have communion with Him.

But, as it is, the church comes between us as a prerequisite.

And, there......... you have it in a nut shell.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

csanopal

Electoral Member
Dec 22, 2006
225
5
18
Toronto, ON
I currently work in the RCIA program at my church. Most of the time I use materials that I create on my own. I have been able to customize my lessons (using good orthodox sources that I have in my own library AND with the help of my priest). I find that by doing this I can carefully explain the various beliefs of the church AND do it in a manner that is not too complicated and that the average person can understand. One of the topics that I will be delving into shortly is the Church's position on birth control. I have a better than average understanding of Humanae vitae, but I would like to find a website (preferably) that is relatively thorough in its explaination of the main concepts behind Humanae Vitae but does so in a way that the average convert can easily understand. In short, I'm looking for something that isn't ridiculously simplistic (and therefore not informative and/or convincing) but is also reader friendly. Kind of a "Humanae Vitae for Dummies." I would love to find a site that I could use as a reference for anyone that I'm working with. Thanks.
 

sanctus

The Padre
Oct 27, 2006
4,558
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I currently work in the RCIA program at my church. Most of the time I use materials that I create on my own. I have been able to customize my lessons (using good orthodox sources that I have in my own library AND with the help of my priest). I find that by doing this I can carefully explain the various beliefs of the church AND do it in a manner that is not too complicated and that the average person can understand. One of the topics that I will be delving into shortly is the Church's position on birth control. I have a better than average understanding of Humanae vitae, but I would like to find a website (preferably) that is relatively thorough in its explaination of the main concepts behind Humanae Vitae but does so in a way that the average convert can easily understand. In short, I'm looking for something that isn't ridiculously simplistic (and therefore not informative and/or convincing) but is also reader friendly. Kind of a "Humanae Vitae for Dummies." I would love to find a site that I could use as a reference for anyone that I'm working with. Thanks.
Look up Dr. Janet Smith, she teaches on the issue of birth control.
http://www.catholiceducation.org/art...ty/se0002.html

Also, read up on Theology of the Body by Pope John Paul II. Christopher West wrote a wonderful book about sex and marriage.
http://www.christopherwest.com/

Refer to the Catechism #2370
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
 

m_levesque

Electoral Member
Dec 18, 2006
524
10
18
Montreal, Quebec
In Roman Catholic tradition, the Stations of the Cross depict the events in the crucifixion of Christ on Good Friday.

The First Station: Jesus is Condemned to Die.
The Second Station: Jesus Carries His Cross.
The Third Station: Jesus Falls the First Time.
The Fourth Station: Jesus Meets His Mother.
The Fifth Station: Simon Helps Jesus Carry His Cross.
The Sixth Station: Veronica Wipes Jesus' Face.
The Seventh Station: Jesus Falls the Second Time.
The Eighth Station: Jesus Meets the Women of Jerusalem.
The Ninth Station: Jesus Falls the Third Time.
The Tenth Station: Jesus is Stripped.
The Eleventh Station: Jesus is Nailed to the Cross.
The Twelfth Station: Jesus Dies on the Cross.
The Thirteenth Station: Jesus is Taken Down from the Cross.
The Fourteenth Station: Jesus is Laid in the Tomb.
 

csanopal

Electoral Member
Dec 22, 2006
225
5
18
Toronto, ON
In Roman Catholic tradition, the Stations of the Cross depict the events in the crucifixion of Christ on Good Friday.

The First Station: Jesus is Condemned to Die.
The Second Station: Jesus Carries His Cross.
The Third Station: Jesus Falls the First Time.
The Fourth Station: Jesus Meets His Mother.
The Fifth Station: Simon Helps Jesus Carry His Cross.
The Sixth Station: Veronica Wipes Jesus' Face.
The Seventh Station: Jesus Falls the Second Time.
The Eighth Station: Jesus Meets the Women of Jerusalem.
The Ninth Station: Jesus Falls the Third Time.
The Tenth Station: Jesus is Stripped.
The Eleventh Station: Jesus is Nailed to the Cross.
The Twelfth Station: Jesus Dies on the Cross.
The Thirteenth Station: Jesus is Taken Down from the Cross.
The Fourteenth Station: Jesus is Laid in the Tomb.

One of my favourite devotions are the Stations.
 

csanopal

Electoral Member
Dec 22, 2006
225
5
18
Toronto, ON
I understand what you mean Sanctus. You are saying because I don't belong to the Catholic Church, I am rejecting Christ.

You're the one that keeps inserting the word Catholic in it, Sanctus talks about the Church. Admitedly by implication this is the Catholic church. Don't you believe Jesus founded the Catholic Church?
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
1,952
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38
Northern California
You're the one that keeps inserting the word Catholic in it, Sanctus talks about the Church. Admitedly by implication this is the Catholic church. Don't you believe Jesus founded the Catholic Church?

You know, Jesus begin His ministry with 12apostles. The number 12 is an earthly number dipcting an earhtly organization. Also a complete cross section of all earhly things.

By the way, numbers in scripture are significant and carry allot of meaning.

The start of the ministry of the Apostles was at Pentecost. This was the beginnings of the Church of Christ, not the Catholic Church as we think today.

Let me explain why I say that.

The church of Christ is not an earthly body but a spiritual body in earthly vessels making up the spiritual church on earth.

At the very start there were no set rules, traditions or places of worship by where theses new found believers could worship in.

So they met in individual houses.

And as like the natrual human insticts, humanity desires a leader. Much like it is discribed in the bible when God gave the Jews King Saul.

They demanded a leader.

Anyways, you can read it for yourself and make up your own mind as to what to believe.

But, Christ's Church is in the hearts of souls. Once we become members by knowledge of, reliance of and trust in this new Savior of our souls, we become members forever and without end.

Those are promises given to us for our comforts in times of trials and tribulations.

Read the chapter of Romans 5. By the way, the number five is significant in the word grace.
As you will see by the contents of that chapter.

The physical churches are but mere directors, directing us to Christ. (hopefully if it does not corrupt itself )

Christ is the ultimate goal for all of us, because He is Jesus, the new name in heaven and on earth by which all mankind shall be saved.

He is God! Besides Him there is no other gods by which mankind can be saved.

Membership in any church will not save any soul, but Christ will. And when He does save you, you will become a member of His Church triumphant, of which nothing on this earth can touch it.

But is at the gates of hell rescuing souls, from this hellish environment.

You and I are at the gates of hell, because we know who our Savior is and we are known of Him.

We are therefore called to carry His message of salvation to our immediate circles of influence by demonstration. Christ of course being the perfect example of that demonstrate. Loving His enemies.

His enemies are the souls God wants, for He alone could save us all.

For all of us had become enemies of God because of the flesh, but now are given the privilege of becoming friends of Christ and invited to the feast. 1Pe 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Invitation: Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

The supper of the lamb.Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

We are all called, but many don't come.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

csanopal

Electoral Member
Dec 22, 2006
225
5
18
Toronto, ON
You know, Jesus begin His ministry with 12apostles. The number 12 is an earthly number dipcting an earhtly organization. Also a complete cross section of all earhly things.

By the way, numbers in scripture are significant and carry allot of meaning.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:



Okay, read this carefully Look.....please for the love of God just answer the question minus the ten page answer..do you think the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus--that should be easy--YES or NO?
 

csanopal

Electoral Member
Dec 22, 2006
225
5
18
Toronto, ON
. In making the lead character of His story a Samaritan, Jesus was making a significant point to His audience. That is, we are to care for everyone, regardless of race or ethnic background, even our enemies.

Sorry for the mini-homily!

Jesus used examples featuring Samartans allot, didn't he Father?
 

darleneonfire

Electoral Member
Jan 12, 2007
203
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Ontario
Okay, read this carefully Look.....please for the love of God just answer the question minus the ten page answer..do you think the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus--that should be easy--YES or NO?

Hun, if he didn't write ten page notes that ramble and make no point we wouldn't know it was him...just joking Look!
 
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look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
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Okay, read this carefully Look.....please for the love of God just answer the question minus the ten page answer..do you think the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus--that should be easy--YES or NO?

NO! Jesus's Church is a spiritual church not physical! That is what I have been saying all along. But because the Catholic Church has blinders on you, you can not see passed it to see the spiritual church of Christ.

You only see the physical church of mankind, in church buildings made with hands.
Please understand what the spiritual church is: Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

This eternal church body is a heavenly body not made with hands, of which is the body of Christ.

Peace>>>AJ:love9: