Aj, how can you possibly believe half of the nonsense you write? Basically, God must have lied for He thinks He established the Church.
Catholic Discussion
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Aj, how can you possibly believe half of the nonsense you write? Basically, God must have lied for He thinks He established the Church.
Sanctus, it is not that difficult to understand. The physical church is a vehicle by which souls can be led to Christ. Christ than saves by the conversion of their hearts whether Catholic, Baptist, Morrmon or what have you.
There must be a conversion of the heart to be saved. It is a requirement. Jesus said:Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Why is it that?
Because: Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
You see. we are all condemned by the birth of the flesh and sentenced to eternal sepaeration. (Death)
This is a sentence that is nondiscrimination, for it applies to all flesh.
Therefore, the whole purpose of the coming of Christ, was to reverse that condition, not by changing what already exists (Flesh) but to change the heart of the soul in the flesh to a new state; that of being born all over again but this time of God and not of the first Adam the flesh.
Why suppose we are conditioned to seek a higher level of consciousness? It is ingrained in us to do so, it is the good part of the tree of knowledge in us.
We are to look at Jesus as the author and finisher of our faith: Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
There you have it. The author of our faith is: the identification we need of the Father's love for us
to want to come to Him in repentance (Change of mind towards Him) and accept His new proposal in His Son Jesus as the finisher of that belief or faith.
We are made whole and complete in Him. Joh 7:23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
Jesus makes us whole on the new Sabbath day, meaning the new world where we can now find rest for our lost souls.
The law of Moses is what mankind stress to follow for righteousness sake for whatever conditions man has set for himself, but Christ makes us whole without the law of Moses, since Grace is not dependent on mankind's righteousness.
Grace is granted from the throne of God where Jesus our High priest mediates for us the entrance into His Kingdom Chruch not make with human hands.
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
When I speak, I speak not of any church group, but only of Jesus, for He is the one and only Savior by which we may receive our inheritance into the New Kingdom, and again, that is not of this world but heavenly.
Why suppose I don't discriminate between say, you and the unbelievers in this forum?
Because I know who Jesus is to all of us whether we believe or not.
All of you are my brother, my sisters, my mother, for in Jesus there is no difference, He loves us all friend and foe.
Thus He instructs us to : Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Why should I?
Only because my heart has been converted, circumcised (Spiritually speaking) and revealing the head, which is Jesus.
My friends, regardless of who you are, or what church you belong to, Jesus is the only individual representative of the Father by which your souls may be saved by.
Churches save nobody, it is Jesus in those churches that save the souls of them that diligently seek Him.
Therefore, it is the heart of our souls that is transformed into this new creature from the old creature the flesh.
Not that difficult to understand. Take off the blinders set up by human thought and let God's thought come into your hearts and be transformed.
Peace>>>Aj:love9:
Problem is, in a nutshell, you don't understand the Christian faith. If you did, you'd know what the church is.
OK, you tell me what the Christain faith is without requiring me to become a Catholic.
And I will tell you how to become a member of the church of Christ, and still be a Catholic.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
The Catholic Church is part of the faith, since it is the true Church founded by Jesus Himself. We've only been telling you that 2,000 times, but you don't get it.
Let's see if we can return to the theme of this thread and hopefully avoid the ten million page responses of Look
Yes, salvation is a road we walk in an attempt to come to the promised land with Christ. We can easily stray off that road, sad to say.
Yes, I agree with you that the Catholic Church is part of the road to Jesus and salvation.
But, I am saying is that Jesus alone is your salvation, Catholic or not!
I understand it one time, but 2,000 times only means someone else doesn't.
It is so simple to come to Christ Catholic or not.
I am not attacking the Catholic Church, only trying to establish the path to salvation as being Jesus.
That means that church affiliation means nothing, only Jesus.
Now, you believe in Jesus and I believe in Jesus, why then the opposition?
I have no problem loving you as a Catholic in Jesus name.
I am open minded and can understand why I meet with opposition.
The love of Christ in me drives me to have compassion for my fellow brother and sister.
I am aware of my salvation as a done deal, promised by Jesus and relied on by me.
With Jesus as my firm foundation, I need no other.
On that foundation, I lay my hopes and my obligations to Him as my Savior.
You can remain a Catholic and still love Jesus as I do. The only difference is how we practice.
So, don't feel threatened by my words, but be joyful that I give Jesus all the glory.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
Forget the term "Catholic", the fact is to be in Christ means you must be in communion with His representative on earth, the Pope and in His Church. That is HIS teaching, not mine. Perhaps if you added all the numbers up in the Bible you'd come to this understanding
Let's see if we can return to the theme of this thread and hopefully avoid the ten million page responses of Look
Yes, salvation is a road we walk in an attempt to come to the promised land with Christ. We can easily stray off that road, sad to say.
thank god. now if only we can avoid look posting his long answers
seriously, that makes sense really. nothing is a total thing if we throw it away. i mean, what about the person who says they are a christian but than goes against the faith. is he still saved? id say no, he gave that up on his own accord.
thats not true. im reading about the history of the church and the christian faith right now and right from the get go they had certain traditions they followed. for example, they believed in an apostolicly appointed ministry we call priests and they believe in taking communionat every service. their format for worship is pretty much the same as what we now call the mass. and they also believe mary was sacred as the mother of god and that she could be our intercessor with jesus. all kinds of things still being taught in the catholic church were in the 1st century church.
Forget the term "Catholic", the fact is to be in Christ means you must be in communion with His representative on earth, the Pope and in His Church. That is HIS teaching, not mine. Perhaps if you added all the numbers up in the Bible you'd come to this understanding
OK, I'll drop the term Catholic if you drop the term Pope! Equal trade?
Look brother Sanctus, I trust you have read much, studied much and are a very intelligent man of God.
But leaving all church organizations out of the picture, we have with us as promised, the Holy Spirit to be our guide until the end of our earthly lives.
If we exercise the love which Christ came to demonstrate to us and let Him work in us, does it matter what denomination we belong to?
No! Because we are the spiritual church of Christ that has no end.
We have fellowship you and I in Him. That is all that matters.
If what you do for the church is where He has led you, then do a good work there.
But if you insist on making Christ second to the church, then we can not have fellowship one with another in Him.
First Christ, then everything else has it's place.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
That is all good study. Good to know. But greater to know and understand is what Jesus really means to you.
He is the savior of your soul, the owner, the captain if you will.
If you trust and rely on Him for your everything, He will abide in your heart forever.
Notice that I mention not another thing apart from Jesus Christ and Him only?
For all the rest is up to you. You worship Him how you please, where ever you please, but do make Him first in all that you do.
Out of respect for His name and all references to Him, I capitalize His Name always.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
At the start............there were no set rules. They developed as they went along.
Jesus' ministry started with 12, as representative of the whole earth. He gave no further instructions except for this one: Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:
Disciples: somebody who strongly believes in the teachings of a leader, a philosophy, or a religion, and tries to act according to them>>>Encarta Dictionary
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
Incorrect. He left them many instructions. He spent three years preparing and training them for their role in the Church
I can deny anybody on earth for there is but one representative on earth that is a witness to Christ.
And that is the Holy Spirit in you!
If He is in you, then you are His representative on earth to all mankind.
Why suppose He says, love your enemies?
Surely Christ already gave us that example on the way to the cross.
Can we be Christ's representative by loving our neighbors, and our enemies?
Why then would we need any person to represent us to God when Jesus is our High Priest?
You know that the veil to the Holiest of Holies was reaped from the top down, allowing all of us entrance where there was none before?
The Pope is doing a fine job at his post as well as you are at your post.
But we are all accountable only to Christ, for He alone owns your soul.
Peace>>>AJ :love9:
Yes, we are all accountable to Christ, and part of that is accepting the Church He founded. The Pope has been chosen by Christ Himself to lead His true Church on the earth. You can offer any opinion you wish to, but if it differs from our faith and from what Christ taught us, it is wrong.
Because to deny the Church of Christ is to deny Christ Himself. You cannot have half the truth as it suits you, such as AJ would like to believe. Either all is true, or all is false. If Christ is
Saviour, than ALL His teachings are truth. It was He, we believe, who established the Church and the papacy. Denying these denies the power of Christ.