Protests across Canada denounce wars in Iraq and Afghanistan

[jimmoyer]

Bringing the USA to its knees is seen as positive by humanity. You should be thinking about a similar second chance for your own nation, I wonder how your judgement would change. You don't seem to have any empathy.
--------------------------------------------Darkbeaver------------------------------------------------

LOL !!

Darkbeaver, you're just another example of this moral righteousness that is much more
motivated by the destruction of the US than it is motivated to give Iraq a fighting second chance.

Like it's some holy grail without question.

Perhaps the only way you can see your own hypocrisy is only after the US is destroyed.

Pass me another toke.

 

[MikeyDB]

Haiti: US Orchastrates Coup, Kidnaps Aristide
by michaelis Wednesday March 03, 2004 at 02:44 AM
Corporate media and the Bush administration would have people believe that the recent revolt in Haiti was the work of oppressed citizens fighting for independence. Documentation of US "involvement" in Haiti, however, tells a different story.

Jean Bertrand Aristide, the democratically elected president of Haiti since 1990, has faced US pressure to resign since the Clinton administration. Haiti, one of the world's poorest nations, currently suffers a US embargo of $500 million foreign aid. Previous US involvement also includes support for dictatorial regimes and efforts to prevent a higher minimum wage.
The opposition, described by the corporate media as "freedom fighters", are actually a US sponsored ruthless and brutal militia, many of whom were involved in the US-backed death squads of the 1991-1994 coup attempt. Louis Jodel Chamblain, a former leader in the FRAPH paramilitary death squad, Guy Philippe, once a police chief, and others were trained in Ecuador by US Special Forces during the previous coup. Many people view Haiti as simply one more example of an illegal CIA orchastrated coup, as it has does so often before. Not surprisingly, these "rebel leaders" have established relationships with Colin Powell and George W. Bush throughout the years.
Cleveland Indy Media Center

Underline emphasis by MikeyDB

“According to Seymour Hersh’s explosive new article in the New Yorker Magazine, it now appears that our tax dollars are being used to fund our arch nemesis, al-Queda. US Covert actions, devoid of any Congressional oversight, include funding radical Sunni groups with possible ties to al Queda, to counterbalance Shiite groups supported by Iran. This grotesque strategy bears a strong resemblance to the US illegal funding of the Contras by revenue generated by illegal arms shipments to Iran during the Reagan years! The Pentagon has been running amuck for years planning covert and clandestine operations under the radar of Congressional and public scrutiny, invariably with disastrous results. It is time to reign in these illegal activities which is raising the ire of much of the world. These new covert operations are certain to inflame the majority of Shias in Iraq and possibly provoke the Saudis to come to the aid of the minority Sunnis in Iraq thus widening the conflict and further destabilizing the whole Middle East.”
Palo Alto Online….American website…

Underline emphasis by MikeyDB

“And tonight I also announce a distinguished American to lead this effort, to strengthen American security: a military veteran, an effective governor, a true patriot, a trusted friend -- Pennsylvania's Tom Ridge. (Applause.) He will lead, oversee and coordinate a comprehensive national strategy to safeguard our country against terrorism, and respond to any attacks that may come.”
“These measures are essential. But the only way to defeat terrorism as a threat to our way of life is to stop it, eliminate it, and destroy it where it grows. (Applause.)”

Underline emphasis by MikeyDB

“We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place, until there is no refuge or no rest. And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. (Applause.)”
George Bush President of the United States of America

“In court documents filed Wednesday, federal prosecutors said the Cincinnati-based company and several unnamed high-ranking corporate officers paid about $1.7 million between 1997 and 2004 to the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia, known as AUC for its Spanish initials.”
MSNBC

The United States at the behest of the American people has engaged in “covert operations”, “regime-change” and arming terrorist organizations around the world….for decades. I’m trying to be brief…but the list of American involvement in decades of war bloodshed and sanctioned terrorism is lengthy.

When will America focus the weight and timber of its outrage against terrorism where it actually belongs, on the “make-a-buck-regardless-of-the-consequences” attitude entrenched in the American practice of capitalism without conscience….as it exists in the corporate board rooms of America and the Whitehouse?

 

[darkbeaver]

Mabudons quote
"It isn't "hate", it's frustration (BTW I am laughing and smiling 99% of the time while reading and posting here, but since I don't use that waving smiley like DB does, I guess the wit is lost on many folks)"



:wave::wave:

 

[Curiosity]

No no of course protests aren't "hate"..... no no

Why they even bring little children to see the love...

 

[jimmoyer]

Mabudons quote
"It isn't "hate", it's frustration (BTW I am laughing and smiling 99% of the time while reading and posting here, but since I don't use that waving smiley like DB does, I guess the wit is lost on many folks)"
------------------------------------Darkbeaver----------------------------------------------

Au contraire !!!

LOL !!

Quien es Darkbeaver ? Loco o cuerdo ???

Hmmm....

 

[darkbeaver]

Bringing the USA to its knees is seen as positive by humanity. You should be thinking about a similar second chance for your own nation, I wonder how your judgement would change. You don't seem to have any empathy.
--------------------------------------------Darkbeaver------------------------------------------------

LOL !!

Darkbeaver, you're just another example of this moral righteousness that is much more
motivated by the destruction of the US than it is motivated to give Iraq a fighting second chance.

Like it's some holy grail without question.

Perhaps the only way you can see your own hypocrisy is only after the US is destroyed.

Pass me another toke.

Your perspective blinds you to the reality of life Jim. What I see is history, you speak as if you we're in heaven, and that's the old disease of Imperial hypocrisy. You are a replicant of that fatally flawed condition. I do not invent rules I only observe them.

 

[Curiosity]

JimMoyer

El es un tipo chistoso..... lol

 

[MikeyDB]

Jim

When do you suppose America and those of its "allies"...a term fraught with inconsistency and double-meaning....take Pakistan for instance....will stop picking up the tab for American political and economic manipulation? When wil you demand that the foreign policies of your government reflect your wish for peace instead of the fifty-years long appetite for political and economic supremacy ...regardless of the billions it's costing Americans and the new red paint spent by Americans ...the blood of its "allies" in the effort to re-paint the world in a shade more "available" to American commerce and greed?

 

[darkbeaver]

Bringing the USA to its knees is seen as positive by humanity. You should be thinking about a similar second chance for your own nation, I wonder how your judgement would change. You don't seem to have any empathy.
--------------------------------------------Darkbeaver------------------------------------------------

LOL !!

Darkbeaver, you're just another example of this moral righteousness that is much more
motivated by the destruction of the US than it is motivated to give Iraq a fighting second chance.

Like it's some holy grail without question.

Perhaps the only way you can see your own hypocrisy is only after the US is destroyed.

Pass me another toke.

Your perspective blinds you to the reality of life Jim. What I see is history, you speak as if you we're in heaven, and that's the old disease of Imperial hypocrisy. You are a replicant of that fatally flawed condition. I do not invent the situations nor the rules that apply I only observe them. The telling words you often use are "a second chance for Iraq" so you are at once judge, executioner, and a redeeming god, talk no more of hypocrisy your's is deafening.:smile:

 

[MikeyDB]

There were no "twin-towers" in any of the nations in which America has practiced its "foreign policy"...from Pinochet and Suharto to Marcos and all over this planet.

People are Anti-American because your Chief and Commander has reminded us all that the roots of oppression and domination at the hands of dictators and mad-men has unavoidable connections with American industry and the willingness of the people of the United States to practice war while other alternatives demanding patience and skill don't acheive the desired results quickly enough to appease the appetites of Americans....

Are you and Curiosity suggesting that America has no responsibility in the canvas of terrorism and destruction that anyone can see as the product of American industry readily exported to third-world nations? Are you seriously convinced that America has no responsibility other than to its own goals and the rest of the world is simply there for the taking....regardless of the ramifications?

 

[Curiosity]

Mikey

Are you now saying the protest marches in Canada were anti-American?

My point on this little exercise was to point out the "hate" aspect of all protest marches when Sanctus compared them with Dr. Martin Luther King's Peace Marches during the Civil Rights Movement.

I was arguing there is no comparison when the marchers are preaching hatred.....

 

[MikeyDB]

Hi Curio

Is it wrong to hate war? Is it wrong to hate those who practice war while being disingenuous and attempting to color themselves as victims...while practicing terrorism all over the planet?

 

[MikeyDB]

It wasn't Canadians who killed students at Kent State....we're too busy protecting the investors and money-men from native Canadians who still believe that you can make a deal with the Canadian government and the Canadian people that will be honored...

We are American....prepared to lie and behave in ways diametrically opposed to the "philosophies" we pay lip service to...

 

[EagleSmack]

How can anyone support either wars? Iraq was started on a big fat lie and in Afghantan there would be no Taliban if the US had not armed them to the hilt in the first place. Ben Laden would not be, although now they say he is dead, if the US and the CIA had not trained and used him.
Has nobody learned from the war in Vietman. The people of both these countries and like the Vietmanese, they have lived with war and death for hundreds of years caused by dictators and invaders. They do not mind the death when cause by one of their own but not from outsiders.
I posted this before, the history of Afghanistan:http://www.afghangovernment.com/briefhistory.htm
The people will do not want outsiders (invaders) in their countries.
Now the US are trying to stir up a mess with NKorea and Iran, when will it end. NKorea and Iran have said they are arming because if the US can attack a country on a big fat lie they could be next. No one can blame them for the way they think because both have past history of US meddling in their countries.
In both cases war is not the answer and causes nothing but bloodshed of the people and our troops. Our politicians seem to be unable to think of alternate ways to help. The people in these countries do need help but on their terms and not ours. You cannot force people to accept your ways when they don't have the faintest idea what that is. We need to help them in their mode.
Our soldiers are dying and been injured in these wars but have you noticed none of these politicians have any family on the front lines. I wonder how long these wars would last if the did!
Politicians will not end these wars unless pushed by the people because they like the "glory" of war. What a croc? Our soldiers support the war because they are doing a job they were trained for, however some a beginning to talk out against it.
It is a shame that anyone who is anti war is being labelled as not supporting the troops. Has anyone thought that this is because the pro war people cannot justify the war in the first place.

Another great myth. The Taliban was not even around during the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan. The Taliban was formed from refugees in camps in Pakistan and most of the Taliban was too young to fight against the Soviets. They emmerged AFTER the withdrawl of Soviet troops and during the Civil War.

Bin Laden was never trained by the CIA and has always hated the US. During the Soviet Invasion he was kept away from CIA operatives because of his outspoken hatred towards them and the US. The Afghan Rebels decided to keep Bin Laden away from any Americans because they did not want him screwing things up such as deliveries of Stinger AA missles and supplies.

 

[EagleSmack]

what i would like someone who supports these wars to do is give me a good, solid reason why we have soldiers in those places. never mind this bogus talk about 'defending freedom"..but actually what the heck is iraq and afghanistan all about, anyway????

LOL... are you serious? I can see your point about Iraq but are you saying that the US should never have gone into Afghanistan?

 

[EagleSmack]

well, as just one citizen of the world, let me just say to the usa, no thanks..save yourselves and leave the rest of us alone. maybe when they can practice what they preach, and the american people are truly free to live in peace inside the country, then they can worry about the rest of the world.half the reason the usa was attacked is their own fault in the first place for interfering.

So we deserved 9/11? 3000 people deserved to be killed? Well at least we know where you stand.

Did you find enjoyment on that day?

 

[mabudon]

I should repeat this question since it seems to be similar to the leading one posed just above-
Were anti apartheid protests Anti Africanism ??? Were they hateful?? a LOT of folks believed that the Apartheid "system" was good, and why not if you benefitted from it right??

I FULL WELL know why no-one will touch this question, but I will repeat it til I get an answer

 

[MikeyDB]

“As anyone who has bothered to read this far certainly knows by now, bin Laden is the heir to Saudi construction fortune who, at least since the early 1990s, has used that money to finance countless attacks on U.S. interests and those of its Arab allies around the world.
As his unclassified CIA biography states, bin Laden left Saudi Arabia to fight the Soviet army in Afghanistan after Moscow’s invasion in 1979. By 1984, he was running a front organization known as Maktab al-Khidamar - the MAK - which funneled money, arms and fighters from the outside world into the Afghan war.
What the CIA bio conveniently fails to specify (in its unclassified form, at least) is that the MAK was nurtured by Pakistan’s state security services, the Inter-Services Intelligence agency, or ISI, the CIA’s primary conduit for conducting the covert war against Moscow’s occupation.
By no means was Osama bin Laden the leader of Afghanistan’s mujahedeen. His money gave him undue prominence in the Afghan struggle, but the vast majority of those who fought and died for Afghanistan’s freedom - like the Taliban regime that now holds sway over most of that tortured nation - were Afghan nationals.
Yet the CIA, concerned about the factionalism of Afghanistan made famous by Rudyard Kipling, found that Arab zealots who flocked to aid the Afghans were easier to “read” than the rivalry-ridden natives. While the Arab volunteers might well prove troublesome later, the agency reasoned, they at least were one-dimensionally anti-Soviet for now. So bin Laden, along with a small group of Islamic militants from Egypt, Pakistan, Lebanon, Syria and Palestinian refugee camps all over the Middle East, became the “reliable” partners of the CIA in its war against Moscow.”

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1245.htm

Thanks for the insight Eaglesmack….

 

[Curiosity]

As an aside here before I get my shoes on and head for work....

AlQaeda have taken responsibility in a press release today for the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole and the U.S. Embassies in Africa. Perhaps they wanted to have a war dya think?

Surprise? Not really.

 

[darkbeaver]

So we deserved 9/11? 3000 people deserved to be killed? Well at least we know where you stand.

Did you find enjoyment on that day?

Deserve is a complicated word. But as a common rule we deserve what we deliver or we reap what we sow, there are many ways to arrive at the same point, if you are to reap what you have sown the three thousand does not represent even a small fraction of what is owed the reaper. Maybe you should ask if a million and a half Iraqis deserved to die, I know much of the world has examined that question, a question Americans seem to be unable to ask.