The All-american Gun

Stretch

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Feb 16, 2003
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Cramer proves that guns aren't inherently the problem. In our day, criminals may have replaced Indians as a danger facing most citizens, but it may also shock many readers to learn how comfortable Americans once were with their guns.
In colonial times, as Cramer argues, people didn't own guns just for hunting. Numerous laws mandated that people have guns for personal defense and defense of the community, at home, while traveling and even in church. Heads of households, whether men or women, were required to have a gun at home and fines of up to a month's wages were imposed on those who failed to meet this requirement.

Posted Mar 16, 2007 10:15 AM PST
Category: RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS


I grew up in a town in New Hampshire where taking a gun to school was considered normal, because you might be "varminting" the crops on the way back home or joining an older family member to shoot a little extra meat for dinner. My grandfather (the one who used to hoist a few with Dick Nixon) had a recipe for Venison mincemeat pie that started, "Step 1: Shoot a deer!" Everyone got their first rifle at age 12, and gun safety was the second religion. We didn't have to worry about drive-by shootings; anyone foolish enough to try such a stunt would have been instantly dead.
The current culture of crime blossomed when people were tricked into surrendering their own self-defense and allowed themselves to become dependent on a government with questionable motives for assuming such control of our lives.
All hype aside, the numbers speak for themselves. Where the people have guns, crime is low. Where guns are banned, crime is rampant.
Great Britain enacted a total gun ban supposedly in the name of public safety. Crime went up, including home invasions and attacks on the elderly. But the government of Great Britain, obviously more concerned with keeping the subjects helpless than safe kept the gun ban on the premise that British subjects BELIEVED they were safer with it, even though they were not. Every year in the US, lawful gun owners prevent millions of crimes. Millions! The police do not prevent any crimes. They show up afterwards, act official, clean up the mess, collect their paychecks full of tax dollars and go home. Between the low convictions rate and high recidivism, the current police force seems little more than costumed show, suited to writing tickets to extort money from traffic offenders, and certainly far removed form the mythical crime-solving abilities of TV shows.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/0311200...american_gun_postopbooks_john_r__lott_jr_.htm
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Great article Stretch, but could you elaborate on this for me...?

criminals may have replaced Indians as a danger facing most citizens

This can not be contemporarily speaking?
 

missile

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Dec 1, 2004
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Amusing to me is the fact that the All American Gun {Winchester] is now assembled in China. John Wayne is spinning in his grave:evil3:
 

Pangloss

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Mar 16, 2007
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Oh, boy - I'm gonna get blasted on this one. . .

Long guns are not a problem - we all know that. But in countries where there are restrictions on handguns, total gun deaths are lower.

Why?

Kids can't get their hands on Dad or Mom's improperly secured weapon and accidently blow their siblings heads off.

That happens more - in America - than homeowners shooting criminals.

Ok, I'll run for cover now. . .

Pangloss

postscript: I handle guns for a living (among other things, I am a weapons safety guy for stage productions). I like shooting guns. I like archery. I also like making my choices based on facts.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Oct 1, 2004
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Cramer proves that guns aren't inherently the problem.
...
All hype aside, the numbers speak for themselves. Where the people have guns, crime is low. Where guns are banned, crime is rampant.
...
Every year in the US, lawful gun owners prevent millions of crimes. Millions!

I'd immediately agree that guns aren't inherently the problem, but the other two statements are the kind of obfuscation and hyperbole that always cloud this debate. He makes these sweeping dramatic claims, provides no evidence to support them, and considers the case proven. The first one, " Where the people have guns, crime is low. Where guns are banned, crime is rampant," is not generally true. Both the United States and South Africa have relatively high levels of gun ownership and relatively high crime rates compared to other so-called "developed" countries, for instance, but I'm inclined to think that's a spurious correlation and it's not valid to impute a cause and effect relationship in any case. It seems pretty clear that things like poverty and the existence of a large, disenfranchised under-class are the major contributors to crime, not gun ownership or the lack of it. That's just an attempt to reduce difficult and complex social issues into simple black and white terms (and no, my American friends, I don't mean that racially). The second claim, that "lawful gun owners prevent millions of crimes," is something I don't believe he can possibly know. Who keeps track of stuff like that? Do lawful gun owners report crimes they prevent to the local sheriff or the FBI or something, and then somebody collates all those reports into an annual statistical study that proves the claim? Not likely.

There is a legitimate debate about gun control. We had it in this country (that's Canada) a few years ago and came up with what I think is a completely wrong, stupid, and useless answer, a gun registry that by its nature can track only the lawful gun owners. A lot of other people agree with me, so the debate goes on, and it'll probably go on 'til the end of time. But that essay is not a useful contribution to it.
 

Pangloss

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Mar 16, 2007
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Amusing to me is the fact that the All American Gun {Winchester] is now assembled in China. John Wayne is spinning in his grave:evil3:

John Wayne never served; John Wayne was a racist; John Wayne wrote some of the most frightening letters to three U.S. presidents.

If John Wayne is spinning in his grave, may he spin 'till he reaches the kindling point.

Pangloss
 

Pangloss

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Mar 16, 2007
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Amazing, is there nothing those commies won't steal?:)

DarkBeaver:

"Commies" stole nothing - Winchester went with the lowest bid for labour and materials. You wanna blame someone, blame either Winchester or Americans demand to have as much as they can for as little as they can pay.

Wal-Mart. That's the nut of my argument: Wal-Mart.

Pangloss
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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Oh, boy - I'm gonna get blasted on this one. . .

Long guns are not a problem - we all know that. But in countries where there are restrictions on handguns, total gun deaths are lower.

Why?

Kids can't get their hands on Dad or Mom's improperly secured weapon and accidently blow their siblings heads off.

That happens more - in America - than homeowners shooting criminals.

Ok, I'll run for cover now. . .

Pangloss

postscript: I handle guns for a living (among other things, I am a weapons safety guy for stage productions). I like shooting guns. I like archery. I also like making my choices based on facts.

Oh BALONEY!

I was brought up around guns of all types, including handguns.

I've been a recreational shooter using handguns for more than 30 years.

I was president of a gun club for 5 years.

Part of my job is to train armoured car guards in self-defense with handguns.

I have known over many years many hundreds of people that own and use handguns.

I have NEVER heard of a single one, or a family member, that was injured with a handgun. NOT ONCE!

Yes, I know you could come up with an isolated example or two.........BIG DEAL!

If there were no automobiles, there would be no collisions.....

If there were no backyard swimming pools, there would be nobody drowned in them.

If there was no freedom of action or choice, we could all be safe.

Get my point?

By the way, the best research shows Americans use handguns well over a million times a year to defend themselves...............in the vast majority of cases (over 95%) they don't fire a shot. Google Gary Kleck. Read him. Or John Lott.

You are misguided.
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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Oh, boy - I'm gonna get blasted on this one. . .

Long guns are not a problem - we all know that. But in countries where there are restrictions on handguns, total gun deaths are lower.

Why?

Kids can't get their hands on Dad or Mom's improperly secured weapon and accidently blow their siblings heads off.

That happens more - in America - than homeowners shooting criminals.

Ok, I'll run for cover now. . .

Pangloss

postscript: I handle guns for a living (among other things, I am a weapons safety guy for stage productions). I like shooting guns. I like archery. I also like making my choices based on facts.



See, in my family, seeing as you were trained on Gun safety at about 8 and given a .22 at 12, there really wasn't much chance of accidentally blowing someones head off.

Raising your child to be ignorant of guns is the problem. Can you imagine the dangers if you never taught your child how to use a knife (for its practical uses) and the first time he found one he was 8 after having watched Kill Bill trailers? Three missing fingers later...

The gun is just a metal tube that makes a big noise and sends a metal lump flying out one end. Its been demonized way too much, as if when suddenly holding one..people become wreathed in hellfire and the voices of a thousand devils whisper in their ears to run amok and drink the blood of the innocent. Its just a tool.
 

Pangloss

Council Member
Mar 16, 2007
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Oh BALONEY!


I have NEVER heard of a single one, or a family member, that was injured with a handgun. NOT ONCE!

Yes, I know you could come up with an isolated example or two.........BIG DEAL!

If there were no automobiles, there would be no collisions.....

If there were no backyard swimming pools, there would be nobody drowned in them.

If there was no freedom of action or choice, we could all be safe.

Get my point?

By the way, the best research shows Americans use handguns well over a million times a year to defend themselves...............in the vast majority of cases (over 95%) they don't fire a shot. Google Gary Kleck. Read him. Or John Lott.

You are misguided.

Baloney? Baloney?

Oh, Colpy - it is you who will not look at the unmassaged numbers: there is far too much documentation that it is far more dangerous to have a gun in your house than not - especially if there are children present.

And the adults who do get shot during break-ins? More than half the time they are shot with their own gun. Yup.

Sure, well trained shooters that store their guns properly are no problem. Just as good drivers are not the problem on our highways.

It is the idiots who are the problem. And the lazy. And there has never been a shortage of them.

You've never heard of someone shot in their house with their own gun? It happens - less frequently in Canada than the States, but it does happen here. I'm wondering how you've missed the stories.

The ironic argument about diminishing our freedoms to make ourselves safer: I agree with you that this is a stupid way to deal with risk. To a certain measure, freedom does equal exposure to risk; more accurately, it equals assuming responsibility for one's own well being.

I'm all for it.

I am also for using plain, unspun, non-lobby-driven facts when I make decisions about how to live. From either side.

Sure, keep a gun in your house. Say you want to use it to protect yourself from bad people trying to break into your home. Just do not claim that that gun makes you safer.

'Cause it don't.

Pangloss
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
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Pangloss hahaha

I thought you would at least get in line behind Michael Moore and his reviled "expose" of guns in K-Mart hahaha......

After all Harris ahd Kleibold probably never entered a K-Mart in their lives coming from the upper classes who had all manner of armament in their homes..... but that was the basis of Columbine....
in Mickey's fantasy....

The two little spoiled bullies were taken by the Goth style and e-games.... not guns... guns were their portable weapon for their mission in "outer space" or whever they two spoiled brats cared to go.

Know what killed the kids at Columbine? Neglecting parental supervision....substituting toys for love.

Wal-Mart? Huh? where are you going with that one? The "nut" of your argument is a sesame seed.

You debate so well.....how could you not do your homework?
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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DarkBeaver:

"Commies" stole nothing - Winchester went with the lowest bid for labour and materials. You wanna blame someone, blame either Winchester or Americans demand to have as much as they can for as little as they can pay.

Wal-Mart. That's the nut of my argument: Wal-Mart.

Pangloss

Thankyou for straightening me out.:lol: