German Court Bans Head Scarves

[Ariadne]

in my school we have lots of muslims and the teachers and everybody goes out of their way to please them. makes me angry. i took to wearing a big crucifix for a well cos it irritated them. one of the teachers asked me to put it inside my shirt and i refused cos i said its not fair if they can wear their funny outfits and show off being muslim i can wear a crucifix. my mom actually backed me. i took it off after a few months cos i felt like a hypocrite cos i dont even know wha i believe and i certainly am not yet any kind of christian.

I think that's great. If one teacher wants to wear a funny hat, why doesn't everyone else make an entire mockery of it and all wear head scarves covered with symbols of whatever dark or holy beliefs they have. How long will it be until the school is no longer a place to learn, but just a place where people where their personal beliefs on their heads?

 

[Ariadne]

im in ontario and we learned about ramadan and some jewish holiday that i cant remember right now, the one that comes around christmas.

I don't have time to search for the Ontario curriculum right now, but here's the Alberta one: http://www.education.gov.ab.ca/k_12/curriculum/bysubject/
There's certainly nothing about learning religious habits here.

 

[mapleleafgirl]

I don't have time to search for the Ontario curriculum right now, but here's the Alberta one: http://www.education.gov.ab.ca/k_12/curriculum/bysubject/
There's certainly nothing about learning religious habits here.

they dont call it religious habits in social studies-they call it world vustoms of other people or something like that.my teacher said it is learning tolerance and respect for other beliefs but we arent allowed to talk about jesus or christian holidays or stuff or beliefs.

 

[Curiosity]

A couple of years back.... we were discussing the Kirpan....

Regarding a student who was given permission to wear his Kirpan to public school..... I believe he won the case....

What if a teacher wore a Kirpan at his waist .... would the same principle apply to that particular "religious symbolism" as a "headscarf"?

Both passive and personal?

If wearing a headscarf "isn't a big deal" according to some, why should teachers choose to create chaos in the workplace? Rules of the workplace are known prior to securing employment....stick to them or leave.

I think every secular school paid for by the taxpayers under government regulation should be considered just that: secular .... and personal adornment of a sacred nature be omitted while classes are in session.

 

[MagnoliaApples]

I thought school was a place where young people were allowed to figure out their identities; who they are as individuals, what they believe about others, themselves and the environment around them. They are supposed to be exposed to different ideas so that they can decide FOR THEMSELVES what they feel is right or wrong. The curriculum has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

We are talking about a head scarf. What harm is there in a woman wearing a head scarf. Kids aren't allowed to wear baseball hats in schools because kids were getting beaten up over them so they got rid of them. When i was in school the boys were allowed to wear hats. It was only until much later that they stopped the whole hat thing because of the problems it created. There is reasonable cause in that decision. No one wants to see kids stabbed at school. But not allowing a teacher to wear her head scarf is discrimination - ESPECIALLY if it's prevented because of her religion.

What are we saying to our kids when we express intolerance to someone of a different culture? Are we saying that it's okay to be ridgid in our beliefs and that anyone who is culturally different doesn't deserve the basic understanding and respect that is (apparently) owed to us with our own beliefs?

I would rather my kid learn to tolerate and respect people of other cultures and religions than to learn intolerance and have them expect that others must conform to the almighty western "culture". The culture of excess, egoism and greed. The culture of Me, Myself and I.

If we were to project into the future, it doesn't take a genius to see that the future belongs to those who know how to respect people of many and any culture and deal with them in a genuinely kind way because as i see it, our world is increasingly diverse as the years goes by. I think we are clearly sabotaging our childrens future by teaching them intolerance and conformity. Talk about taking a giant leap backwards!!

P.S - I think some of the replies and attitudes in this thread completely demonstrate why we are living in a 'cultureless' society. We don't want or allow anyone to have one.

 

[Andem]

Why is it all of a sudden wrong for a state to enforce it's will and all of a sudden so right for Canada to force multiculturalism upon it's population? You people never quit, I'm sure you'd love to see the demise of Christian/Western values and a fall of the Western world to third world intolerance.

Borders are falling all over the world. We are becoming a global village. All this crap about traditional western values is history. All countries are multicultural wether they like it or not. Goverments are trying to be inclusive not exclusive. The falling birth rate in the west demands that we open our doors to immigration to prop up our social programs and infrastructure. To attract first class immigrants we need to offer an inclusive and open culture or else all we will get is the low class ones. No doctors, no middle businessmen just dirt poor refugees.

Have you gone nuts? You actually think it's a good idea to merge the first the third worlds? It astounds me how many people actually buy into this 'we need immigrants' arguement.

 

[tracy]

I don't want to see the demise of western values. Those are my values too (I don't call them Christian, but they are my values nonetheless). I just have more faith in them than some others do. I don't believe a woman covering her hair is a threat to my culture. My niece still has Xmas holidays from school and they still have their Xmas pageant, they still get Easter off and do their Easter crafts, people still say Merry Xmas to me when I'm out... I just don't see the serious threat to Christianity that so many others do. The nuts who complain about Xtianity in public life are generally seen as nuts. The US and Canada are both overwhelmingly Christian. Most positions of power are held by Christians in North America. The Prime Minister, the President, most members of parliament, the senate, the congress, judges, lawyers, etc. are Christian, so I don't understand this persecution complex that Christians seem to have.

Our values will survive because they are worthwhile. They are the right values to have. They are consistent with modern life. They won't die because a woman wears a scarf or a hat or a wig.

 

[Curiosity]

Tracy

This was about a German school system not Canada's.

European nations have had more attacks by muslim groups than Canada has experienced. They also have a higher ratio of muslims to Christian people living with them.

Perhaps they are more cautious. Perhaps Canadians would feel more cautious if they had the same experiences as some Euro nations....

 

[Tonington]

Well, unless our government falls and there is some sort of marshal law, I'm not to worried about proportions of whatever ethnic people we have here. Our secular laws prevent ruling based on religion. As far as as culture and values, as I said before it's not the place of teachers or government for that matter to promote these things. This area to me belongs within the familly.

That said, the whole political correctness has gone too far I think. Christmas trees being banned, is just ridiculous. Why some might ask. Well Christmas has very little to do with the Religious fabric it was created by. Christmas as a season starts in November now, and has very little to do with the birth of Christ. I wonder if a Saturnalia festival would recieve the same treatment...

 

[tamarin]

Western life is under threat because it is so blaise about what it is and what it should stand for. Muslims as they concentrate in Europe and as their numbers increase in Canada will find fertile ground for cultural expansion. They will meet a system blissfully ignorant of what aggressive assemblages can do. "We hope you'll be nice' really doesn't cut it as a mission statement anymore.

 

[tracy]

Tracy

This was about a German school system not Canada's.

European nations have had more attacks by muslim groups than Canada has experienced. They also have a higher ratio of muslims to Christian people living with them.

Perhaps they are more cautious. Perhaps Canadians would feel more cautious if they had the same experiences as some Euro nations....

Perhaps. I don't know... I see the same hysteria here in North America, particularly when people look at Toronto and Vancouver where I'm sure the majority are minorities. I just don't believe our culture is so weak that any minority group can significantly change it. This particular German state apparently has 2 teachers who cover their hair with hats. That isn't exactly an invasion in my mind.

 

[selfactivated]

I dont think Ive heard such hypocracy and bigotry on this board especially by woman! Is christianity the ONLY religion worth fighting for? No its not. ALL people have a right to their belief system weather you believe it or not.

As for no boaders I strongly believe at some point in the future we will have no borders and we WILL have conpassion with each other! If I gotta beat it into ya

 

[tamarin]

I'm always surprised when people view exceptions as unimportant. It's the thin wedge in the door. Canada's chief cities are predominantly visible minority now, a huge change from the early 70's when only 1% of the population met this profile. What you allow is what you get. If you accede to Muslim exceptionality time will prove it the norm. Canada has benefited enormously from its new immigrants but certain groups as in Toronto have been a huge drain on the public purse.
Self-activated a no borders policy is suicide for western culture.

 

[sanctus]

Western life is under threat because it is so blaise about what it is and what it should stand for. Muslims as they concentrate in Europe and as their numbers increase in Canada will find fertile ground for cultural expansion. They will meet a system blissfully ignorant of what aggressive assemblages can do. "We hope you'll be nice' really doesn't cut it as a mission statement anymore.

Do you really feel we are in such danger in Canada? It seems to me that the best way to retain our values, if they are so important to us, is to start living by them as our standard of behaviour. For example, if Christianity is your "bag", then be a Christian. If Scientology is your thing, be a good Scientologist. The root of all these groups is primarily the same.The point I'm trying to make is we cannot hide our heads in the sand and pretend these people do not exist.

 

[selfactivated]

I'm always surprised when people view exceptions as unimportant. It's the thin wedge in the door. Canada's chief cities are predominantly visible minority now, a huge change from the early 70's when only 1% of the population met this profile. What you allow is what you get. If you accede to Muslim exceptionality time will prove it the norm. Canada has benefited enormously from its new immigrants but certain groups as in Toronto have been a huge drain on the public purse.
Self-activated a no borders policy is suicide for western culture.

Yes your right it is. But what it opens up has the potential of a positive world wide society. People are just afraid of change.

 

[sanctus]

I'm always surprised when people view exceptions as unimportant. It's the thin wedge in the door. Canada's chief cities are predominantly visible minority now, a huge change from the early 70's when only 1% of the population met this profile. What you allow is what you get. If you accede to Muslim exceptionality time will prove it the norm. Canada has benefited enormously from its new immigrants but certain groups as in Toronto have been a huge drain on the public purse.
Self-activated a no borders policy is suicide for western culture.

So, how do we rectify this? How far do we go? Do we allow all whites in, or just Protestant ones? Or Catholic ones? Germans, or Italians? Do we want Eastern European people here? Aren't there already too many of them? Where do we draw our lines in the sand as to who is and who is not acceptable to come to Canada?

 

[earth_as_one]

I'm a little confused. First of all, why is it so important for the religions of the Middle East to be taught in German schools? Secondly, a teaching environment should be openly communicative. Furthermore, teachers are role models. If the teachers are permitted to hide their bodies and most of their heads with draped cloth, how are children supposed to read the teacher? When I say read the teacher, I mean it in the most common meaning of the term - where we read people's body language and full facial expressions all the time.

Does this ban apply to teachers who teach online?

If its so important for teachers not to hide anything, then maybe they should teach without clothes. If my teachers were nude, I think I might have paid more attention in class.

C'mon, this is poorly disguised bigotry. If people can wear hats, habits, tacky plaid suits... while teaching, then why not
headscarves???

 

[earth_as_one]

I'm always surprised when people view exceptions as unimportant. It's the thin wedge in the door. Canada's chief cities are predominantly visible minority now, a huge change from the early 70's when only 1% of the population met this profile. What you allow is what you get. If you accede to Muslim exceptionality time will prove it the norm. Canada has benefited enormously from its new immigrants but certain groups as in Toronto have been a huge drain on the public purse.
Self-activated a no borders policy is suicide for western culture.

I am proud of Canada's multi-culturalism. We are a tolerant society. I think everyone should be able to behave according to their culture and follow their religion to the point where it affects someone else's safety, security or liberty.

For example, wearing a burka should be allowed, unless you have a job where its a safety hazard, such as:
Firefighter
Scuba diver
Heavy Duty diesel mechanic
Chorus line show girl
etc

 

[karrie]

Do you really feel we are in such danger in Canada? It seems to me that the best way to retain our values, if they are so important to us, is to start living by them as our standard of behaviour. For example, if Christianity is your "bag", then be a Christian. If Scientology is your thing, be a good Scientologist. The root of all these groups is primarily the same.The point I'm trying to make is we cannot hide our heads in the sand and pretend these people do not exist.

I find it phenomenal that I went to school with more Jews, Muslims, and Sikhs when I went to Catholic school than public. I learned more about their cultures there than anywhere else. How is it that a religion typically viewed by people as bigotted, could be more accepting of other religions than the general public? To me, THAT is practising Christian values, not the views some in this thread are putting forth of a Canada that should all look and act one way.

 

[Colpy]

I am proud of Canada's multi-culturalism. We are a tolerant society. I think everyone should be able to behave according to their culture and follow their religion to the point where it affects someone else's safety, security or liberty.

For example, wearing a burka should be allowed, unless you have a job where its a safety hazard, such as:
Firefighter
Scuba diver
Heavy Duty diesel mechanic
Chorus line show girl
etc

"Chorus line show girl"? That cracked me up.

I would agree that the burka should be allowed on the streets, I am not one for the gov't dictating dress codes for people on their own time.

However, the act of wearing a Burka screams "I DON'T BELONG IN A TOLERANT SOCIETY"

Also in the schools they are being paid by the gov't...........the gov't dictates what the dress code, same as I have to wear a uniform. Don't like it? Find another job.

I do think banning headscarves is taking it a little far.