The One True Church
- Thread starter sanctus
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You haven't had enough coffee yet, have ya? lol
When I saw you posted something in this thread, I eagerly clicked to see a deep thought by ITN. Boy was I dissappointed.:wave: lol
Your post was still funny though.
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No I haven't had coffee yet, lol.
But I stand by my statement. God doesn't have "representatives".
But I stand by my statement. God doesn't have "representatives".
I'm Protestant. My wife is Catholic, my son was baptized into the Catholic (I don't care - its all the same to me), and I've attended more Catholic services than any other denomination over the past 20 years. But I find the Catholic church a little odd. I don't understand why all the little rituals are so important.
I've been to the Vatican. It is the most spectacular building I have ever seen. There is immense wealth at the Church, which seems a contradiction to me considering the teachings of the Church.
That's not to slag Catholicism in particular. For example, up until a few generations ago, the Baptist church reinforced segregation here in the South. I'm just wary of any organized religion. Organized religion is a man-made institution, not a God-made one. And many organized religions have undertaken actions that I cannot believe God would sanction.
So I don't buy this "there is only one-true church" argument.
I've been to the Vatican. It is the most spectacular building I have ever seen. There is immense wealth at the Church, which seems a contradiction to me considering the teachings of the Church.
That's not to slag Catholicism in particular. For example, up until a few generations ago, the Baptist church reinforced segregation here in the South. I'm just wary of any organized religion. Organized religion is a man-made institution, not a God-made one. And many organized religions have undertaken actions that I cannot believe God would sanction.
So I don't buy this "there is only one-true church" argument.
The proof is:
IF you are a Catholic, and believe the scripture
THEN you believe the Catholic Church is the "one true church".
Exactly my point.
There is, and cannot be, any "proof". Anyone who claims they have proof does not understand "proof". It all hinges on belief.
The Church is not a human construct. You seek an answer that can only come from the source documents of the Church and the faith itself. Further, the Church exists as God intends it to be. In that manner, it does not seek nor require approval from outside sources to justify its existence or its claims.
I am sorry that this is not, I suspect, the answer you seek, but it is the only one I have.
Your needs may indeed be great. Not knowing you I cannot say. I can say that your assumptions on my behaviour with my parish would be inaccurate.
As well, any clergyman in any denomination is required, by the structure of that denomination, to minister to his flock. In other words, my chief duty as pastor is to care for those entrusted to my care. They are the ones whose needs I am most concerned about.
For you, or others, I am open to those seeking answers and who ask questions in a sincere, non-confrontational manner. But it is not my chief duty to evangelize for the Church. Share the faith, yes. Defend the faith, to a point. Convince non-Catholics to accept our doctrines? Never.
We are what we are, and we owe justification for that to God alone.
If you have sincere questions you would like me to address, ask them. Do so either on a forum or PM me at your discretion.
Know that I make no apology for what I believe or what the Church teaches. Like all belief systems, of any denomination or pagan sect, either you accept it or you do not. No amount of source posting from me or anyone else for that matter, can convince you to change a mind already set against Church doctrine.For that, one needs, I suspect, a clear mind and a seeking heart.
And more accurately, faith. Faith, that ever increasingly unpopular word in a society that seeks to conform every insitution to a secular viewpoint, even the Church.
If this is what you've based your arguement on, you will lose sorely.
I am God, I say. Now I will go forth and write my scriptures and have some of my friends write accounts of my miracles. Like melting steel with simple tools and build magnificent structures. Turning paper in to cash on Fridays, turning said cash into wine on Saturdays.
See I'm the one true God, my church, "The Church of the Holy Torch and Latter Day Welders", will be the one true church.
Then again, I can say my welding company is the best welding company in the world, and it is the one true welding company, but then I could get in trouble for false advertising.
Get the picture yet.
Be happy with who you worship, honour your beliefs. Do not negate others religion or faith by saying something that says their faith is wrong. That just fosters hate.
The beginning of Christian faith is the belief that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and died on the cross for our redemption. If that beginning belief is not accepted, the rest becomes a house of cards that will fall in the wind.
Saying that, we assume that the traditions and Scriptures of the church to be true.That being the case, we know that Jesus founded the Church. Not the CHURCHES,but the church.
Does salvation in Christ exist outside the Church? Of course it does, God in His mercy has provided for those outside of the care of the Holy Father to find their way to Him if that seeker is sincere.
Are other denominations Christian? Yes, to a point, but we teach they exist in a state of imapired communion due to their rejection of parts or all of the Catholic faith.
Would I share in prayers with those outside of the Church? Yes, with other bodies of Christians, but not with those who would reject Christ who is the beginning and end of all Church doctrines.
No, it does not. It fosters understanding. You assume because of what we believe that our beliefs preach hatred. There are not two ways of looking at the Church. Either you believe or you do not. There are no grey areas here for us as Christians. The Church is, and always has been, exclusive to those who believe in Christ and accept His Church as the normative means of salvation.
Outside the Church, I cannot say to what level of faith others do or do not have. But God is not open to individual opinion. God is. If we accept first that Jesus was/is the Son of God, than we must also accept all the rest of the Bible as equally true. There are no half-measures. As I wrote, one either believes, or does not.
Does not preach hate?
"The one true church"
Please explain how that would be taken by any other religion or church?
That statement alone preaches loudly about how the church breads intolerance, your words only fuel that intolerance.
The ONLY way to salvation is to follow your set of religous rules. That is what you just said. So the rest of us are damned if we do not accept Christ in to our hearts?
Hmmmm, tell me agin where the tolerance is?
That is what you say. I respect your priviledge to disagree. Time does not permit me, I am afraid, to delve further into this right now. Not an evasion, but today is a busy day for me...you might say my busiest work day, and I must get offline soon
No that is not what I say.That is what you say. I respect your priviledge to disagree. Time does not permit me, I am afraid, to delve further into this right now. Not an evasion, but today is a busy day for me...you might say my busiest work day, and I must get offline soon
That is what the context of the statement "the one true church" says. It says all others are false. How does that bread tolerance?
It doesn't. It fosters intolerance. That is not an opinion, that is a fact. Look at the world, look at this board. There are people here who think Bush is on a Christian crusade because of off hand comments about doing Gods work. Look at the reaction to the Popes speach on Islam.
Mere words can have more power then swords.
I don't know the DNA comparisons for modern man......
But there is scientific proof we are all varying degrees in our basic life systems - our DNA is unique or cannot be matched with another throughout the world's population except for a very minor possibility.
Therefore how can there be "one church" for such a variety of humanity - as faith would be the core of
the life would it not?
If one church was the "answer" we would have nothing of the beloved variations on a theme of which we are.... all contributing what we see as good and bad and in-between. Without those variations, we would be constructs of a robotic meandering throughout our existence, and evolution of us as a species impossible because we would not move forward....seeking, challenging, improving, looking for reason.
Exploration by and of man is our secret to evolution - and our differing faith is a reason - for whatever name we wish to place upon it - or not. Seeking betterment and the ultlimate answers for why we are.
But there is scientific proof we are all varying degrees in our basic life systems - our DNA is unique or cannot be matched with another throughout the world's population except for a very minor possibility.
Therefore how can there be "one church" for such a variety of humanity - as faith would be the core of
the life would it not?
If one church was the "answer" we would have nothing of the beloved variations on a theme of which we are.... all contributing what we see as good and bad and in-between. Without those variations, we would be constructs of a robotic meandering throughout our existence, and evolution of us as a species impossible because we would not move forward....seeking, challenging, improving, looking for reason.
Exploration by and of man is our secret to evolution - and our differing faith is a reason - for whatever name we wish to place upon it - or not. Seeking betterment and the ultlimate answers for why we are.
I'll share this only because it's something I wrote to explain to the chaplain why I wasn't comfortable in Church - but could still claim to have Faith:
It is my own belief, therefore my Faith, that I best honour my God, not in flatteries of praise, but in my own simple appreciation of all His gifts; not in paying Him dues, but in giving, of my own free will, to Him, His due respect; not in a raucous worship, but in my silent wonder at a sunset; in the still of a lake; in a swift-moving stream; in the simple beauty of a flower ... in the good in man, for it is in these gifts of Mother Earth, not in an environment created by man to please man in which my Spirit thrives.
That in which man chooses to place his Faith is but a personal preference. It is one's own theological opinion. As an opinion, it can be neither right, nor wrong. God created man as His vision of a man - in His image. We know not the appearance of God. Since this species called man exists in a variety of shades, shapes, tongues, beliefs, and comes in two genders, it seems logical that our own image of God is that which is created by man - for the comfort of man.
I believe there was a man named Christ. I accept Him to be my mentor. I cannot disprove His miracles. I choose not to do so. I understand the Message to be in the man ... in his own acceptance of others for whom they are. In His own time, this man named Christ was persecuted and condemned, by wisdom and ignorance of the day, for His non-conformity and insights ... as I have been in mine. He challenged convention in that He dared to be different. I will not re-crucify my Christ with labels of denomination.
Throughout the history of mankind, the arrogance of man has labelled others and persecuted those who do not conform to his own beliefs. We see it, even today in our alleged enlightened times: in Catholicism versus Orthodoxist versus Protestantism; in Islam versus Christianity versus Judaism versus.... Theology means just that: Theory! No one knows.... He believes. It matters not whether your Higher Power is named as Good Order and Discipline, Jesus, Allah, Buddha, Hare Krishna, or Harley-Davidson so long as it gives comfort to you. That's Faith! It is arrogance for one to believe his own Faith to be another's Truth.
When viewed from the peace of space, our little blue planet - another of our gifts from God - is a mosaic of colour, shape and shade: white, blue, brown.... The white of the clouds, vapours of life-giving water, seldom varies in intensity. That is the uniform purity of unconditional love. Blues - the life-givers - remain another constant. Brown denotes fertility and health in a multitude of shades - and those spaces where man can live. Ironically, the browns mark dead spots, and those places densely inhabited by man.
Peace in mind, soul or spirit is an ideal achievable only in acceptance that we cannot control what lives in the hearts of others. In an old Sunday School song, man is labelled as red, yellow, black or white. In my reality, man is those many shades of brown. Our time on this Earth is our Heavens or our Hells, dependent on our own levels of Peace.
Wolf
It is my own belief, therefore my Faith, that I best honour my God, not in flatteries of praise, but in my own simple appreciation of all His gifts; not in paying Him dues, but in giving, of my own free will, to Him, His due respect; not in a raucous worship, but in my silent wonder at a sunset; in the still of a lake; in a swift-moving stream; in the simple beauty of a flower ... in the good in man, for it is in these gifts of Mother Earth, not in an environment created by man to please man in which my Spirit thrives.
That in which man chooses to place his Faith is but a personal preference. It is one's own theological opinion. As an opinion, it can be neither right, nor wrong. God created man as His vision of a man - in His image. We know not the appearance of God. Since this species called man exists in a variety of shades, shapes, tongues, beliefs, and comes in two genders, it seems logical that our own image of God is that which is created by man - for the comfort of man.
I believe there was a man named Christ. I accept Him to be my mentor. I cannot disprove His miracles. I choose not to do so. I understand the Message to be in the man ... in his own acceptance of others for whom they are. In His own time, this man named Christ was persecuted and condemned, by wisdom and ignorance of the day, for His non-conformity and insights ... as I have been in mine. He challenged convention in that He dared to be different. I will not re-crucify my Christ with labels of denomination.
Throughout the history of mankind, the arrogance of man has labelled others and persecuted those who do not conform to his own beliefs. We see it, even today in our alleged enlightened times: in Catholicism versus Orthodoxist versus Protestantism; in Islam versus Christianity versus Judaism versus.... Theology means just that: Theory! No one knows.... He believes. It matters not whether your Higher Power is named as Good Order and Discipline, Jesus, Allah, Buddha, Hare Krishna, or Harley-Davidson so long as it gives comfort to you. That's Faith! It is arrogance for one to believe his own Faith to be another's Truth.
When viewed from the peace of space, our little blue planet - another of our gifts from God - is a mosaic of colour, shape and shade: white, blue, brown.... The white of the clouds, vapours of life-giving water, seldom varies in intensity. That is the uniform purity of unconditional love. Blues - the life-givers - remain another constant. Brown denotes fertility and health in a multitude of shades - and those spaces where man can live. Ironically, the browns mark dead spots, and those places densely inhabited by man.
Peace in mind, soul or spirit is an ideal achievable only in acceptance that we cannot control what lives in the hearts of others. In an old Sunday School song, man is labelled as red, yellow, black or white. In my reality, man is those many shades of brown. Our time on this Earth is our Heavens or our Hells, dependent on our own levels of Peace.
Wolf
