The New York Declaration.
- Thread starter petros
- Start date
Yup. Hamas can change their name to the Pop Tarts and live their lives in the Nation of Palestine they fought for and won.
Israel can't rebrand as a new entity and the pipe dream of Judea/Samaria/Euphrates to the Nile is never going to happen.
Going forward, after the most recent shenanigans, yesterday/today, depending on your time zone….
(YouTube & Israel resumes ceasefire after Gaza strikes)
Wow. Ok, even with apparently three different attacks on IDF forces in the last day, Israeli fought back, & still resumes the cease-fire. That’s apparently what I’m reading in the various new sources today.
You might read the same news sources and interpreted it completely differently.
Here’s something we can finally agree on today. This is never going to happen. Good to find some common ground. Other than a fringe of far-right religious extremists, this concept is not only irrelevant, it’s got to be absolutely laughable to the overwhelming majority of Israelis in its absurdity, to only be acknowledged with a group rolling of their eyes.
They whom? Israel or Hamas? I’m going to assume that the answer is yes.
DOHA, Oct 17 (Reuters) - Hamas intends to maintain security control in Gaza during an interim period, a senior Hamas official told Reuters, adding he could not commit to the group disarming - positions that reflect the difficulties facing U.S. plans to secure an end to the war.
Hamas politburo member Mohammed Nazzal also said the group was ready for a ceasefire of up to five years to rebuild devastated Gaza, with guarantees for what happens afterwards depending on Palestinians being given "horizons and hope" for statehood.
Not much. What were the conditions for a cease-fire? What were the conditions for this peace agreement?
Speaking to Reuters in an interview from Doha, where Hamas politicians have long resided, Nazzal defended the group's crackdown in Gaza, where it carried out public executions on Monday. There were always "exceptional measures" during war and those executed were criminals guilty of killing, he said. You can’t make an omelet without breaking a few eggs…
While Hamas has broadly expressed these views before, the timing of Nazzal's comments demonstrates the major obstacles obstructing efforts to cement a full end to the war in Gaza, days after the first phase of the ceasefire was agreed. Oh well.
Trump's September 29 plan called for Hamas to immediately return all hostages before committing to disarmament and ceding governance of Gaza to a technocratic committee overseen by an international transitional body.
Asked if Hamas would give up its arms, Nazzal, speaking on Wednesday, said: "I can't answer with a yes or no. Frankly, it depends on the nature of the project. The disarmament project you're talking about, what does it mean? To whom will the weapons be handed over?"
He added that issues to be discussed in the next phase of negotiations, including weapons, concerned not only Hamas but other armed Palestinian groups, and would require Palestinians more broadly to reach a position.
Asked for its response to Nazzal's remarks, the White House directed Reuters to comments by Trump on Thursday.
"We have a commitment from them and I assume they're going to honour their commitment," Trump said, noting that Hamas had returned more bodies but without elaborating on the issue of it disarming or its interim presence on the ground…but that’s so three days ago now.
(Reaching an agreement on the first phase of the plan depended on US pressure on Israel but also Qatar and Turkey leaning heavily on Hamas)
The spiraling violence comes just two weeks into a cease-fire between Israel and Hamas that sparked hope among both Palestinians and Israelis that the brutal, two-year war was finally at an end. President Trump, who proposed the 20-point plan that was meant to end the war…
…characterized the agreement as an opportunity for peace in the Middle East.
Israel Hits Dozens of Targets in Gaza After Saying Hamas Killed Troops in Attack — The Wall Street Journal
Israel accuses militant group of violating truce; Hamas’s armed wing denies mounting any attack on Israeli troops
Yeah that’s brutal. Not unexpected by anyone on Oct 7th, 2023 & to those that planned this prior to that date, but brutal nonetheless.
Who the fuck do you think?They whom? Israel or Hamas? I’m going to assume that the answer is yes.
DOHA, Oct 17 (Reuters) - Hamas intends to maintain security control in Gaza during an interim period, a senior Hamas official told Reuters, adding he could not commit to the group disarming - positions that reflect the difficulties facing U.S. plans to secure an end to the war.
Hamas politburo member Mohammed Nazzal also said the group was ready for a ceasefire of up to five years to rebuild devastated Gaza, with guarantees for what happens afterwards depending on Palestinians being given "horizons and hope" for statehood.
Not much. What were the conditions for a cease-fire? What were the conditions for this peace agreement?
Speaking to Reuters in an interview from Doha, where Hamas politicians have long resided, Nazzal defended the group's crackdown in Gaza, where it carried out public executions on Monday. There were always "exceptional measures" during war and those executed were criminals guilty of killing, he said. You can’t make an omelet without breaking a few eggs…
While Hamas has broadly expressed these views before, the timing of Nazzal's comments demonstrates the major obstacles obstructing efforts to cement a full end to the war in Gaza, days after the first phase of the ceasefire was agreed. Oh well.
Trump's September 29 plan called for Hamas to immediately return all hostages before committing to disarmament and ceding governance of Gaza to a technocratic committee overseen by an international transitional body.
Asked if Hamas would give up its arms, Nazzal, speaking on Wednesday, said: "I can't answer with a yes or no. Frankly, it depends on the nature of the project. The disarmament project you're talking about, what does it mean? To whom will the weapons be handed over?"
He added that issues to be discussed in the next phase of negotiations, including weapons, concerned not only Hamas but other armed Palestinian groups, and would require Palestinians more broadly to reach a position.
Asked for its response to Nazzal's remarks, the White House directed Reuters to comments by Trump on Thursday.
"We have a commitment from them and I assume they're going to honour their commitment," Trump said, noting that Hamas had returned more bodies but without elaborating on the issue of it disarming or its interim presence on the ground…but that’s so three days ago now.
(Reaching an agreement on the first phase of the plan depended on US pressure on Israel but also Qatar and Turkey leaning heavily on Hamas)
The spiraling violence comes just two weeks into a cease-fire between Israel and Hamas that sparked hope among both Palestinians and Israelis that the brutal, two-year war was finally at an end. President Trump, who proposed the 20-point plan that was meant to end the war…
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…characterized the agreement as an opportunity for peace in the Middle East.
Flare-ups of fighting between the two sides have occurred several times since the cease-fire came into effect, but this is the first time that Israel has responded with widespread strikes across Gaza. It is also the first time Hamas successfully killed troops since the halt to fighting.
Israel Hits Dozens of Targets in Gaza After Saying Hamas Killed Troops in Attack — The Wall Street Journal
Israel accuses militant group of violating truce; Hamas’s armed wing denies mounting any attack on Israeli troopsapple.news
Yeah that’s brutal. Not unexpected by anyone on Oct 7th, 2023 & to those that planned this prior to that date, but brutal nonetheless.
View attachment 31673
What peace agreement? Did Israel agree to a peace agreement or are they being forced to stop fighting by the UN and 149 nations?
Israel agreed to a U.S.-brokered ceasefire deal with Hamas in early October 2025, marking the first stage of an agreement aimed at ending the two-year Gaza war, securing a hostage release, and facilitating humanitarian aid. This deal, proposed by U.S. President Donald Trump, was approved by Israel's cabinet on October 8, 2025, and welcomed by UN Secretary-General António Guterres as a positive step based on prior U.S. proposals. It was not a direct "peace agreement" in the sense of a comprehensive long-term treaty but rather a phased ceasefire with provisions for hostage exchanges and potential escalation to broader talks.
The notion of Israel being "forced to stop fighting by the UN and 149 nations" appears to stem from a June 2025 UN General Assembly (UNGA) resolution demanding an immediate, unconditional, and permanent ceasefire in Gaza, which passed with 149 votes in favor, 12 against (including Israel and the U.S.), and 19 abstentions.
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Comes from here above.
Agreement involves at least two parties, which in this case were…?
If you don’t want to call it a “peace” agreement designed to end the war, you can call it whatever kind of agreement you wish “designed to end the war.” Here’s some alternative terms if it’ll made you feel better:
Gaza peace plan - Wikipedia
Its a ceasefire not a peace plan. Look that up whilst at it.Comes from here above.
Agreement involves at least two parties, which in this case were…?
View attachment 31675
If you don’t want to call it a “peace” agreement designed to end the war, you can call it whatever kind of agreement you wish “designed to end the war.” Here’s some alternative terms if it’ll made you feel better:
View attachment 31676
View attachment 31677
Gaza peace plan - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The real shit has yet to hit the fan. Clearing 700,000 illegal aliens from West Bank is going to be dirty.
A rose, etc…if it makes you feel better.
Seeing as it’s disputed territory, I concur with your assessment of the situation in that, without mutually agreed upon land swaps, and agreement of mutual borders, it will be a shit show.
Prior to 1967, control of the Palestinian territories was split between Egypt and Jordan, which “administered” (in the case of what Jordan renamed as the West Bank, it annexed it) the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, respectively.
The lands under PA control on the West Bank are disputed territories. When the partition plan was set up in 1948, that territory was marked as being another Arab state, could have been called Palestine or something else.
The neighbouring Arab nations rejected the plan because they did not want a Jewish state, Israel to exist. They told the local people to leave and return when they destroyed the new nation of Israel and sent any remaining population out of the area.
The Arab nations lost, but Jordan did conquer the West Bank and eastern Jerusalem. They basically ignored these lands even though they illegally annexed it. They could have set up a state, but didn’t and the local population of Arabs apparently didn’t care.
Jordanian annexation of the West Bank - Wikipedia
Six-Day War - Wikipedia
Seemed like a good deal, but the Arabs said no to all. So possibly these territories can be considered disputed. Jordan still did not initiate a new state. Jordan and Israel signed a peace treaty and at some point later Jordan gave up what it considered its claim to the West Bank and easter Jerusalem.
The International Court of Justice (ICJ), the UN General Assembly, and the UN Security Council all regard Israel as the occupying power for the territories. In 2024, the ICJ ruled in an advisory opinion that Israel's occupation was illegal and called for Israel to end its "unlawful presence ... as rapidly as possible" and to make reparations to the people of the occupied territories.
UN special rapporteur Richard Falk called Israel's occupation "an affront to international law". The Supreme Court of Israel has ruled that Israel is holding the West Bank under "belligerent occupation".
However, successive Israeli governmentshave preferred the term "disputed territories" in the case of the West Bank, and Israel likewise maintains that the West Bank is disputed territory. Israel has cited several reasons for retaining the West Bank within its ambit: historic rights stemming from the Balfour Declaration; security grounds, both internal and external; and the area's symbolic value for Jews.
Israeli-occupied territories - Wikipedia
The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said in a statement that it would begin a “renewed enforcement” of the ceasefire at the direction of the political echelon.
Hamas and its military wing, the Al-Qassam Brigades (AQB), said on Sunday morning that they remain committed to the ceasefire and rejected involvement in the attack on Israeli forces.
The stated commitment to the ceasefire comes as the deal’s key architects, Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner, are set to arrive in the region, according to sources familiar with the planning, as the Trump administration moves to implement the next phase of the agreement.
Deliveries of aid into Gaza will continue on Monday after Israel announced they would be halted on Sunday, a senior Israeli official told CNN.
apple.news
Hamas and its military wing, the Al-Qassam Brigades (AQB), said on Sunday morning that they remain committed to the ceasefire and rejected involvement in the attack on Israeli forces.
The stated commitment to the ceasefire comes as the deal’s key architects, Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner, are set to arrive in the region, according to sources familiar with the planning, as the Trump administration moves to implement the next phase of the agreement.
Deliveries of aid into Gaza will continue on Monday after Israel announced they would be halted on Sunday, a senior Israeli official told CNN.
US-brokered ceasefire appears to survive first major test as Israel and Hamas affirm commitment to deal — CNN
A US-brokered ceasefire in Gaza appears to have survived its first major test as Israel and Hamas affirmed their commitment to the deal after two Israeli soldiers were killed in the enclave on Sunday, prompting waves of airstrikes.
Peace agreement is years away.
Its no longer disputed. Israel has to GTFO as per the NYD. No timeline has been given but they have to leave.
And what makes you so sure that's what is happening? Hamas propaganda? Seriously? You are an idiot!!
Because I can read and my ears work. Pull your head out your ass and you too will be able to read and listen.
58, & not 59 or 75? That’s highly selective.
So, isn’t “West Bank” the colonial settler name for that chunk of ground? Will it get renamed to remove that colonial settler stink from it?
Maybe they’ll (whomever “they” are) rename that area CisJordan for something different.So, Jordan captured that area in a war in 1948, & annexed it in 1950, then attacked Israel in 1967 and lost that area (& East Jerusalem) to Israel. That’s….interesting, but perhaps not relevant (?) or very relevant? Hmmm….
ALL THAT BULLSHIT MEANS NOTHING RONNIE.58, & not 59 or 75? That’s highly selective.
View attachment 31681
So, isn’t “West Bank” the colonial settler name for that chunk of ground? Will it get renamed to remove that colonial settler stink from it?
View attachment 31682
View attachment 31684
So, Jordan captured that area in a war in 1948, & annexed it in 1950, then attacked Israel in 1967 and lost that area (& East Jerusalem) to Israel. That’s….interesting, but perhaps not relevant (?) or very relevant? Hmmm….
View attachment 31685
(YouTube & Peace Song for Israel and Palestine)
It's been Palestine since the Romans kicked the Jews God hated out and it will stay that way.
Its fucking over Rover. Go cry somewhere else.
Realization of a sovereign, unified and independent Palestinian State
• Right of the Palestinian people to self-determination: Call for universal
endorsement of the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
including the right to their independent State, comprising the West Bank,
including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, living side by side with Israel, and
promote, through joint and separate action this right, and ensure, while respecting the Charter of the United Nations and international law, that any impediment resulting from the illegal presence of Israel in the Occupied Palestinian Territory to the exercise of the Palestinian people of its right to self-determination is brought to an end.
Ending the Israeli occupation:
Bring to an end the Israeli occupation over thePalestinian territory occupied in 1967, including East Jerusalem, in all its manifestations, including the settlements and their associated regime.
• Implementing the two-State solution: Support the two-State solution based on
the 1967 lines, leading to the materialization of an independent, sovereign, and geographically contiguous Palestinian State, living side by side, in peace and security with Israel, as the only viable path to achieving just and lasting peace in the Middle East, in accordance with international law, and utilize all available avenues and mechanisms, in line with international law, and the UN Charter, to advance this objective.
• Recognition: Recognition of the State of Palestine as an expression of support
to the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to protect and
preserve the two-State solution, building on various initiatives, including the
Madrid+ initiative.
• Admission: Support the State of Palestine’s admission to full membership in
the international organizations and bodies, including full United Nations
membership.
• National, regional and multilateral initiatives: Take national initiatives and
engage in regional and multilateral initiatives, to realize a sovereign and
independent Palestinian State and to implement the two-State solution.
• One State, One Government, One Law, One Gun: Provide political, financial, institutional, security and technical support to the Palestinian Authority to implement its “One State, One Government, One Law, One Gun” policy throughout the OPT, unifying the West Bank and the Gaza Strip under a single, legitimate, and democratic national government.
• Sovereignty over its territory: Provide the required assistance to Palestine to
exercise its sovereignty over its territory, maritime space, airspace, its borders
with Egypt, Jordan and Israel, including through political, legal and financial
measures, capacity building and international monitoring.
• Connected Palestine: Connecting Palestine to the region and the world through the establishment of airports and ports, roads and railways, as well as through relevant grids and networks, with regional and international support.
• Territorial link: Support planning and implementation of a multi-purpose
permanent territorial link between the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
• Ending seizure and fragmentation of Palestinian land: Ensure reversal and
end of policies and practices that unlawfully seize Palestinian land and fragment
the Palestinian territory, including settlements and their associated regime and the restrictions on movement and access.
• Permanent sovereignty over natural resources: Support the permanent
sovereignty of the Palestinian people over their natural resources, and their
ability to explore, develop, and dispose of these natural resources, and prevent
any exploitation of these resources without the consent of Palestine.
• Sovereignty over essential utilities: Strengthen Palestine’s sovereignty and
control over essential utilities such as electricity, fuel, water, and telecommunications including by supporting the development and rehabilitation of critical infrastructure. This includes investments in energy security and renewable energy projects.
Palestinian ownership over taxation: Set up a Palestinian mechanism with
international support that ensures Palestinian ownership over taxation.
• Control over civilian affairs: Support Palestinian control over the population
registry, the issuance of passports and IDs and over family reunification.
• Security capability: Launching a robust international coordination framework
for initiatives aimed at supporting the PA in developing unified and efficient
security and policing structures towards a sovereign Palestinian State, and
preparing them for their duties upon independence.
• Financial and capacity-building support: Enhance sustained, predictable
financial and capacity-building support to the Palestinian Authority to strengthen
institutions, promote national unity, and enhance governance.
• Constitution and laws: Support the drafting of a Palestinian constitution and
unification of laws across the OPT and harmonization of these laws with the
Palestinian Declaration of Independence and the State of Palestine ’s
international commitments.
• Elections: International support for holding within one year democratic and
transparent general and presidential elections throughout the OPT, including
East Jerusalem, in line with previously held elections and support to the revision
of the electoral law to allow the participation of all candidates and parties that accept the PLO programme.
They aren't fucking around anymore.
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