Trans Rights

[Tecumsehsbones]

Ah, good old fashion diflection and avoidance.

There certainly are. As I said, they don't do anything, just as they don't do a damn thing where you seem to live. It might make some people feel good for a temporary amount of time when they do protest or parade, but when was the last time you saw someone say, "Gee, that parade sure made me think. I'm going to change my ways and how I think."?

I can't recall a single person.

Anywho, I don't like running around in circles over nothing with no outcome. I said what I had to say. Moving on. Have a wonderful day.

I'm neither deflecting nor avoiding. You said, quote,

The difference here with women, people of colour and disabled is that these groups took action through the legal system and ensured existing laws were enforced correctly.

I'm pointing out that taking action through the legal system was not the only action they took. I have no doubt there are complaints of discrimination against trans people working their way through the system right now. But that's not the only avenue, just as it wasn't the only avenue for women and people of color.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

And what have demos done? Made fools out of fools?

Showed support or hatred for this or that hockey team.

 

[petros]

Showed support or hatred for this or that hockey team.

And that helped the hockey cause achieve what legally or gained which Rights?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

And that helped the hockey cause achieve what legally or gained which Rights?

Legalized assault with a deadly weapon. . .

 

[Serryah]

Point 1 - Who's fault is that?

I'll assume you're being serious here. It's NOT on the trans people of color, it's on the assholes who keep doing shit against them.

Assholes against every spectrum of people out there exists. That's nothing new.

True and no, it's not.

The difference here with women, people of colour and disabled is that these groups took action through the legal system and ensured existing laws were enforced correctly.

...

Now I know you really don't work in reality much cause sure as shit, these groups TRIED to take action, and sometimes existing laws were enforced, but a) not always and b) laws got changed just to push the rights back.

When those laws are properly enforced, the previously mentioned assholes soon figure out they can't get away this crap anymore.

That's absolute bullshit. What happens is the assholes just try a different way, usually changing the law.

Having an annual parade down a street doesn't work.

Personally I dislike Pride Parades, at least the big, flamboyant ones. But now it's not about LGBTQIA+ rights, it's really more a Mardi Gras type party and a big way for corporations to make themselves look good. Or it was.

Can't say when the last time I saw a bunch of people in wheelchairs hold an annual parade of awareness down a street or wave a flag thinking it'll make some magical difference.

Don't normally see disabled people do a lot, sadly.

Point 2 - Everyone already has the same rights. That's what everyone else here is already saying. If someone infringes on said rights, you use the tools that already exist to protect those rights. See Point 1.

And your point 1 fails continually, which means people still have to "fight" for their rights to even be acknowledged, let alone protected.

Point 3 - And how are they fighting? Posting on social media for sympathy and doing demonstrations isn't fighting. Just as you should have figured out by now, debating and arguing with people online / social media doesn't change people's opinions. You express those opinions but that's it. See Point 1.

Okay, so this is pointless then; I shall save myself further time.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Prax's point seems to be "Any action other than official actions through a Hurt Feels Tribunal or the courts is WRONG!"

Which kinda flies in the face of what we would call First Amendment freedoms, and I'm sure shows up someplace in the Charter.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

When I was in West Berlin, we used to say. . .

"The Germans are demonstrating again."
"Oh? What are they protesting?"
"Their inability to win a war."

Meh, maybe I'm just jaded. Washington DC has protests and demos all the damn time. I can't be bothered, except to look up the effects on street and Metro traffic.

 

[petros]

Legalized assault with a deadly weapon. . .

They fought for implied consent? Sounds like old school common law to me not a Right.

 

[Praxius]

I'm neither deflecting nor avoiding. You said, quote,

I'm pointing out that taking action through the legal system was not the only action they took. I have no doubt there are complaints of discrimination against trans people working their way through the system right now. But that's not the only avenue, just as it wasn't the only avenue for women and people of color.

They may have done other things other than legal action, but only the legal action made any difference. Ensuring existing laws and rights are protected and enforced correctly trickles down the system, from businesses, to banks, to landlords, and so on, which in turn affects the people that work in these fields doing what they're supposed to (or they lose their job/business/face heavy fines) which leads to people doing the right thing in their every day lives.

If people think they can do whatever the hell they want without consequence, they will.

 

[TheShadow]

Yep, and they should have it too.

I won't even say it's disproportionate because it depends.

You get a black trans person and they're hit with so many minority issue whammy's it's unreal.



Yeah, and it's being denied to them kind'a like...

Oh wait, the denial rate is NOT like everyone else.

And when that stuff is being denied, it's a right denied.

Whether it's a trans person, a gay person, a black person, Latino, Asian, etc, etc. Experiencing any of that is a right DENIED.

It's a fallacy that someone with several minority issues "builds up" discriminations.

The denial rate isn't what it's made out to be because the rate of persons for trans issues is proportionally smaller.

As I said, everyone should have a basic rights systems but many minority groups over state their discrimination.

 

[Praxius]

Prax's point seems to be "Any action other than official actions through a Hurt Feels Tribunal or the courts is WRONG!"

Which kinda flies in the face of what we would call First Amendment freedoms, and I'm sure shows up someplace in the Charter.

Must be American.... Reading comprehension can be difficult.

Did I stutter? Did I say" Wrong?" Did I say you can't express your magical freedom of speech? Go right ahead.

I don't know how more simple I can make this for you. My point is you think these things will produce an outcome you want. I'm telling you that in the real world, none of these things will move the needle and won't change anything.

But go ahead. Keep stomping your feet and putting up a stink while doing nothing tangible that makes a difference. And in another 5 or 10 years when you're still having a tantrum & nothing has changed, I'll be still here telling you I'todaso.

 

[Praxius]

I'll assume you're being serious here. It's NOT on the trans people of color, it's on the assholes who keep doing shit against them.

Uh huh.... Yup..... And how do you make those assholes change?

Go on. Say it with me.....

 

[Serryah]

It's a fallacy that someone with several minority issues "builds up" discriminations.

Tell that to trans women who are black, or Latino.

Or rather, the ones that live; many trans black women, and Latino, are killed because they exist and people don't think they should.

 

[Serryah]

Uh huh.... Yup..... And how do you make those assholes change?

Currently? You don't, you can't. A few might change, but the majority won't.

In the future? How you make them change is waiting for them to die off and hope their children, or grandchildren, are better people.

Go on. Say it with me.....

Say what, that your faith/belief that the "law works" is how it should be done, when it's proven time and time again not to?

You wanna live in that fantasy, sure, go ahead. Reality is where the rest of us live.

 

[Praxius]

Currently? You don't, you can't. A few might change, but the majority won't.

And with that attitude, that's why you're not seeing any progress.

Whether these old fuddy duddys change their views or remain pig headed is irrelevant. If they're refusing your basic human rights, you hold them accountable through the courts and existing laws. They are then forced to give you a bank account. They are forced to approve your tenancy. They are forced to give you the job you're qualified for.

And then you can carry on with your life like everyone else and move on.

You're treating all this like some 20 year old girl getting into a relationship with a guy, thinking you can change them into what you want, rather than see them for what they are now.

 

[petros]

And with that attitude, that's why you're not seeing any progress.

Whether these old fuddy duddys change their views or remain pig headed is irrelevant. If they're refusing your basic human rights, you hold them accountable through the courts and existing laws. They are then forced to give you a bank account. They are forced to approve your tenancy. They are forced to give you the job you're qualified for.

And then you can carry on with your life like everyone else and move on.

You're treating all this like some 20 year old girl getting into a relationship with a guy, thinking you can change them into what you want, rather than see them for what they are now.

She turned me away from supporting LGBTQ.

 

[TheShadow]

Tell that to trans women who are black, or Latino.

Or rather, the ones that live; many trans black women, and Latino, are killed because they exist and people don't think they should.

I don't think anyone is doubting that minorities, and in fact MOST people, face inherent discriminations but using hysteria to overstate it is akin to the poverty porn that homeless sector uses to push their agenda.

There is no specific right that trans people or anyone else for that matter, should have that everyone shouldn't have.

 

[Serryah]

I don't think anyone is doubting that minorities, and in fact MOST people, face inherent discriminations but using hysteria to overstate it

Stop; full stop right there.

This isn't hysteria, or being overstated.

But it's clear you don't give a damn and your whole "oh they have rights" is the typical cry of those who don't actually give a damn, or even get the reality of the situations that trans people face.

I would dare you to say that to a trans woman of color, but you likely would never have the balls.

You wouldn't after you were done talking to them anyway.

is akin to the poverty porn that homeless sector uses to push their agenda.

There is no specific right that trans people or anyone else for that matter, should have that everyone shouldn't have.

The right to live as they are.

Trans people are MORE likely, now, to NOT have that.

Your denial of that simple fact is your ignorance of reality.

 

[Serryah]

And with that attitude, that's why you're not seeing any progress.

No, that's not why there's no progress. There's no progress because when what little DOES happen, it's taken away.

Whether these old fuddy duddys change their views or remain pig headed is irrelevant.

What kind of reality do you live in? Or are you on some sort of meds to make you have this fantastic view of life that has no basis in actual real life?

If they're refusing your basic human rights, you hold them accountable through the courts and existing laws. They are then forced to give you a bank account. They are forced to approve your tenancy. They are forced to give you the job you're qualified for.

And then you can carry on with your life like everyone else and move on.

You're treating all this like some 20 year old girl getting into a relationship with a guy, thinking you can change them into what you want, rather than see them for what they are now.

You're one funny guy, you know that?

 

[petros]

This isn't hysteria, or being overstated.

Go feed your cats.