You can always dismiss the charges if they prove conclusively that they did nothing to induce the miscarriage.
Roe v. Wade overturned?
- Thread starter Serryah
- Start date
If a pregnant woman is robbed and murdered on her way to an abortion, is the murderer still getting 2 counts?. One for the mother and one for the unborn child?
There are two good reasons why Justin Trudeau’s Liberals are once again accusing Pierre Poilievre’s Conservatives of wanting to take away abortion rights. First, the Liberals are desperate. Second, as a political ploy, it works.
The federal government announced this week that new legislation will require pregnancy counselling centres, many of which are faith-based, to tell patients up front whether they provide access to abortion and birth-control services. Those that do not provide that information could lose their charitable status.
The announcement has no real purpose other than to provide the Liberals with an opportunity to bring up the subject of abortion rights and then to bash the Conservatives.
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“Many Canadians are rightfully worried that a Conservative government would not protect” a woman’s right to choose, Liberal MP Judy Sgro declared Wednesday in the House. “It is alarming that women’s rights and freedoms are under attack by the Conservative Party.”
Mr. Trudeau emphatically agreed. “While we are protecting women’s freedom of choice, the Conservative Party is trying to roll it back.”
The accusation is false. You could call it a canard, a fabrication, even a bald-faced lie, though such language would be unparliamentary.
Instead, Mr. Poilievre denounced “the Prime Minister’s tin-foil-hat conspiracy theories and misinformation.”
He reminded the House that “It has been our 20-year-long policy in the Conservative Party that there will be no restrictions on women’s reproductive choices or on abortion.”
But the Liberals will, of course, ignore this fact, just as they have ignored it in the past.
For as long as the Conservative Party of Canada has existed, the Liberals have accused it of harbouring a hidden agenda to take away a woman’s right to choose. The Grits are particularly prone to making this accusation when they are behind in the polls.
The Liberals are desperate, so they are raising abortion as an issue again — The Globe and Mail
For as long as the Conservative Party of Canada has existed, the Liberals have accused it of harbouring a hidden agenda to take away a woman’s right to chooseapple.news
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When Liberal prime minister Paul Martin found himself at risk of losing to Conservative leader Stephen Harper in the 2004 election campaign, the Liberals released one of the most effective, and most vicious, attack ads ever aired in this country.
As well as claiming that the Conservatives planned to buy aircraft carriers and abandon public health care, one segment showed two young women huddled in a hallway, while the female narrator declared that Mr. Harper “won’t protect a woman’s right to choose.” That ad helped turn the Liberal campaign around, securing a minority-government win.
Throughout Mr. Harper’s two minority governments, Liberals warned of a hidden agenda to limit abortion rights that Conservatives would impose if they won a majority government. In 2011, the Conservatives won a majority.
View attachment 25435There was no hidden agenda.
That didn’t stop the Liberals, once back in government under Mr. Trudeau, from attacking Conservative leaders Andrew Scheer and then Erin O’Toole of having a hidden, anti-abortion agenda, even though both of them repeatedly vowed they would never permit such legislation.
The attacks contributed to Mr. Scheer losing in 2019 and Mr. O’Toole losing in 2021.
Today, the Prime Minister is deeply unpopular – way down in the polls, with many of his own MPs in revolt against him. What’s a Liberal to do at a time like this? Just what you’d expect: accuse the Tories of a hidden agenda on abortion.
View attachment 25436
(Jagmeet Singh’s NDP also likes to jump on this mendacious bandwagon.)
View attachment 25438
It is absolutely true that some members of the Conservative caucus oppose abortion rights. But they submit to the party’s pro-choice stand because they know that eight-in-ten Canadians support a woman’s right to choose, according to the polls.
That support is, if anything, likely to grow, in the wake of the American Supreme Court decision overturning Roe v Wade, which protected abortion rights. Horror stories are emerging in the U.S. of women dying because doctors refused to treat them for fear of prosecution if they aborted a fetus.
This is why there is all-party support in the House for a woman’s right to choose. That is why abortion rights shouldn’t be an issue.
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But the Liberals are paying the price for public weariness with the flat economy, the housing shortage, the consequences of high inflation and interest rates. Their only hope is to invent bogeymen, and abortion is their favourite bogeyman of all.
The longer the Liberals languish in the polls, the more of this we’re likely to get.
Sure, it may be a non-issue.
Or maybe not.
After all, in the US many said nothing would change the status of abortion there, and even those selected to SCOTUS said it was "settled precedent" and they wouldn't screw with it.
Yet... where is the country now?
So long as there are people who think people able to have children are just vessels to birth babies, so long as there are people who think it's their business and duty to tell those same people what to do with their bodies, it's a fear that rightly every person able to have a child should have.
Homicide is harsh, maybe involuntary manslaughter for not carrying the little miracle to term.
Yes, in the US….not Canada…
It’s a separate nation to the south of Canada. A completely separate nation with its own population, political system, etc…
OK, even if NOBODY politically in Canada with touch this with a 10 meter pole…
…because…
…But…
…But…
It really does work, repeatedly, regardless of the reality of the situation or the absurdity of the claim.
…Because…
Because….
This is the “one” in the fear mongering of the “one-two” Liberal claims of the secret agenda figmentation with the second one being….”gun control.”
Wow...
Okay, be delusional; it's not like abortion and women's health/reproductive care matters to you obviously.
Wow…seriously? Thank you for the false condemnation. I’m a Father & a Grandfather, and that blanket statement is beyond absurd but fill your boots.
What’s happening right now politically in Canada on this topic has absolutely nothing to do with women’s health or reproductive care, and everything to do with both the Liberals & NDP absolutely floundering in the polls.
Why do you think this is all of a sudden just a political concern now (?) that a federal election, no matter what, is less than a year away? Not background noise, but trying to make it front and centre now even though it’s a non-issue in Canada, & Canada is not the USA.
You're the one that doesn't think abortion is at risk. Don't want to be suggested to not give a damn, maybe take that seriously.
Not so false really.
So are lots of others who don't give a damn about women's health/reproductive rights. Doesn't make you special.
And... again, you're totally ignorant to the reality.
I don't deny that the Libs and NDP are using the topic to likely vote-scare people.
BUT.
There are also people in the current Conservative party who are anti-abortion. Enough to make people concerned.
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www.arcc-cdac.ca
So if you want to be damned ignorant on this topic, be prepared to be called out for it.
It's not "all of a sudden"; you just haven't paid attention. Chart I linked above has dates from 2008, so no, it's not "all of a sudden".
New Brunswick’s only private abortion provider announces it is closing its doors - New Brunswick | Globalnews.ca
A private abortion clinic in Fredericton says it has finally shut its doors, citing a steep rent increase and a lack of funding from the provincial government.
globalnews.ca
"The clinic provided abortions to those who don’t have a medicare card, such as migrant workers, homeless people and international students in the Maritime provinces, he said. It charged much less than the fees hospitals bill the uninsured, he said.
Surgical abortion services are now only available in New Brunswick at two hospitals: the Dr. Georges-L.-Dumont University Hospital Centre in Moncton and the Chaleur Regional Hospital in Bathurst."
Surgical abortion means D&C - which is for more than just abortions. A miscarriage that goes wrong usually requires them. That's why there's been issues with them in the US, because they're also abortion tied, doctors are afraid if they use them to treat women who are miscarrying but the fetus still has a heart beat, they'll be held responsible and, well... you can look into the rest yourself.
Not just a Federal issue and if you think it is then... you REALLY don't have a clue.
Yeah, Canada isn't the USA, but the same arrogant, misogynistic assholes are in both places, and have the same ideas about abortions and guess what? What the ones in Canada see happening in the US, they want up here. Just because YOU think it's a non-issue, doesn't mean that it is. It is very much an issue.
If you don't think that then you have a lot more issues going on than just not giving a damn about women's health care/reproductive rights.
You need to calm down and have an abortion.You're the one that doesn't think abortion is at risk. Don't want to be suggested to not give a damn, maybe take that seriously.
Not so false really.
So are lots of others who don't give a damn about women's health/reproductive rights. Doesn't make you special.
And... again, you're totally ignorant to the reality.
I don't deny that the Libs and NDP are using the topic to likely vote-scare people.
BUT.
There are also people in the current Conservative party who are anti-abortion. Enough to make people concerned.
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www.arcc-cdac.ca
So if you want to be damned ignorant on this topic, be prepared to be called out for it.
It's not "all of a sudden"; you just haven't paid attention. Chart I linked above has dates from 2008, so no, it's not "all of a sudden".
New Brunswick’s only private abortion provider announces it is closing its doors - New Brunswick | Globalnews.ca
A private abortion clinic in Fredericton says it has finally shut its doors, citing a steep rent increase and a lack of funding from the provincial government.
"The clinic provided abortions to those who don’t have a medicare card, such as migrant workers, homeless people and international students in the Maritime provinces, he said. It charged much less than the fees hospitals bill the uninsured, he said.
Surgical abortion services are now only available in New Brunswick at two hospitals: the Dr. Georges-L.-Dumont University Hospital Centre in Moncton and the Chaleur Regional Hospital in Bathurst."
Surgical abortion means D&C - which is for more than just abortions. A miscarriage that goes wrong usually requires them. That's why there's been issues with them in the US, because they're also abortion tied, doctors are afraid if they use them to treat women who are miscarrying but the fetus still has a heart beat, they'll be held responsible and, well... you can look into the rest yourself.
Not just a Federal issue and if you think it is then... you REALLY don't have a clue.
Yeah, Canada isn't the USA, but the same arrogant, misogynistic assholes are in both places, and have the same ideas about abortions and guess what? What the ones in Canada see happening in the US, they want up here. Just because YOU think it's a non-issue, doesn't mean that it is. It is very much an issue.
If you don't think that then you have a lot more issues going on than just not giving a damn about women's health care/reproductive rights.
Grab a pill, and don't watch the news for a while.
Think of April Flowers.
Funny a couple short years ago you were fine telling people what to do with their bodies . Remember pushing the not a vaccine on people ? Yup you are fine thinking it is your business what people do .
Murder, manslaughter (all levels of both), etc., are all "homicide." That's why I used the term. The prosecutor can figure out what level, depending on the facts of each case.
So this has been top of the Liberal/NDP agenda consistently constantly since 2008 or even 2015….& Trudeau pushed through this legislation when he had a majority in Parliament in 2015 then right? Or…
…or this is more convenient to bring up generally shortly before federal elections, or when they’re absolutely tanking to the conservatives with less that a year to go to a forced federal election about the super secret conservative agenda, etc…that they also never pushed through when they last had a majority? How….strange? Maybe not strange at all? For either party?
And you are showing that some people are concerned. Yes some people & some conservatives hold certain views, etc…& not everyone holds the same views as you and that doesn’t make anyone with a divergent view than exactly yours evil, or heartless, or totally ignorant, or totally ignorant to reality, etc…
That’s correct. I don’t believe abortion is at risk, in Canada. That is true.
Which you have done...regardless of the amount of information on either side, or the motivation for this hitting the news cycle now, or by whom, or why, etc…
Who’s ringing the alarm bell on this right now? Asking from the clueless section.
Then on this part we agree, except in the degree of “likely” involved. I don’t believe the word “likely” is involved whatsoever.
It doesn't have to be the "top" of the agenda to be a concern/consideration.
Not just brought up generally shortly before federal elections (or Provincial ones for that matter); that's just when it makes the national news.
Are some 'pet issues' brought up before elections? Well, duh.
Is abortion one of them? In your view, yes. In the view of people who pay attention to it though... not so much.
"Concerned"...
Well at least you admit that much.
Different views are one thing.
Wilful ignorance about a topic is another. Or deniability of it when it's brought to your attention is also another thing. Maybe you fit more into the second idea more than the first, but the ending is the same.
To your ignorance.
Amount of information on either side...?
Well, this part isn't exactly true. Abortion has been a topic of concern for a while; maybe not where you live, but it has been here in NB, and in other places, so...
I answered that already. Not my issue if you went past it; perhaps go back and look.
But I'll do you a solid:
A year after Roe fell, where does anti-abortion rhetoric stand in Canada? - National | Globalnews.ca
One year since the overturning of Roe v. Wade, there is concern "anti-rights" rhetoric is surfacing in Canada while some say the decision emboldened views that already existed.
globalnews.ca
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/not-a...s-with-accessing-abortion-in-canada-1.5978521
(A tidbit from that link: "In 2016, a United Nations Human Rights Commissioners report highlighted a concerning lack of access(opens in a new tab) to abortion and related services in Canada. Action Canada for Sexual Health and Rights has a toll-free and confidential phone and text line(opens in a new tab) that receives an average of 250 to 400 calls each month from those looking for information on abortion and other reproductive health services. One of the main concerns among callers is a lack of abortion providers in their community, particularly among those who live in rural areas(opens in a new tab), Doherty said.")
https://www.jogc.com/article/S1701-2163(19)30737-6/fulltext
("Equitable access to contraception and abortion is challenging even without criminal restrictions. Provincial funding policies determine the location where abortion can be obtained and what methods may be used. Inequalities are perpetuated by Canada's uneven population distribution, diverse belief systems, and stigma associated with abortion. Providers of abortion services still face the threat of violence and harassment. These barriers impede universal access to abortion services, particularly for Canada's marginalized and rural populations.1")
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/03/canada-abortion-rights-pregnancy - from over a year ago and what started this new slot of fears of abortion rights being taken.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/how-most-canadians-feel-about-abortion-according-to-a-poll-1.6890995 - polling, but interesting breakdown of thoughts after Roe v. Wade. I will add that it was an online poll so make of that what you will. Personally I'm iffy on online polls but I'm including it anyway.
https://www.arcc-cdac.ca/on-the-issues/ - Scroll down to Abortion Politics.
https://www.evangelicalfellowship.ca/abortion?details=true#tab1 - I'm throwing this in as an example of those pushing against abortions. Specifically:
Ask for change
- Pray for your Member of Parliament and your MPP/MLA
- Call or write your MP and MPP/MLA to ask for
- strong, specific conscience protection for healthcare workers (see www.TheEFC.ca/Euthanasia for more details
- increased support for adoption
- Write or call your MP to ask for increased recognition of fetal rights
Fetal rights... but screw the rights of the mother?
https://weneedalaw.ca/ - specifically calling for people to contact MP's. And before the usual jerks reply about this link:
1. Late Term abortions are NOT going to be for anything but the necessity of the mother's life, or because there's serious issues with the fetus. Late Term abortions "on a whim" or "because mother doesn't want the baby" is bullshit.
2. I'm all for counselling people if they think about having an abortion, and it usually is part of the discussion, or it should be if it's not. Waiting though, that's the choice of the person wanting the abortion (and availability of time to get it if it's a procedure).
3. If ANYONE is doing sex-selected abortion, then they're a fucking monster practising Eugenics or some Chinese "One Child" policy and they don't deserve to be parents to begin with.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/05/canada-conservatives-abortion-00029908 - interesting information here and it wasn't that long ago that the flub on abortion cost Sheer his leadership
https://ccla.org/major-cases-and-reports/reproductive-rights/ - more on the issues in NB alone with access to Abortion Care. This dovetails into the story I posted before.
That's your opinion.
After posting all of the above links for you, the main theme that's come out - despite concern the issue of abortions in Canada may be denied - is that there is technically no LAW concerning it in Canada. And without a specific law, it leaves the issue open for problems, including being denied/unable to be accessed by some people (as is currently) to outright removed period. And until that consideration for it is fixed, the concerns of it becoming outright denied to all IS a legitimate concern.
Following the U.S. Supreme Court decision overturning Roe V. Wade, Canadians may be wondering how we can better protect our right to abortion in Canada.
While introducing laws may seem like an appealing option, creating legislation in Canada could actually make it easier for the U.S. situation to happen here.
No government has since attempted to legislate on the issue.
In the Morgentaler decision, the Canadian Supreme Court did not explicitly state that access to abortion is a fundamental right — and no other Canadian court has said so since.
The only federal abortion-related legislation introduced in recent years have been private member's bills by Conservatives that would outlaw certain types of abortions or criminalize the killing of a fetus during an attack on a pregnant woman.
Such bills have not passed.
In Canada, abortion is already decriminalized; meaning that no criminal law tells us how and when abortion can be offered. In fact, the Supreme Court of Canada, in multiple decisions, has consistently ruled that such restrictions on abortion violate the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Instead, abortion is considered and regulated as a medical procedure….so a provincial jurisdiction, so yes, the level of service can vary from province to province…
The Truth About Abortion Legislation Debunking Liberal Claims
Canadian News Channel is Canada's 24-hour all-news channel, drawing on the vast resources of Canada's #1 news organizations, to deliver breaking news. #canad...
www.youtube.com
Why? Why is that?
Following the U.S. Supreme Court decision overturning Roe V. Wade, Canadians may be wondering how we can better protect our right to abortion in Canada.
While introducing laws may seem like an appealing option, creating legislation in Canada could actually make it easier for the U.S. situation to happen here.
View attachment 25454
No government has since attempted to legislate on the issue.
In the Morgentaler decision, the Canadian Supreme Court did not explicitly state that access to abortion is a fundamental right — and no other Canadian court has said so since.
The only federal abortion-related legislation introduced in recent years have been private member's bills by Conservatives that would outlaw certain types of abortions or criminalize the killing of a fetus during an attack on a pregnant woman.
Such bills have not passed.
In Canada, abortion is already decriminalized; meaning that no criminal law tells us how and when abortion can be offered. In fact, the Supreme Court of Canada, in multiple decisions, has consistently ruled that such restrictions on abortion violate the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Instead, abortion is considered and regulated as a medical procedure….so a provincial jurisdiction, so yes, the level of service can vary from province to province…but there is no legislation that exists for anyone legislatively to chip away at.
The Truth About Abortion Legislation Debunking Liberal Claims
Canadian News Channel is Canada's 24-hour all-news channel, drawing on the vast resources of Canada's #1 news organizations, to deliver breaking news. #canad...
So you're just repeating what I ended with.
Okay...
And I gotta laugh at that youtube short - "Common Sense Conservative"... yeah, right.
There are many who disagree with that belief.
As opposed to how restrictive it is now?
... who also wants to stay that way.
It also means there are severe problems with it that won't be addressed. But since the anti-abortion crowd can work with that, it's fine (oh wait, they think it should be legislated too...)
Because a Nation wide Law regarding abortion makes sense and until then there are people still not getting abortions as is their medical right to.
AND.
It's also the prime time of politics to press certain issues to the forefront.
I mean, why is trans issues such an issue in politics?
Why is immigration?
Why is health care?
Why is ANYTHING pushed to be such a serious issue right before an election?
Yes. That’s a very real possibility. Federal laws on provincial responsibilities always goes so well.
I’m sure there are.
Some of it, yes.
You mean more restrictions as unintended consequences to meddling with abortion that’s currently decriminalized and a provincial responsibility as a medical procedure as opposed to a legal issue with feds interfering in provincial jurisdictions?
I guess I am guilty of not wanting unintended restrictions to abortion in Canada, but if you want to further restrict access for women, that’s your call I guess. Does that make me uncaringly ignorant of the topic as a whole and such? Sure, why not?
Which of these are provincial and which of these are federal responsibilities? Who would push for federal laws on provincial rules, & will the provinces happily go along with further meddling by the feds into provincial jurisdiction? It’s working out so well so far….so that should go over well without dissent in an opening a can of worms sorta way between Feds & provinces. That can’t possibly be an issue.