Your Liberal NDP coalition that is not a coalition have had nine years to address this issue yet you save your ire for conservatives , why is that ? Do you think maybe Liberals are just as divided on the issue as conservatives ?
Roe v. Wade overturned?
- Thread starter Serryah
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Or for them it’s also a non-issue except for clubbing their political opponents, when convenient, & if this was legislated in, they couldn’t use it as a divisive wedge issue?
If the conservatives really have a top clearance secret agenda etc…wouldn’t they have acted on it when they last had a majority? Yet…they said they would not, & they have not…for some other secret agenda maybe?
If 80% of Canadians are in favour of access to abortion…so 20% are either against or undecided…who would be so stupid & egotistically unhinged and unaligned with reality to try to monkey with this? Who can’t read a room at this point? Who doesn’t have their fingers on the pulse of the Canadian electorate?
Monkeying with the current stasis of abortion in Canada currently, in my uneducated & heartless ignorance of reality opinion, it’s either political suicide or recklessly stupid and will jeopardize the current balance and probably not for better or improved access. Who at this point appears to be able to read a room?
Doesn’t appear to be the Liberal/NDP’s or the NDP/Liberals, regardless of how many “non-coalition coalitions that definitely aren’t coalition-type coalition supply & confidence agreements” that Jagmeet has ripped up or torn up or whatever….
"More restrictions"; possible, sure, but right now, it's pretty restrictive as it is.
As opposed to the unintended restrictions now, right?
Since you don't know that it would happen, you can't say for sure there would be.
What we do know is a) both sides of the issue will put their voices out there more than they are now, making it likely a clusterfuck like the US.
b) looking at it, laying out the provisions and making it more a law and not just a medical procedure that is available to only some people would be miles better than it is now.
Is there a *chance* it could go restrictive? Sure, but to use your own stats, most Canadians think Abortion access should be a thing. So why would it be so concerning if making it a law clarifies things from the way they are now? Unless of course, there is more anti-abortion sentiment out there that could, as you say, "restrict access" for people.
Again, when given proof that there is a legitimate concern that yes, abortion access could be taken, and you are willfully denying it, yeah that makes you uncaringly ignorant.
Depends on who you ask.
Technically Health Care and Immigration are "Provincial", but (and I get this all the time from "certain types" of people) the Feds are responsible (in their own ends of involvement, like money allocated for each, for example, numbers in Canada overall when it concerns immigration).
So I guess which do you think (or want to be) is Provincial and which is Federal?
That'd be the advocates for wanting abortion enshrined in Canadian Law.
Well according to you, everyone, at least when it comes to this issue.
See, there's that willful ignorance on your part again.
No, it is NOT working out well so far.
According to you, that's right, it shouldn't have any issues at all.
Except of course, it is.
Are the advocates for wanting abortion enshrined into Canadian law going into this with their eyes wide open, knowing that what’s this legislation exists, it can be argued against, curtailed, limited beyond it’s current status, & Eventually, end up in a much more limited form than is currently available today? Since you speak for all of them, and since the rest of us are all wilfully ignorant… are they/you good with that?
Yeah, I’ve acknowledge that already a few times. Got it.
Except that’s not what I’m saying at all but that’s OK. It’s current status & stasis, nobody federally wants to screw with it. Open that can of worms though and you’re gonna have people both federally and provincially adding (or subtracting from) whatever comes down the pipe because there was something to actually argue against…as opposed to just “ a decriminalized provincial medical procedure” but fill your boots.
If you really want to see this enshrined into Canadian law, & damn the torpedoes, & there cannot possibly be any unforeseen circumstances, etc… do you really want the Trudeau stench attached to this? Just knowing that there is going to have to be such massive backpedaling away from his policies on both federal and provincial levels in the foreseeable future that this could end up being collateral damage just because it came into existence in the last year of his term, but whatever?
I'm not a part of them so I don't know what they think other than what they've 'shared' publicly.
I'm not speaking for all of them anymore than you speaking for those who think Abortion is perfectly safe in Canada.
I'm not saying, either, that others are willfully ignorant, just you, only because you keep denying the proof given to you.
Then maybe clarify what you are saying, cause it sure seems like that is what you're saying.
While it's mostly true, that's also... not true.
But I've proven that to you.
Which I said, so... you're a great echo.
What I personally think is that the state of Abortion in Canada does need to be expanded so it really is accessible to everyone who wants/needs it, and not just certain people. Whether that takes a law, or just changes to the right as it is under it's status as health care. I also think this should have been resolved years ago, but no one wants to 'touch it' because it IS such a divisive issue, regardless of the stats/polling about it. And when you throw in the current political climate now, and how the effects of the US DO trickle into Canada - quite often - not resolving before now is a shitshow waiting to happen.
Honestly? Fuck no.
But the only other parties who would do anything would be the NDP and maybe Green, maybe Bloc.
The Cons wouldn't and they've proven that, too.
"Just because it came into existence in the last year of his term" - meaning... what, if something was done to enshrine Abortion more into law than just healthcare?
On that, yes, you have a valid point. But again, should have been done sooner.
…& on that note, in more than three decades, the parties that have done absolutely nothing on this are the NDP, & Green, & Bloc, & Liberals.
Actually, the “Cons” are the only party that has proposed anything even adjacent to this topic. Both voted down by the other parties. Bills C-225 & C-311, not about abortion but in a too similar vein, & so shot down.
Meaning the guy is soooo toxic that anything he touches in the last year or the next one is probably going to get flushed by some level of gov’t just to clear the air & disassociate it from them…& them being gov’t at the civic, provincial, federal levels.
If someone wanted to open that can of worms….but here we are in the same circle so I’ll just leave that alone.
Careful what you wish for ‘cuz you just might get it, & it might not be what you wanted but oh well…
What they seek isnt guarantees or Rights. Fuck no. Its a way of sidestepping the guilt of killing another human being. If the Government says its okay then morally it must be okay.
Bill Burr's take is my take. Same language too.
It isn’t a right, & it isn’t illegal, and it isn’t perfect, and it isn’t nationally universal as a provincial jurisdiction, but it’s available for those that need it.
Should knee & hip replacements be available to all that need them? Yeah!
Should knee & hip replacements be available in every community without people having to travel for the procedure? I don’t think that’s viable for it to be available everywhere but it’s available if you’re willing to go do it. Same thing with heart surgeries & kidney transplants, etc…
…& is that fair? Not really but it’s real. Should it be legislated in that anybody can get any procedure done anywhere? If there were infinite doctors and infinite funding, maybe, but that’s not how it works.
Is abortion, as a provincially regulated medical procedure more or less important than these other procedures (?), or more or less difficult than these other medical procedures? Currently, that’s not relevant. It’s just another procedure.
If something is hammered through politically surrounding this, then it exists as something different than a hip replacement or a heart surgery or a kidney transplant, and let the chips fall where they may I guess.
Laws change over time, get amended, limited, re-interpreted, modified, what-have-you. Are you arguing that no law should ever be passed unless it is guaranteed that it will never be amended or restricted, and will forevermore be interpreted exactly the way it is interpreted upon passage?
No. I am not arguing that “no law ever be passed unless it’s guaranteed that it will never be amended or restricted, etc…”
I’m arguing that 80% of Canadians are in favour of abortion & access to it…
…& that this is only being brought up again now because it’s politically expedient for the Liberal/NDP & NDP/Liberals…
But, & here’s the big 800lb gorilla in the room:
…& it would be another instance of the Feds (in this case the doomed Trudeau Feds again) trying to further step in & on provincial jurisdiction, & that’s NOT going to go over well.
Don’t know if you’ve picked this up, but I’m in favour of access to abortion, & don’t want to see if eroded for those that need it over an attempt at Trudeau brownie points in an attempted “gotcha” moment that’s going to backfire spectacularly in a Feds being out’a their lane, again, sorta way.
It’s not the Federal government’s place to pass laws on this provincial jurisdiction. If the provinces wish to align on this matter with separate policies to mimic a national strategy unified & codified into law, that’s a different thing, but not what’s being proposed here or advocated for.
Because, & especially currently in the toxic climate that surrounds Trudeau like the cloud of dust around Pigpen from Peanuts:
You may not have picked up on this at this point in time, but the current federal government is not very popular with, pretty much anybody at this point, & anything they’re going to touch is going to turn to shit. I don’t want to see access restricted further. That’s my stance.
Or possibly because the U.S., which had abortion as a right, suddenly doesn't. We tend to enshrine the rights we consider most important in durable laws. And as we've seen, even that doesn't always do it.
I always kinda considered it the Federal (your or ours) government's place to pass laws with equal, nationwide application on the most fundamental issues. Like slavery, racial equality, sex equality, freedom of thought, speech, and conscience, and personal and bodily autonomy.
As less and less secular are employed in healthcare its getting hard and harder to find people willing to do abortions.
Yes and the feds have refused to address this issue since the Supreme Courts Morgenteller (spelling ? ) decision . Conservative and Liberal . They all let it slide as they do not want to deal with this can of worms .