Hamas attacks Israel

Serryah

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It ain't peachy-keen by a long road, but being an Arab Muslim in Israel is a lot better than being one in one of the wackaloon countries that will put you in prison indefinitely for. . . being clean-shaven. Or wearing a top that reveals (gasp!) your upper arms on a 35+ degree day.

Semantics, TB.

You won't find me arguing that other Arab nations are absolutely out to fucking lunch for how they treat their people.

But Israel is not the "better" place by a long shot, especially now with the more extreme right in control of things. Arab Muslims, Arab Christians; they are second class citizens with questionable rights.

If anything, Israel is just on par with all the other nations on how fucking horrible it can be, unless you're the extra special "chosen" types that the leaderships like.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Semantics, TB.

You won't find me arguing that other Arab nations are absolutely out to fucking lunch for how they treat their people.

But Israel is not the "better" place by a long shot, especially now with the more extreme right in control of things. Arab Muslims, Arab Christians; they are second class citizens with questionable rights.

If anything, Israel is just on par with all the other nations on how fucking horrible it can be, unless you're the extra special "chosen" types that the leaderships like.
Y'know, now that I'm old and wear my hair short and grey, I sometimes get the look or the harassment from cops for looking Hispanic (funny, my Spanish is crap). And there are places in the US it'd be worse.

Still, better to be here than most other places. I ain't saying it's a garden of delights, just that I can counter-intimidate a redneck cop without being shot. At least I don't have to worry about the latest fucking idiot preacher declaring jihad on my ass.

I'd think as a woman, you'd see Israel, with all its many, many faults, as better than ISIS country.
 
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Serryah

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Y'know, now that I'm old and wear my hair short and grey, I sometimes get the look or the harassment from cops for looking Hispanic (funny, my Spanish is crap). And there are places in the US it'd be worse.

Still, better to be here than most other places. I ain't saying it's a garden of delights, just that I can counter-intimidate a redneck cop without being shot. At least I don't have to worry about the latest fucking idiot preacher declaring jihad on my ass.

You're the few of the lucky ones who can.

There are those in the US, who aren't alive anymore, who thought and tried to do as you said, and ended up on the end of "Jihad".

I'd think as a woman, you'd see Israel, with all its many, many faults, as better than ISIS country.

First off, the nations around Israel aren't "ISIS country". So that's exaggerating the situation.

Second, I think you misunderstand me.

Yes, Israel does have it's good things going for it, it's even a "Decent" place, so long as you are the Chosen Religion.

And that the nations - mostly - around Israel are not exactly the greatest places to be either. Saudi is fucking horrible, atrocious and I don't get why the hell ANY person that isn't born Arab/Muslim and part of the royal family would ever want to live there. And that goes for most of the other nations around, even Jordan, who is the most liberal of all the Arab nations. So don't assume that because I can't stand Israel, I side with them. I don't.

But I also see Israel with all it's many, many faults, as NO better than those other countries. In fact it is doing a damn good job of echoing those nations in their own way. Maybe it's due to bleed of culture, maybe it's just the region, maybe it's the fucking desert sun, or the fucking versions of God they all worship, I don't know. But as time passes, they're all becoming kissing-cousin nations where their similarities are outweighing the differences in a lot of ways.

Israel is not the "shining beacon of Democracy" that so many people seem to think it is. Nor is it some sort of example of "Freedom in the Middle East".

The only reason it's "better" is because of the PR it tries to put out and places like the US in the west are determined to blindly give it, regardless of the reality.


Oh, and as a woman? The Orthodox Jews in Israel would rather see me covered head to toe, not going anywhere without male companionship or approval, married off to whoever my father/brother chooses, breeding kids and getting little to no education.

Which kind'a sounds like those "ISIS country" types, doesn't it?
 
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Tecumsehsbones

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Second, I think you misunderstand me.

Yes, Israel does have it's good things going for it, it's even a "Decent" place, so long as you are the Chosen Religion.
Israel has its good things even if you're not Jewish.

And Orthodox Jews aren't in charge. The existence of wackaloons doesn't define a country. There are plenty of men (and even some women, FFS!) in the U.S. and Canada who'd see you in chains. But they're not in charge.

I'm just trying for a little balance here. I think my comments here have made it clear that I think Israel has screwed the pooch pretty consistently in its relations with its neighbors and with many of the people who live in Israel. It's not a comfortable place, nor a comfortable solution to the "Jew problem."

I'm just expressing the notion that, for all its flaws, it beats the hell out of mandatory-Islamic countries. Not denying nor minimizing the flaws, just presenting some overall perspective.

I'm a Shawnee from Oklahoma. I GET the reality of discrimination. But I've been around enough to know that discrimination is a more-or-less thing, not a yes-or-no thing.

Like you, I'm more than happy to criticize Israel's many, many flaws, and all their counter-productive, suicidal stupidities. Are you willing to admit that it's also a country far closer to the ideal of equality than its neighbors?

Doesn't excuse anything. Quite the contrary, it opens them to intense criticism for doing what the surrounding countries do every damn day without condemnation.

But a little balance is a good thing.
 

Taxslave2

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Also have to add that Israel, surrounded by nations that publicly and loudly proclaim they are going to wipe Israel off the map doesn’t have the luxury of being as far out in left field as many of the loons think it should be. Even Canada isn’t as free and democratic as most of us would like it to be. I’m not sure it is possible either with all the different religions proclaiming they have the one true god and their way is the only way. Some of theses religions don’t even have a sky pilot, just dogma that everyone else had better follow without question.
 

Serryah

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Israel has its good things even if you're not Jewish.

Selectively.

And Orthodox Jews aren't in charge.

No, but they're part of the driving force behind the right/authoritarian wings taking over. It's not just Orthodox Jews, mind you, but they're the ones that are not too different from the surrounding countries.

The existence of wackaloons doesn't define a country.

No, they don't, but they become a part of the definition when they start influencing things.

Kind'a like how they're defining the US right now.

There are plenty of men (and even some women, FFS!) in the U.S. and Canada who'd see you in chains. But they're not in charge.

True and no, not in charge.

But still, they're defining the country in part.

I'm just trying for a little balance here.

There's balance, then there's balance to the exclusion of parts needed for that balance.

I think my comments here have made it clear that I think Israel has screwed the pooch pretty consistently in its relations with its neighbors and with many of the people who live in Israel. It's not a comfortable place, nor a comfortable solution to the "Jew problem."

True and agreed, yes.

I'm just expressing the notion that, for all its flaws, it beats the hell out of mandatory-Islamic countries.

Ten years ago, I might have agreed.

Not denying nor minimizing the flaws, just presenting some overall perspective.

Perspective is fine, and it's one I agree with.

But you're still picking sides that - at least to me - is a "no sides should be picked" situation.

I'm a Shawnee from Oklahoma. I GET the reality of discrimination. But I've been around enough to know that discrimination is a more-or-less thing, not a yes-or-no thing.

I'm lucky, I've had minimal discrimination against me despite being who I am, but that's likely because being a night-hawk almost all my life, I avoided situations that would normally lead to discrimination. In the world anyway. Online, different story. But yes, it is a more-or-less thing, and also a yes-or-no thing.

Like you, I'm more than happy to criticize Israel's many, many flaws, and all their counter-productive, suicidal stupidities. Are you willing to admit that it's also a country far closer to the ideal of equality than its neighbors?

Same answer as above: ten years ago, maybe but now? Not so much. It's moving towards authoritarianism - like a lot of other countries/places in the world - and that state of rule rarely means equality.

Does it have parts of it that - compared to it's neighbour countries - are more equal. Yes, maybe save for Jordan. But those small parts of it do not make it better, not when claims of genocide, human rights abuses and illegal occupations of land/territory can also be tagged to it.

Israel is, at most, maybe a smidgen better than it's neighbour countries, but only just.

And - here, I'll explain why I use the phrase "It should know better/be better" when it comes to Israel.

Israel was a nation given to a group of people that had been persecuted for generations, centuries; millennia. As a people, they should know better than to discriminate against another group, as a people they should know what it's like to have your homeland taken from you. As a people they should know what it's like to be thought of as little more than animals, mistrusted, reviled.

They should be using this knowledge, this history, to be willing to be more compassionate.

And before someone jumps on it - this does NOT absolve the surrounding nations from being absolute assholes. Israel was right to defend itself - even if I personally hate how it came to be as a nation and the reason why it came to be as a nation - and those times were legitimate. But then it began to BECOME like it's neighbour nations.

There's defending themselves, then losing the moral and ethical high ground but continuing to present yourself as if you haven't.

And in today's day and age, and technology, there is no excuse for what Israel is doing in Gaza, unless it is for the complete destruction of not just Gaza but the people in it

That fact has been a static for years now, and it's not a new thing. The moment Rabin was assassinated by an Orthodox Jew, the claims of moral superiority by Israel of "Wanting Peace while Palestine wants War" died with him and Israel since has proven that.

The powers in Israel no more want peace than the powers in Palestine. That is the reality.

So for every situation that pops up, to me there can be "one side better than the other".

Doesn't excuse anything. Quite the contrary, it opens them to intense criticism for doing what the surrounding countries do every damn day without condemnation.

But a little balance is a good thing.

There is no balance. How can there be balance when you have Israel - backed by the US and most of the West, with tech that is 21st century, nuclear options, drones etc - vs. Hamas - backed by Iran and pockets of other terrorist groups, who make IED's, lob old munitions (rockets) at a country with an "Iron Dome", might have a shitton of weapon caches but they're all older weapons and most of the population itself doesn't have access to these, rather they throw rocks,. I could go on but we all know that'd be pointless.

Explain where the balance is in that?

It's the fact there IS no balance that is one of the biggest issues.

Ironically, this is a David vs. Goliath situation, only Israel is Goliath dressed in kevlar armor with a tank and aircraft above him and David is a terrorist with a molotov cocktail, IED and his sling.
 
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Serryah

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We condemn, and rightly, Hamas chanting death to Israel, extermination of it, etc and so on, right?

And yet... silence when Israel/Jews call for the same about Palestine (from Israel's supporters at least).





"But Hamas attacked on Oct 7th!"

And Israel knew it was coming. They've also retaliated, costing thousands and thousands of Palestinian lives.

"But Hamas-"

You can But Hamas until the cows come home, and be totally, legitimately, right.

You CANNOT look at situations like this out of Israel about the IDF and claim that's okay when if it was Hamas, it'd be condemned.

That's not Balance, that's ignorance of balance.

And THAT is the problem, that is the issue.

Israel is becoming that which it supposedly fights against.

And deserves no backing anymore than Hamas deserves backing.
 

Taxslave2

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Sometimes the only way to fight terrorism is with terrorism. Somewhere back in the Vietnam war time frame I read an article that basically said there is no way a conventional military can defeat gorillas. I think that holds true today. For one thing regular army personnel don’t generally have suicidal tendencies.
 
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petros

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We condemn, and rightly, Hamas chanting death to Israel, extermination of it, etc and so on, right?

And yet... silence when Israel/Jews call for the same about Palestine (from Israel's supporters at least).





"But Hamas attacked on Oct 7th!"

And Israel knew it was coming. They've also retaliated, costing thousands and thousands of Palestinian lives.

"But Hamas-"

You can But Hamas until the cows come home, and be totally, legitimately, right.

You CANNOT look at situations like this out of Israel about the IDF and claim that's okay when if it was Hamas, it'd be condemned.

That's not Balance, that's ignorance of balance.

And THAT is the problem, that is the issue.

Israel is becoming that which it supposedly fights against.

And deserves no backing anymore than Hamas deserves backing.
Boo frickety hoo.

I bet you cant name the river or the sea.....
 
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Tecumsehsbones

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Sometimes the only way to fight terrorism is with terrorism. Somewhere back in the Vietnam war time frame I read an article that basically said there is no way a conventional military can defeat gorillas. I think that holds true today. For one thing regular army personnel don’t generally have suicidal tendencies.
Nonsense. Gorillas ain't nearly as tough as they look. Hell, they're practically extinct already.
 

Dixie Cup

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How so? Even the bible says the Israelis came into that land from Egypt and got to slaughtering to secure it for their people.

Ever read what happened AFTER

Joshua fit the battle of Jericho
And the walls came a-tumbling down?

Short version is he and his army killed everybody.
The Jewish people have been in the area for over 3,000 years. They were forced out by various aggressors. The Ottoman Empire is one & there were others. I've recently learned that Syria, Lebanon & Jordon were created the same way that Israel was created. It's an interesting read into the M.E. and how it's come under fire simply due to antisemitism.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

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The title of this thread should read: PALESTINIANS ATTACK ISRAEL, not Hamas. If Hamas wasn't the ruling government of Palestine, I would say the title is spot on, but the fact is that Hamas is the government, the army, and the police department, and I would dare say that most of their members are Palestinians.

All the hands-ringing for the poor Palestinians. The same Palestinians who spit on and mutilated the naked body of a woman dragged in like a macabre trophy after a large portion of their government and valiant leader attacked Israel on October 7th using rape and genocide as their weapon.

Palestinians are dying in the 10s of 1000s!

War is hell. Guess they shouldn't have started one.

GoJewsGo!
 

spaminator

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Israeli military says it mistakenly killed 3 Israeli hostages in Gaza
Author of the article:Associated Press
Associated Press
Karin Laub, Najib Jobain and Jack Jeffery
Published Dec 15, 2023 • Last updated 1 day ago • 6 minute read

RAFAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — Israeli troops mistakenly shot three hostages to death Friday in a battle-torn neighborhood of Gaza City, and an Israeli strike killed a Palestinian journalist in the south of the besieged territory, underscoring the ferocity of Israel’s ongoing onslaught.


The deaths were announced as a U.S. envoy tried to persuade the Israelis to scale back their campaign sooner rather than later.


The hostages were killed in the Gaza City area of Shijaiyah, where troops have been engaged in fierce fighting with Hamas militants in recent days. The soldiers mistakenly identified the three Israelis as a threat and opened fire on them, said the army’s chief spokesman, Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari.

He said it was believed that the three had either fled their captors or been abandoned.

“Perhaps in the last few days, or over the past day, we still don’t know all the details, they reached this area,” Hagari said. He said the army expressed “deep sorrow” and was investigating.

Hamas and other militants abducted more than 240 people in the Oct. 7 attack that triggered the war, and the hostages’ plight has dominated public discourse in Israel ever since. Their families have led a powerful public campaign calling on the government to do more to bring them home.


Demonstrations in solidarity with the hostages and their families take place nearly every day. Late Friday, hundreds of protesters blocked Tel Aviv’s main highway in a spontaneous demonstration calling for the the hostages’ return.

Israeli political and military leaders often say freeing all the hostages is their top aim in the war alongside destroying Hamas.

Still, in seven weeks since ground troops pushed into northern Gaza, they have not rescued any hostages, though they freed one early in the conflict and have found the bodies of several others. Hamas released over 100 in swaps for Palestinian prisoners last month, and more than 130 are believed to still be in captivity.

The three hostages were identified as young men who had been abducted from Israeli communities near the Gaza border — Yotam Haim, 28, Samer Al-Talalka 25, and Alon Shamriz, 26.


Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called their deaths an “unbearable tragedy” and vowed to continue “with a supreme effort to return all the hostages home safely.”

In southern Gaza, the Al Jazeera television network said an Israeli strike Friday in the city of Khan Younis killed cameraman Samer Abu Daqqa and wounded its chief correspondent in Gaza, Wael Dahdouh. The two were reporting at a school that had been hit by an earlier airstrike when a drone launched a second strike, the network said.

Khan Younis has been the main target of Israel’s ground offensive in the south.

Speaking from a hospital bed, Dahdouh told the network that he managed to walk to an ambulance. But Abu Daqqa lay bleeding in the school and died hours later. An ambulance tried to reach the school to evacuate him but had to turn back because roads were blocked by the rubble of destroyed houses, it said.


Dahdouh, a veteran of covering Israel-Gaza wars whose wife and children were killed by an Israeli strike earlier in the war, was wounded by shrapnel in his right arm.

According to the Committee to Protect Journalists, Abu Daqqa is the 64th journalist to be killed since the conflict erupted: 57 Palestinians, four Israelis and three Lebanese journalists.

Palestinian U.N. Ambassador Riyad Mansour told a General Assembly meeting on the war that Israel “targets those who could document (their) crimes and inform the world, the journalists.”

“We mourn one of those journalists, Samer Abu Daqqa, wounded in an Israeli drone strike and left to bleed to death for six hours while ambulances were prevented from reaching him,” Mansour said.


The Israeli army did not immediately respond to an Associated Press request for comment about Abu Daqqa’s death.

Israel’s offensive has flattened much of northern Gaza and driven 80% of Gaza’s population of 2.3 million from their homes. Displaced people have squeezed into shelters mainly in the south in a spiraling humanitarian crisis.

The offensive has killed more than 18,700 Palestinians, according to the Health Ministry in Gaza. Thousands more are missing and feared dead beneath the rubble. The ministry does not differentiate between civilian and combatant deaths. Its latest count did not specify how many were women and minors, but they have consistently made up around two-thirds of the dead in previous tallies.


While battered by the Israeli onslaught, Hamas has continued its attacks. On Friday it fired rockets from Gaza toward central Israel, setting off sirens in Jerusalem for the first time in weeks but causing no injuries. The group’s resilience called into question whether Israel can defeat it without wiping out the entire territory.

Israelis remain strongly supportive of the war and see it as necessary to prevent a repeat of the Hamas attack, in which militants killed around 1,200 people, mostly civilians. A total of 116 soldiers have been killed in the ground offensive, which began Oct. 27.

U.S. President Joe Biden’s administration has expressed unease over Israel’s failure to reduce civilian casualties and its plans for the future of Gaza, but the White House continues to offer wholehearted support with weapons shipments and diplomatic backing.


Israeli airstrikes and tank shelling continued Friday, including in Khan Younis and in Rafah, which is one of the shrinking areas of tiny, densely populated Gaza to which Palestinian civilians have been told by Israel to evacuate. Details on many of the strikes could not be confirmed because communications services have been down across Gaza since late Thursday because of fighting.

In meetings with Israeli leaders on Thursday and Friday, U.S. national security adviser Jake Sullivan discussed a timetable for winding down the intense combat phase of the war.

Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant told Sullivan that it would take months to destroy Hamas, but he did not say whether his estimate referred to the current phase of heavy airstrikes and ground battles.


“There is no contradiction between saying the fight is going to take months and also saying that different phases will take place at different times over those months, including the transition from the high-intensity operations to more targeted operations,” Sullivan said Friday.

Sullivan also met with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to discuss Gaza’s postwar future. A senior U.S. official said one idea being floated is to bring back Palestinian security forces driven from their jobs in Gaza by Hamas in its 2007 takeover.

Any role for Palestinian security forces in Gaza is bound to elicit strong opposition from Israel, which seeks to maintain an open-ended security presence there. Netanyahu has said he will not allow a postwar foothold for the Abbas-led Palestinian Authority, which administers parts of the Israeli-occupied West Bank.


The U.S. has said it eventually wants to see the West Bank and Gaza under a “ revitalized Palestinian Authority ” as a precursor to a Palestinian state — an idea soundly rejected by Netanyahu, who leads a right-wing government that is opposed to Palestinian statehood.

Palestinian officials have said they will consider a postwar role in Gaza only in the context of concrete U.S.-backed steps toward statehood.

In the meeting, Abbas called for an immediate cease-fire and ramped-up aid to Gaza, and emphasized that Gaza is an integral part of the Palestinian state, according to a statement from his office. It made no mention of conversations about postwar scenarios.

The 88-year-old Abbas is deeply unpopular, with a poll published Wednesday indicating close to 90% of Palestinians want him to resign. Meanwhile, Palestinian support for Hamas has tripled in the West Bank, with a small uptick in Gaza, according to the poll. Still, a majority of Palestinians do not back Hamas, according to the survey.

— Jobain reported from Rafah, Gaza Strip, and Mroue from Beirut. Associated Press journalists Aamer Madhani in Washington, Julia Frankel in Jerusalem and Elena Becatoros in Athens contributed.
 

spaminator

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A Georgia teacher is accused of threatening to behead student in a dispute over an Israeli flag
Author of the article:Associated Press
Associated Press
Published Dec 15, 2023 • 1 minute read

WARNER ROBINS, Ga. (AP) — A middle school teacher in Georgia was arrested after witnesses told a sheriff’s investigator he threatened to cut off the head of a student who objected to an Israeli flag in his classroom.


Benjamin Reese, a teacher at Warner Robins Middle School, was taken into custody on Dec. 8 on charges of making terroristic threats and cruelty to children, according to Houston County jail records. He was released on bond two days later.


A message to his school email address was not immediately returned. Calls to possible phone listings for Reese, 51, were also not immediately returned or went unanswered. Houston County District Attorney William Kendall said Reese had requested a public defender, but no attorney was listed for him.

The student told a sheriff’s investigator she went into Reese’s classroom on Dec. 7 after spotting the flag and told him she found it offensive because Israelis were killing Palestinians. According to the student, Reese said he was Jewish, got angry and accused her of being anti-Semitic.

Witnesses, including staff, said they heard Reese use expletives and yell that he should cut off the student’s head.

In a statement, Houston County School District spokeswoman Jennifer Jones said Reese had not returned to the middle school since Dec. 7.

His bond conditions require him to stay away from the school and the student he is accused of threatening, Kendall said.

The district attorney added that he plans to seek an indictment from a grand jury next month.
 

spaminator

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A Georgia teacher is accused of threatening to behead student in a dispute over an Israeli flag
Author of the article:Associated Press
Associated Press
Published Dec 15, 2023 • 1 minute read

WARNER ROBINS, Ga. (AP) — A middle school teacher in Georgia was arrested after witnesses told a sheriff’s investigator he threatened to cut off the head of a student who objected to an Israeli flag in his classroom.


Benjamin Reese, a teacher at Warner Robins Middle School, was taken into custody on Dec. 8 on charges of making terroristic threats and cruelty to children, according to Houston County jail records. He was released on bond two days later.


A message to his school email address was not immediately returned. Calls to possible phone listings for Reese, 51, were also not immediately returned or went unanswered. Houston County District Attorney William Kendall said Reese had requested a public defender, but no attorney was listed for him.

The student told a sheriff’s investigator she went into Reese’s classroom on Dec. 7 after spotting the flag and told him she found it offensive because Israelis were killing Palestinians. According to the student, Reese said he was Jewish, got angry and accused her of being anti-Semitic.

Witnesses, including staff, said they heard Reese use expletives and yell that he should cut off the student’s head.

In a statement, Houston County School District spokeswoman Jennifer Jones said Reese had not returned to the middle school since Dec. 7.

His bond conditions require him to stay away from the school and the student he is accused of threatening, Kendall said.

The district attorney added that he plans to seek an indictment from a grand jury next month.
looks like he will beheading to the unemployment line. ;)
 

Ron in Regina

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looks like he will beheading to the unemployment line. ;)
Holy Cow…a middle school teacher, so depending on the definition probably grades 6-9, so threatening a student that’s probably 11yrs old to 14yrs old?
1702809152304.jpeg
A Georgia teacher is accused of threatening to behead student in a dispute over an Israeli flag.
What was this flag doing in the classroom?
The student told a sheriff’s investigator she went into Reese’s classroom on Dec. 7 after spotting the flag and told him she found it offensive because Israelis were killing Palestinians. According to the student, Reese said he was Jewish, got angry and accused her of being anti-Semitic.
She? This dude, a teacher, was threatening to behead a 11-14yr old (assumably) girl (assumably?)? Wow….
Witnesses, including staff, said they heard Reese use expletives and yell that he should cut off the student’s head.
Talk about someone who shouldn’t be around children….
In a statement, Houston County School District spokeswoman Jennifer Jones said Reese had not returned to the middle school since Dec. 7.
Damn…what a nutcase.
 

Serryah

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The title of this thread should read: PALESTINIANS ATTACK ISRAEL, not Hamas. If Hamas wasn't the ruling government of Palestine, I would say the title is spot on, but the fact is that Hamas is the government, the army, and the police department, and I would dare say that most of their members are Palestinians.

All the hands-ringing for the poor Palestinians. The same Palestinians who spit on and mutilated the naked body of a woman dragged in like a macabre trophy after a large portion of their government and valiant leader attacked Israel on October 7th using rape and genocide as their weapon.

Palestinians are dying in the 10s of 1000s!

War is hell. Guess they shouldn't have started one.

GoJewsGo!

So... you're like Hamas, only you're on the side of the Extremists in Israel.

Got'cha.
 
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