Omnibus: Conservative Leadership Race

[pgs]

There is serious doubt as to how long Trudeau will last as leader of the Liberals, but also serisou question about what political direction the Conservatives will adopt when their leadership issue is solved. As far as the freedom protests are concerned, I'm of the mind that the EA was a distasteful but necessary step in bringing a fast conclusion to a nasty situation, and that it was a good choice by the Liberals to cancel it as soon as its purpose was fulfilled. The right all over the world is playing up Trudeau as a dictator and a communist (top entires in the right wing rhetoric manual these days) when the protests had become an anti-democratic exercise in minority rule by bullying. Their cries of freedom were coming at the expense of the freedom of others.

What freedoms were at the expense of others ? The roads had lanes open for emergency vehicles at all times . People were not stopped from travelling anywhere in Ottawa . Parliment hill is pretty much occupied by protesters all summer , why is it different in winter ?
Is it because you think these are right wing protesters ? Or is it because these are middle class Canadians who should pay their taxes and shut up ?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

For one he could have defunded or outright sold the CBC for a start .

I'm minded to agree. I believe the original motivation for founding the CBC, aside from the "emulating Mama England" part, was sound, but it's fulfilled its function of bringing electronic media to the Canadian people. Seems to me to be a waste of money. I'd suggest either eliminating it altogether, or reducing its funding and reach until it's more like our PBS.

It should also shoot for political neutrality. You'll know you achieved it when half of Canada is screaming "Commie soshulists!" and the other half is whimpering "Nazi fascists!"

Eisenhower called it "the equality of dissatisfaction," and considered it the gold standard for doing the right thing.

Smart guy, Ike.

 

[Nick Danger]

Yes keep telling conservatives to act like liberals , that worked well for Scheer and O’Toole .

It did bring them close as the popular vote results show. They just need a way to glean off some votes from the Liberals' urban strongholds. I can't see taking the CPC further to the right doing much for them, it would certainly put a bucket full of rhetorical ammo in the hands of left leaning candidates. Add to that a very weak platform when it came to social and economic inequality and environmental issues, a couple of things that have moved into the spotlight over the past decade or two. The Conservatives can't shake the stereotype of rich old boys worried more about themselves than rank-and-file Canadians. They're talking about it more at election time, but only at election time and people still don't believe them.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Trudeau has always struck me as a pretty-boy idealist. He coasted to power on his father's reputation at a time when Harper's reputation was in the dumpster, and despite Trudeau's steadily declining popularity the Conservatives can't seem to come up with a better solution. The elections have been very close, with Trudeau losing the popular vote the last two times at bat, only winning the seat count because he held onto the seat-rich urban centers, traditionally strong Liberal supporters. The Conservatives couldn't bring much to the table in the last two elections in the way of policy, hoping to cash in on Trudeau's loss of popular support but that didn't pan out. What happens next time around will have a lot to do with the leadership of both parties, whether Trudeau can pull his approval ratings out of the toilet, whether he is replace, and what kind of contender the Conservatives can come up with.

Will that all said, and with the race so close for the last couple of elections, Canada is tearing itself apart along the right/left seam much like the US. A lot of voters don't see either of the two major parties doing much to change that, they choose to play a game of political opportunism instead, pointing fingers and muck-raking. This is playing well for the third place NDP, the Canadian version of Bernie Sanders, who stay out of the cheap fights as best they can and work instead toward making things better for middle and lower classes that haven't seen a lot of progress in decades.

That was very helpful.

Would the Tories consider one slightly-used chief executive? Ain't like we got any need for him. We'll give you a deal!

 

[pgs]

Trudeau has always struck me as a pretty-boy idealist. He coasted to power on his father's reputation at a time when Harper's reputation was in the dumpster, and despite Trudeau's steadily declining popularity the Conservatives can't seem to come up with a better solution. The elections have been very close, with Trudeau losing the popular vote the last two times at bat, only winning the seat count because he held onto the seat-rich urban centers, traditionally strong Liberal supporters. The Conservatives couldn't bring much to the table in the last two elections in the way of policy, hoping to cash in on Trudeau's loss of popular support but that didn't pan out. What happens next time around will have a lot to do with the leadership of both parties, whether Trudeau can pull his approval ratings out of the toilet, whether he is replace, and what kind of contender the Conservatives can come up with.

Will that all said, and with the race so close for the last couple of elections, Canada is tearing itself apart along the right/left seam much like the US. A lot of voters don't see either of the two major parties doing much to change that, they choose to play a game of political opportunism instead, pointing fingers and muck-raking. This is playing well for the third place NDP, the Canadian version of Bernie Sanders, who stay out of the cheap fights as best they can and work instead toward making things better for middle and lower classes that haven't seen a lot of progress in decades.

Jagmeet Singh lost any chance for his NDP by supporting Trudeau on every House of Commons vote these last three years and supporting the the Emergencies Act put the final nail in their coffin . Expect the NDP to lose much electoral support next election . IMHO .

 

[Nick Danger]

What freedoms were at the expense of others ? The roads had lanes open for emergency vehicles at all times . People were not stopped from travelling anywhere in Ottawa . Parliment hill is pretty much occupied by protesters all summer , why is it different in winter ?
Is it because you think these are right wing protesters ? Or is it because these are middle class Canadians who should pay their taxes and shut up ?

The cost of the border blockades is being measured in billions in lost business and employment, and the losses incurred by businesses and their employees in downtown Ottawa is equally disturbing, as was the disruption endured by residents. The protesters didn't have a lot of credibilty once things got to that point, and it sure didn't help that they ignored every form of authority the were faced with.

 

[pgs]

It did bring them close as the popular vote results show. They just need a way to glean off some votes from the Liberals' urban strongholds. I can't see taking the CPC further to the right doing much for them, it would certainly put a bucket full of rhetorical ammo in the hands of left leaning candidates. Add to that a very weak platform when it came to social and economic inequality and environmental issues, a couple of things that have moved into the spotlight over the past decade or two. The Conservatives can't shake the stereotype of rich old boys worried more about themselves than rank-and-file Canadians. They're talking about it more at election time, but only at election time and people still don't believe them.

If they hadn’t kicked Mad MaX out they would have had his votes .

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Jagmeet Singh lost any chance for his NDP by supporting Trudeau on every House of Commons vote these last three years and supporting the the Emergencies Act put the final nail in their coffin . Expect the NDP to lose much electoral support next election . IMHO .

Oh, damn, I agree again. This is worrying. . .

Heck the NDP set up as an alternative to the Libs. If they continue to bob along in the Libs' wake like a rowboat being towed by a warship, what's the point?

 

[Nick Danger]

Jagmeet Singh lost any chance for his NDP by supporting Trudeau on every House of Commons vote these last three years and supporting the the Emergencies Act put the final nail in their coffin . Expect the NDP to lose much electoral support next election . IMHO .

That remains to be seen. What you see as "supporting Trudeau" can also be viewed as "opposing the CPC", something which is to be expected from a left wing party. The only people crying about the EA are conservatives, the same people widely seen to be at the roots of the protest. Looking back the EA helped bring the protests to a quick conclusion at a time when most of the country was saying "enough is enough", and it was canceled as soon as that was accomplished.

 

[pgs]

The cost of the border blockades is being measured in billions in lost business and employment, and the losses incurred by businesses and their employees in downtown Ottawa is equally disturbing, as was the disruption endured by residents. The protesters didn't have a lot of credibilty once things got to that point, and it sure didn't help that they ignored every form of authority the were faced with.

Yet the border block aids were over prior to the Emergencies Act . The businesses that stayed open during the protests did excellent business . The malls were shut down by order in council by the city not the protesters .
Yet the police were able to coordinate with the truckers to control the amount of vehicles in the city core and Marshall most trucks out side the city . And keep traffic flowing .

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

The cost of the border blockades is being measured in billions in lost business and employment, and the losses incurred by businesses and their employees in downtown Ottawa is equally disturbing, as was the disruption endured by residents. The protesters didn't have a lot of credibilty once things got to that point, and it sure didn't help that they ignored every form of authority the were faced with.

I hope I can offer some input to that. As a resident of the near-in DC suburbs who travels into and around Washington regularly, I frequently have my days disturbed by protests. Yes, it's an almighty pain in the ass, but I regard it as cheap at the price for the freedom. Even the big ones that clog things up for several days.

I've been saying, and I'll repeat. . . both for principled purposes and for practical popularity, True Dope shoulda stated, and followed through on and been consistent on, the right to protest vs. actual crimes. He lost the ability to say "we would do the same to FNs or BLM or hockey fans if they did the same thing" when he started blasting the protesters for their message, rather than each one's individual conduct.

 

[Nick Danger]

If they hadn’t kicked Mad MaX out they would have had his votes .

Yes, but that goes back to the internal split within the party, between moderates and those further to the right. The last thing the party needs is anyone who might even come close to falling under the far right label. Don't make the mistake of assuming that all voters are informed about the real issues facing us, a lot don't look past their facebook feed.

 

[pgs]

That remains to be seen. What you see as "supporting Trudeau" can also be viewed as "opposing the CPC", something which is to be expected from a left wing party. The only people crying about the EA are conservatives, the same people widely seen to be at the roots of the protest. Looking back the EA helped bring the protests to a quick conclusion at a time when most of the country was saying "enough is enough", and it was canceled as soon as that was accomplished.

You do realize most Canadians are neither Liberal nor Conservative and can and do vote for both . Back in the Reform days ridings that go NDP provincially we’re going Reform federally . Suggesting the protesters were right wing is missing the point . The protesters were protesting mandates and government overreach regardless of the party in power .

 

[pgs]

Yes, but that goes back to the internal split within the party, between moderates and those further to the right. The last thing the party needs is anyone who might even come close to falling under the far right label. Don't make the mistake of assuming that all voters are informed about the real issues facing us, a lot don't look past their facebook feed.

Shifting further left might gain something in vote reach Ontario but could cost them their base in the west who are already at odds with the party .

 

[Nick Danger]

I hope I can offer some input to that. As a resident of the near-in DC suburbs who travels into and around Washington regularly, I frequently have my days disturbed by protests. Yes, it's an almighty pain in the ass, but I regard it as cheap at the price for the freedom. Even the big ones that clog things up for several days.

I've been saying, and I'll repeat. . . both for principled purposes and for practical popularity, True Dope shoulda stated, and followed through on and been consistent on, the right to protest vs. actual crimes. He lost the ability to say "we would do the same to FNs or BLM or hockey fans if they did the same thing" when he started blasting the protesters for their message, rather than each one's individual conduct.

Yes, I agree. He dawdled and dawdled, pleading with the protesters to go home, and it all fell on deaf ears. After three weeks of ignoring pleas and orders from everybody, was there really any other way to bring it to an end ? The EA just helped make it happen quicker, once the resolve was found to remove the protesters by force.

 

[mentalfloss]

OMG Charest is a Liberal Lite - Conservatives have already had a few of those so I'm thinking, thanks but no thanks?

Conservatives can't afford anything but diet Liberals in Canada. Just look at Ontario.

 

[DaSleeper]

Harper also gave us income splitting........

 

[petros]

There is serious doubt as to how long Trudeau will last as leader of the Liberals, but also serisou question about what political direction the Conservatives will adopt when their leadership issue is solved. As far as the freedom protests are concerned, I'm of the mind that the EA was a distasteful but necessary step in bringing a fast conclusion to a nasty situation, and that it was a good choice by the Liberals to cancel it as soon as its purpose was fulfilled. The right all over the world is playing up Trudeau as a dictator and a communist (top entires in the right wing rhetoric manual these days) when the protests had become an anti-democratic exercise in minority rule by bullying. Their cries of freedom were coming at the expense of the freedom of others.

Tow truck companies refused to tow trucks until threatend with jail.

That ain't right.

 

[petros]

Conservatives can't afford anything but diet Liberals in Canada. Just look at Ontario.

The Liberals are so far left Conservatives need to follow?

Wow.

 

[pgs]

Yes, I agree. He dawdled and dawdled, pleading with the protesters to go home, and it all fell on deaf ears. After three weeks of ignoring pleas and orders from everybody, was there really any other way to bring it to an end ? The EA just helped make it happen quicker, once the resolve was found to remove the protesters by force.

He could have ended it before it even got off the ground simply by ending the vaccine mandates for cross border truckers . After all they had been safely crossing the border for the two prior years .