April Fools!! Here's your Carbon Tax F#ckers!!!

[Ron in Regina]

No, I'd say it was punitive if it was intended to punish.

That being what the word means.

If a Carbon Tax isn’t a punitive tax intending to punish in order to change behaviour, then what is it?

A Rose by any other name etc…and wording it as a tax that “incentivizes actions to make them less carbon intensive” changes it into a non-punitive tax how?

Somethings we can change behaviourally and some things we can’t. We can’t make Canada a country that doesn’t require us to heat our homes at least half the year, but some people in urban settings can use public transportation if it exists and is effective and goes from where they are to where they need to be in an effective timeframe.

So a carbon tax on driving a private vehicle in a city that has a real & effective public transportation system can change a persons behaviour, but application of that same carbon tax to the same person for choosing to not freeze from Fall through Spring changes their behaviour how (?) and how is that not punitive?

Some people will get a Carbon Tax rebate and some won’t, based upon their income or lack there of, which has nothing to do with their Carbon Footprint or what they’ve done to change it. How is that not punitive?

Personally, we’ve (on our own dime) upgraded to a 95% efficient furnace, & have spent almost $18,000 replacing all the windows in our home to make them more efficient, and have insulated the living shit out of our attic, and have years ago replaced every lightbulb in our home to energy efficient CFL’s or LED’s, but it makes no difference to the fact that we will be charged a carbon tax on our electricity & heating bills and will receive no rebate for our efforts….with the money invested in becoming more energy efficient more than offset in the Carbon Tax that increases more every year…& and there’s not much left we can do to make our home any more energy efficient. On April Fools Day this Carbon Tax (& the irony of the timing doesn’t escape me) will increase again regardless of what we do or don’t do.

I have a truck that I need for work in the industry that I’m in, but I Rarely use it for anything beyond work….& we have a fuel sipping (better than 9L/100kms on the highway) SUV for as much of everything else as we’re able to use it for….but that also means we have to have two vehicles that each need to be insured every month so are we getting ahead & helping save the planet by having two vehicles instead of one (?) or just playing the game and being “incentivized to act in a certain manner” that gains us no financial advantage in the increasing carbon tax scene of things?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

If a Carbon Tax isn’t a punitive tax intending to punish in order to change behaviour, then what is it?

A Rose by any other name etc…and wording it as a tax that “incentivizes actions to make them less carbon intensive” changes it into a non-punitive tax how?

Somethings we can change behaviourally and some things we can’t. We can’t make Canada a country that doesn’t require us to heat our homes at least half the year, but some people in urban settings can use public transportation if it exists and is effective and goes from where they are to where they need to be in an effective timeframe.

So a carbon tax on driving a private vehicle in a city that has a real & effective public transportation system can change a persons behaviour, but application of that same carbon tax to the same person for choosing to not freeze from Fall through Spring changes their behaviour how (?) and how is that not punitive?

Some people will get a Carbon Tax rebate and some won’t, based upon their income or lack there of, which has nothing to do with their Carbon Footprint or what they’ve done to change it. How is that not punitive?

Personally, we’ve (on our own dime) upgraded to a 95% efficient furnace, & have spent almost $18,000 replacing all the windows in our home to make them more efficient, and have insulated the living shit out of our attic, and have years ago replaced every lightbulb in our home to energy efficient CFL’s or LED’s, but it makes no difference to the fact that we will be charged a carbon tax on our electricity & heating bills and will receive no rebate for our efforts….with the money invested in becoming more energy efficient more than offset in the Carbon Tax that increases more every year…& and there’s not much left we can do to make our home any more energy efficient. On April Fools Day this Carbon Tax (& the irony of the timing doesn’t escape me) will increase again regardless of what we do or don’t do.

I have a truck that I need for work in the industry that I’m in, but I Rarely use it for anything beyond work….& we have a fuel sipping (better than 9L/100kms on the highway) SUV for as much of everything else as we’re able to use it for….but that also means we have to have two vehicles that each need to be insured every month so are we getting ahead & helping save the planet by having two vehicles instead of one (?) or just playing the game and being “incentivized to act in a certain manner” that gains us no financial advantage in the increasing carbon tax scene of things?

That argument has some merit. Or you could say that it is intended to minimize carbon production whilst also providing funds to help alleviate climate change. Kinda like down hereabouts they say cigaret taxes are intended to encourage folk to quit whilst also providing funds for medical care for victims of tobacco smoke-related illnesses.

But I'm not sure how inflammatory terms like "punitive" move the debate forward. Not that tax is trying to do that, mind.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Seeing as how both of our countries have apparently decided that deficits don't matter and debt don't have to be repaid, why don't they just eliminate all taxes and borrow the entire budget?

"I can't be out of money. I still have cheques!"

 

[Ron in Regina]

If you had to define the term “Carbon Tax” into a few sentences that also describes the reasoning for its existence, how would you do so?

Going forward, on the financial spectrum of who is affected by the carbon tax, on the top end are the rich who won’t really notice it and who’s behaviour won’t change. On the bottom end are the poor who really can’t do anything about it but will receive rebates regardless to offset this tax (& I’m not saying that’s wrong), and in the middle will be the rest paying for this carbon tax who, regardless of what they do to reduce their carbon footprint will pay more and more carbon tax every year.

Those in the middle can either not change their behaviour, being “Incentively” taxed until they eventually qualify for rebates, or do everything they to lower their carbon footprint while paying a carbon tax and not qualifying for a rebate just to try and stay where they are financially, like hamsters on a wheel that speeds up incrementally every single year on April Fools day.

That’s where it feels like I’m at regarding the Carbon Tax, but maybe it’s one of those “Forest for the Trees” thing where I’m too busy running on the Hamster Wheel to stop and see a different perspective.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Seeing as how both of our countries have apparently decided that deficits don't matter and debt don't have to be repaid, why don't they just eliminate all taxes and borrow the entire budget?

"I can't be out of money. I still have cheques!"

Why not? There’s always children & grandchildren & great-grandchildren to pay for our debts.

How would Americans react to a Carbon Tax that increases every year (with no sunset date regardless of their actions) on April Fools Day on top of their other taxes?

Would it be like the modern equivalent of dumping sacks of tea into the Boston harbour?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Please don't think I'm defending the carbon tax as it exists in Canada at the moment.

Obviously, a sensible carbon tax would target all sources of carbon emissions, from tailpipes to chimneys to cowfarts to factories to power plants, would be intended to "incentivize" the carbon emitters to find lower-carbon or carbon-free ways to accomplish their ends, and would either put the funds in the general fund or target the funds to carbon-reduction measures.

But my basic rule is this: In any tax code more'n ten pages long, the excess overwhelmingly favors the rich. Anybody don't know that's a feature of the landscape is a damn fool. Smart play is to minimize that as much as possible.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Why not? There’s always children & grandchildren & great-grandchildren to pay for our debts.

How would Americans react to a Carbon Tax that increases every year (with no sunset date regardless of their actions) on April Fools Day on top of their other taxes?

Would it be like the modern equivalent of dumping sacks of tea into the Boston harbour?

We'd probably run a bunch of trucks hither and yon. Or maybe find some other stupid movie to emulate.

Turns out we're no more creative or smart than y'all.

Just a lot more violent.

 

[pgs]

If a Carbon Tax isn’t a punitive tax intending to punish in order to change behaviour, then what is it?

A Rose by any other name etc…and wording it as a tax that “incentivizes actions to make them less carbon intensive” changes it into a non-punitive tax how?

Somethings we can change behaviourally and some things we can’t. We can’t make Canada a country that doesn’t require us to heat our homes at least half the year, but some people in urban settings can use public transportation if it exists and is effective and goes from where they are to where they need to be in an effective timeframe.

So a carbon tax on driving a private vehicle in a city that has a real & effective public transportation system can change a persons behaviour, but application of that same carbon tax to the same person for choosing to not freeze from Fall through Spring changes their behaviour how (?) and how is that not punitive?

Some people will get a Carbon Tax rebate and some won’t, based upon their income or lack there of, which has nothing to do with their Carbon Footprint or what they’ve done to change it. How is that not punitive?

Personally, we’ve (on our own dime) upgraded to a 95% efficient furnace, & have spent almost $18,000 replacing all the windows in our home to make them more efficient, and have insulated the living shit out of our attic, and have years ago replaced every lightbulb in our home to energy efficient CFL’s or LED’s, but it makes no difference to the fact that we will be charged a carbon tax on our electricity & heating bills and will receive no rebate for our efforts….with the money invested in becoming more energy efficient more than offset in the Carbon Tax that increases more every year…& and there’s not much left we can do to make our home any more energy efficient. On April Fools Day this Carbon Tax (& the irony of the timing doesn’t escape me) will increase again regardless of what we do or don’t do.

I have a truck that I need for work in the industry that I’m in, but I Rarely use it for anything beyond work….& we have a fuel sipping (better than 9L/100kms on the highway) SUV for as much of everything else as we’re able to use it for….but that also means we have to have two vehicles that each need to be insured every month so are we getting ahead & helping save the planet by having two vehicles instead of one (?) or just playing the game and being “incentivized to act in a certain manner” that gains us no financial advantage in the increasing carbon tax scene of things?

I own two vehicles and pay liability insurance for both even though I can only drive one at a time .

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I own two vehicles and pay liability insurance for both even though I can only drive one at a time .

Can I borrow t'other next Tuesday? I gotta move my snow machine up to the cabin.

 

[Ron in Regina]

We'd probably run a bunch of trucks hither and yon. Or maybe find some other stupid movie to emulate.

Turns out we're no more creative or smart than y'all.

Just a lot more violent.

More violent and better armed are two very different things. Have you seen some of the riots we’ve had surrounding hockey wins and losses?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

More violent and better armed are two very different things. Have you seen some of the riots we’ve had surrounding hockey wins and losses?

We mostly save that for college football and basketball games.

Wanna impress me? Throw a curling riot.

 

[pgs]

Can I borrow t'other next Tuesday? I gotta move my snow machine up to the cabin.

Sure , it will fit in the back .

 

[pgs]

Sure , it will fit in the back .

I will have to go to the insurance brokers first to register you on my vehicle , oh and I require your drivers license number .

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Sure , it will fit in the back .

Thanks. She's sick of it in the living room.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I will have to go to the insurance brokers first to register you on my vehicle , oh and I require your drivers license number .

Here it is. . . 3.

 

[pgs]

I will have to go to the insurance brokers first to register you on my vehicle , oh and I require your drivers license number .

Here it is. . . 3.

Believe it or not I must register all drivers on my insurance . Only in B.C. , bring lots of cash .

 

[taxslave]

We mostly save that for college football and basketball games.

Wanna impress me? Throw a curling riot.

My limited experience with curlers is that by the end of the game none are sober enough to even slide a rock down the ice, nevermind actually throwing one.

 

[taxslave]

Believe it or not I must register all drivers on my insurance . Only in B.C. , bring lots of cash .

Not if it is an occasional thing. You get a couple of day's grace a month.
ETA: Since TB is a furriner, his license is probably not valid on your vehicle.

 

[pgs]

My limited experience with curlers is that by the end of the game none are sober enough to even slide a rock down the ice, nevermind actually throwing one.

That was my part of my limited experience as well . The skips yelling is what really pissed me off .

 

[Dixie Cup]

Gas just went up in Edmonton - most stations are at $1.439