"sorry, you can't win with that case, because case law shows that john doe tried and failed."
Gun Control is Completely Useless.
- Thread starter Colpy
- Start date
Why Canada should ban the sale, ownership of handguns
There is no conceivable reason why an ordinary person needs a handgun, writes Tony Keene
https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/opinion-gun-control-handguns-1.5532173
The government has finally moved to ban military-style assault rifles. Great. So now let's go to the next step, a complete and comprehensive ban on the sale and ownership of all handguns.
There is no conceivable reason why an ordinary person needs to own a handgun. No reason whatsoever.
Those of us trained in the use of handguns (and I mean properly trained, by the police or the military, not just a weekend course at the local gun club) know that the armed amateur is dangerous. A police officer on a gun call does not want Citizen Rambo whipping out a personal gat to come to their assistance. That officer needs a clear field of observation and fire, and only one potential threat.
Likewise, the term "shooting yourself in the foot" is not just a metaphor. Military medics know well that when you draw a pistol in a panic, the first round sometimes goes through your foot. Or an innocent bystander. If you keep it tucked into your waistband, it will go through something else, but that's another story.
Trudeau announces ban on 1,500 types of 'assault-style' firearms — effective immediately
OPINIONLatest gun control effort isn't merely a failure. It corrodes trust among Canadians
There are those who say that, to them, a gun is just a tool. This is completely fatuous. Something which was invented to kill human beings cannot be likened to a screwdriver. Farmers use rifles and shotguns for pest destruction, which is perfectly legit, but those are still guns and they are not kept in a tool box.
Many people enjoy target shooting. Bolt-action rifles for targets and shotguns for skeet shooting are perfectly suited for this, and if you want to use a handgun, there are gas- or air-powered replicas available in sporting goods stores. They function almost exactly like the real firearm, but are much less dangerous — they shoot pellets half the size of 9-mm parabellum ammo and at a much lower velocity (a 9-mm parabellum round will go through a car door, through the driver and into the passenger before stopping).
The argument will no doubt be made that because they look like the real thing, replicas could still be used to commit crimes. But taking one to stick up the local corner store carries much less chance of an innocent bystander taking a stray round.
The more guns in society, the more gun deaths. Legal guns have a way of being stolen and becoming illegal. And even a law-abiding gun owner can cross over to the dark side under stress, delusion and paranoia.
People who rave about owning these devices of death are often referred to as "gun enthusiasts." This makes about as much sense as "poison gas enthusiasts" or "land mine enthusiasts." Collecting and slavering over devices which are primarily designed to kill people is not normal.
As for the gun lobby in this country, they likely won't vote for the present government under any circumstances, so trying to appease them is a complete waste of time and effort. The government should spend less time studying and more acting. And the sooner the better.
A suggested scenario:
A total and absolute ban on handgun sales, and on handgun ownership by private citizens. (With long prison terms for violation.)
Restriction of long guns to bolt-action rifles and limited-magazine shotguns.
Firm enforcement of minimum sentences for possession of any restricted weapon, and even more stringent penalties for anyone committing a crime with a firearm.
Exemptions, under strict controls, where subsistence hunting is a way of life.
Add to this a heightened border vigilance against guns coming from the United States, and not only will gun crime decrease, so will accidental deaths and suicides.
And no, it won't take away our freedom or democracy. But it will make us safer.
There is no conceivable reason why an ordinary person needs a handgun, writes Tony Keene
https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/opinion-gun-control-handguns-1.5532173
The government has finally moved to ban military-style assault rifles. Great. So now let's go to the next step, a complete and comprehensive ban on the sale and ownership of all handguns.
There is no conceivable reason why an ordinary person needs to own a handgun. No reason whatsoever.
Those of us trained in the use of handguns (and I mean properly trained, by the police or the military, not just a weekend course at the local gun club) know that the armed amateur is dangerous. A police officer on a gun call does not want Citizen Rambo whipping out a personal gat to come to their assistance. That officer needs a clear field of observation and fire, and only one potential threat.
Likewise, the term "shooting yourself in the foot" is not just a metaphor. Military medics know well that when you draw a pistol in a panic, the first round sometimes goes through your foot. Or an innocent bystander. If you keep it tucked into your waistband, it will go through something else, but that's another story.
Trudeau announces ban on 1,500 types of 'assault-style' firearms — effective immediately
OPINIONLatest gun control effort isn't merely a failure. It corrodes trust among Canadians
There are those who say that, to them, a gun is just a tool. This is completely fatuous. Something which was invented to kill human beings cannot be likened to a screwdriver. Farmers use rifles and shotguns for pest destruction, which is perfectly legit, but those are still guns and they are not kept in a tool box.
Many people enjoy target shooting. Bolt-action rifles for targets and shotguns for skeet shooting are perfectly suited for this, and if you want to use a handgun, there are gas- or air-powered replicas available in sporting goods stores. They function almost exactly like the real firearm, but are much less dangerous — they shoot pellets half the size of 9-mm parabellum ammo and at a much lower velocity (a 9-mm parabellum round will go through a car door, through the driver and into the passenger before stopping).
The argument will no doubt be made that because they look like the real thing, replicas could still be used to commit crimes. But taking one to stick up the local corner store carries much less chance of an innocent bystander taking a stray round.
The more guns in society, the more gun deaths. Legal guns have a way of being stolen and becoming illegal. And even a law-abiding gun owner can cross over to the dark side under stress, delusion and paranoia.
People who rave about owning these devices of death are often referred to as "gun enthusiasts." This makes about as much sense as "poison gas enthusiasts" or "land mine enthusiasts." Collecting and slavering over devices which are primarily designed to kill people is not normal.
As for the gun lobby in this country, they likely won't vote for the present government under any circumstances, so trying to appease them is a complete waste of time and effort. The government should spend less time studying and more acting. And the sooner the better.
A suggested scenario:
A total and absolute ban on handgun sales, and on handgun ownership by private citizens. (With long prison terms for violation.)
Restriction of long guns to bolt-action rifles and limited-magazine shotguns.
Firm enforcement of minimum sentences for possession of any restricted weapon, and even more stringent penalties for anyone committing a crime with a firearm.
Exemptions, under strict controls, where subsistence hunting is a way of life.
Add to this a heightened border vigilance against guns coming from the United States, and not only will gun crime decrease, so will accidental deaths and suicides.
And no, it won't take away our freedom or democracy. But it will make us safer.
There's no conceivable reason why an ordinary (?) person needs a private vehicle with more than 200hp....so should Canada ban the sale of all private vehicles of more than 200hp? My daily driver is closer to 400hp but it's registered Commercial so it's irrelevant to this conversation. Can you define 'ordinary' as in 'ordinary person' in the context that you've used it above please?
Out of the list of 1500+ different models of rifles just banned, name one of them that's an assault rifle let alone a military-style assault rifle. To the best of my limited knowledge not one rifle on the list was fully automatic. I currently do not, nor have ever, owned a firearm. I don't have a dog in this hunt, but I can smell bullshit when it's wafting in the breeze.
There's no conceivable reason why an ordinary person needs a private vehicle with more than 200hp....deja vous?
Gangs and guns are a problem (the BULK of the problem). Take the guns away from the gangs, and tighten up illegal (smuggled) imports, will make us safer.
.....
Yep, that's called "estoppel." It can occur for a number of reasons, procedural and substantive.
One hand points the handgun at the criminal, the other calls 911. You.won't like me if you make me put tbe cellphone down.
HERE'S A HUGE SURPRIZE!!!!!
Bill Blair Lied: RCMP is Prohibiting Shotguns via
Bill Blair Lied: RCMP is Prohibiting Shotguns via
Order in Council
For Immediate Release –
May 15, 2020
Oshawa, ON – Public Safety Minister Bill Blair lied when he told Canadians his gun ban via Order in Council would not prohibit shotguns.
The RCMP’s Firearms Reference Table (FRT) now lists dozens of makes and models of bolt-action, pump-action and semi-automatic shotguns as Prohibited firearms through Part 87 of the Minister’s OIC gun ban. http://canadagazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2020/2020-05-01-x3/html/sor-dors96-eng.html
87. The firearms of the designs commonly known as the M16, AR-10 and AR-15 rifles and the M4 carbine, and any variants or modified versions of them…
A partial list of shotguns reclassified as Prohibited firearms by the RCMP's Canadian Firearms Program in the past 24 hours include:
- Adler B210 Bolt-Action Shotgun[ii]
- AlphaArms 15SA Semi-Automatic Shotgun[iii]
- Axor MF-1 Semi-Automatic Shotgun[iv]
- Canuck Havoc Pump-Action Shotgun[v]
- Derya Arms VR90 Semi-Automatic Shotgun[vi]
- Eternal FX12 Semi-Automatic Shotgun[vii]
- (many more guns being added as this is written including the Canadian made Maccabee Defence rifles)
It is crystal clear that Minister Bill Blair lied to Canadians about banning shotguns.
He either lied on May 1st, 2020, during Justin Trudeau’s virtue-signalling press conference: [viii]
“I want to assure hunters and farmers and target shooters in this country that nothing that we are doing today or will do in the future is intended to interfere with this lawful, responsible and legal activity.”
Or Bill Blair lied on May 5th, on Facebook: [ix]
“Earlier today, the Canadian Shooting Sports Association issued a statement alleging that our government is banning 12 and 10 gauge shotguns. This is absolutely incorrect and we will be reaching out to them to correct their misunderstanding.”
Or he lied on Twitter that same day: [x]
“Earlier today, the @CSSA_CILA issued a statement alleging that our government is banning 12 and 10 gauge shotguns. This is absolutely incorrect and we will be reaching out to them to correct their misunderstanding.”
Or Bill Blair lied to Parliament on May 6th when he said:
“I'll repeat one more time, 10-gauge and 12-gauge shotguns are not prohibited under this order in council.” [xi]
And
“We have been very clear. This does not cover 10-gauge and 12-gauge shotguns. The police will understand that. They know how to do their jobs. I trust them.” [xii]
Or Bill Blair lied to Parliament on May 7th when he said:
“We're not banning any toys and we're not banning shotguns.”
Or Bill Blair lied to Parliament on May 14th when he said:
“…the Canadian firearms program has made it explicitly clear that 10 and 12-gauge shotguns are not included in this prohibition. All people who were concerned about that need not be concerned.”
And
“Perhaps the member did not hear when I explained that the prohibition did not include these weapons [shotguns] in any way and the clarification actually has been provided by the Canadian firearms program utilizing the widely accepted standards and it explicitly states those weapons are not prohibited.”
Any way you cut it, Bill Blair lied to Canadians.
Repeatedly, both inside and outside of Parliament.
We expect politicians to play fast and loose with the truth during press conferences.
We expect politicians to play fast and loose with the truth on social media.
The one thing we do not expect and will not tolerate is government Ministers lying to the Canadian people in the House of Commons.
Minister Blair, you’ve lied enough.
Resign.
Salvage the only shred of dignity and honour still available to you – while you still can.
Resign immediately.
PS: As of the writing, they are currently adding rifles and more shotguns to the lists. More to come so stay tuned.
http://web-extract.constantcontact.com/v1/social_annotation_v2?permalink_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fmyemail.constantcontact.com%2FNews-Release--RCMP-is-Prohibiting-MORE-Shotguns-via-Order-in-Council.html%3Fsoid%3D1124731702303%26aid%3Di-KxRO0OOzI&image_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmlsvc01-prod.s3.amazonaws.com%2Ff1ccb3fd501%2Fd8c7049a-c4a4-46ce-8ee6-b4263c73fc2d.jpg%3Fver%3D1588433691000&fbclid=IwAR3qUD9lZwSTzYC5NoIMTdcrLEDGtVRHCSCHOYxGF5shC0rw8A8EKX3dHBM
What have I said constantly on these threads?
Gun grabbers are liars. They can't make their point any other way. And they are manipulative, and the "useful idiots" to tyrants.
These people are idiots. By making this increasingly appear like an attempt to drastically reduce the number of firearms in the hands of Canadians, by doing it in a manner that completely bypasses due process, by essentially behaving like every tyrannical gov't in history, they are guaranteeing that very few of the unregistered prohibited weapons will be turned in. Therefore they become illegal, and join the pool of illegal guns available to unlicensed individuals. Absolutely counter-productive.
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I saw him on Youtube supposedly to have a "discussion" on firearms with people from the CCFA and all he did was dictate - no actual discussion and when it was pointed out to him the errors of his decisions and what was actually in the firearms act, he abruptly ended the session. He obviously is oblivious to how an actual "conversation" or "discourse" happens - he simply doesn't want to listen and it's obvious the decisions being made have absolutely nothing to do with gun safety but an ideology that feels that no one should have guns - period. He is a liar that's for sure but so is his "Leader" so I guess he and other Ministers feel it's their prerogative to lie to Canadians at their leisure with no repercussions.
JMHO
JMHO
One of the newly prohibited shotguns is a BOLT ACTION shotgun made to look something like an AR 15. Now, I think the thing looks and is ridiculous.
But when did a simple aesthetic type make something a "variant"????
Any law they create will be used to the limit of possibility to steal your guns.
Think of the 20mm restriction.
But when did a simple aesthetic type make something a "variant"????
Any law they create will be used to the limit of possibility to steal your guns.
Think of the 20mm restriction.
I think there ought to be a table/chart matrix that fully explains why each model has been banned. If they are banning something only because it has a cool stock and a mean looking black finish, they ought to have the balls to admit it.
With that said, I don't think the Trudeau government wants to have to answer for their ignorance and poorly informed decisions. Their motives have always been insincere when it comes to firearms.
This is not a done deal, eventually the country will vote in another conservative government. Adding a rational and transparent process to the decision making might actually help us more than trying to repeal all of Trudeau's mess.
I think Trudeau is commiting political suicide here. He has already accelerated what was expected to be a 10 year process of dethroning the liberal government. Hell, he almost lost the last election. This is going to cause more of the swing vote to dig in their heals and not vote for him in the future. The liberal party will need a fresh face to gain momentum again.
Previous gun control measures have always been challenged by gun manufacturers introducing small changes in order to side step legislation - which is of course why you all have this hysterical need to define "assulat weapon"
This was all discussed in detail and if you had listened you would understand that.
The new legislation is robust and "evergreen" there is no way around it by the usual methods.
You tell us how a hand gun "ban" is going to reduce crime in Toronto since most of the handgun are illegally smuggled in!..... huh?
And please ...no sidestepping the question!
And please ...no sidestepping the question!
You are correct.
That applies even more strongly to the U.S. A far higher percentage of our shootings than yours are committed with handguns.
but we all agree that disarming alberta duck hunters is going to help resolve the smuggled handgun problem?
Probably not, but it might prevent them from rising up and slaughtering the Army.
this is an intrrview with bill blair that goes back to october 2019. Bill did not know that a handgun can not be locked in a secure room. Holy crap, that law has been around for well over a decade.
