Kinder Morgan announces suspension of Trans Mountain expansion

[Cliffy]

Forget Trans Mountain, here’s the sustainable way forward for Canada’s energy sector

Jeffrey D. Sachs is a professor at Columbia University and director of the Center for Sustainable Development and the UN Sustainable Development Solutions Network.
Oil seems to make politicians lose their bearings. The get-rich-quick mentality or too-much-to-lose thinking is very hard to overcome. Thus, two of Canada’s most progressive leaders, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Alberta Premier Rachel Notley, have both doubled down recently on Alberta oil sands and the pipelines to carry them to world markets. Whether Kinder Morgan’s controversial Trans Mountain expansion through British Columbia is built, or the company steps away from the project, remains uncertain. Either way, the truth is that Alberta oil sands have absolutely no place in a climate-safe world. Investing in them is almost surely to be investing in a future bankruptcy.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi.../+Media&utm_campaign=Shared+Web+Article+Links

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Don't be too hard on Cliffy.
He might be misguided, but he's still my favorite anarchist.

 

[OpposingDigit]

Hi! Petros

What about the ocean itself? Who has control of patrolling the shoreline? Checking licenses, safety, and inspections and all that jazz? Like what they do with fishing boats and stuff like that?

 

[Hoid]

Government is addicted to the money oil provides - it enables their ridiculous spending.


There is no difference, for instance, between energy east and KM expansion in terms of public benefit - in fact energy east would be arguably of more benefit.

The difference between the two is that Quebec has 80 liberal MPs and could sink the Trudeau government on a moments notice - while BC is a small province that can support the Liberals or not, it makes little difference.

 

[gerryh]

Government is addicted to the money oil provides - it enables their ridiculous spending.


There is no difference, for instance, between energy east and KM expansion in terms of public benefit - in fact energy east would be arguably of more benefit.

The difference between the two is that Quebec has 80 liberal MPs and could sink the Trudeau government on a moments notice - while BC is a small province that can support the Liberals or not, it makes little difference.

Do you realize how often you contradict yourself?

 

[Hoid]

oh and in terms of the public benefit Trudeau pointed out a number of times that the goal was to get this diluted bitumen to new foreign markets and sell it for more money thatn the Americans are willing to pay for it.

The same plan BC is pursuing for LNG.

Because the Chinese are stupid and they will pay anything you ask?

Rest assured nobody is more aware of these plans than the Chinese, so bringing them to fruition may not be as simple as we think.

 

[OpposingDigit]

Hi! Hoid

Lets not hold oil up for ransom and for environmental reasons ....

You should visit the mine sites in this country. Sudbury pumped out sulphuric acid by the ton. I used to cough and cough half the morning when I was a kid. The company town was in a valley and some mornings the air had an orange tinge to it.

Elliot Lake Ontario has rivers of radioactive waste. The Ontario government (Bill Davis, Conservative) paid the mining companies hugely with "Cost Plus" arrangements and then they walked away. Even in Yellowknife NWT is another example.

I could go on and on. I once visited every mine site in BC. I know exactly what I am talking about.

Worst is, after the mines are empty of metals, and the Capitalists walk away, the environmental clean up is paid for by governments.

The Nuclear Power industry is another example. Who is going to cover the cost of waste storage for a hundred thousand years?

 

[Cliffy]

 

[Hoid]

Hi! Hoid

Lets not hold oil up for ransom and for environmental reasons ....

You should visit the mine sites in this country. Sudbury pumped out sulphuric acid by the ton. I used to cough and cough half the morning when I was a kid. The company town was in a valley and some mornings the air had an orange tinge to it.

Elliot Lake Ontario has rivers of radioactive waste. The Ontario government (Bill Davis, Conservative) paid the mining companies hugely with "Cost Plus" arrangements and then they walked away. Even in Yellowknife NWT is another example.

I could go on and on. I once visited every mine site in BC. I know exactly what I am talking about.

Worst is, after the mines are empty of metals, and the Capitalists walk away, the environmental clean up is paid for by governments.

The Nuclear Power industry is another example. Who is going to cover the cost of waste storage for a hundred thousand years?

This argument is a non starter.

Something else being wrong does not make something else right.

Are there many threats to the environment? Yes. But that doesn't mean we simply except this one.

 

[DaSleeper]

Nope...... Fakebook

 

[gerryh]

Here, something a little more substantial and truthful than a meme.

http://www.bucksuzuki.org/images/uploads/docs/Hidden_Killer.pdf

CLARK DRIVE OUTFALL WORST The worst outfall empties into Burrard Inlet at the north end of Clark Drive. Because it is an industrial zone in the Port of Vancouver, most people are unaware of the huge volumes of raw sewage discharging regularly from this site, often on a continuous basis. A large area of the ocean floor is smothered by human feces, condoms, tampons and toilet paper. The plume from the outfall reaches as far as New Brighton Park.

 

[OpposingDigit]

Hi! Hoid

I am not comparing ..... I am telling you that all this jazz and cheery stuff about the economy and the environment working in partnership for the benefit of us all is a load of crap.

Lets just say that the oil pipeline is stopped ..... the Capitalists will just open up another mine site or another nuclear power site and walk away from it all when the mine or nuclear plant has handsomely paid off all its shareholders.

When it comes to the Capitalists ..... there is no such thing as environmentally friendly.

Realizing this, lets just get the pipeline built and monitor the shit out of it. Put some environmentalists on the Board. Make sure that the Parent Company and not just the Canadian subsidiary is held responsible for any damage to the environment and without any financial limits.

 

[Mowich]

You seem determined to set yourself up as some sort of nemesis to me. People like that find themselves on the Twit List

Nemesis - the inescapable agent of someone's or something's downfall. Oooh, such power you bestow upon my humble self, Hoid. Not too worry though, I am more than capable of being up to the challenge.

I would be most honored to be among those on your Twit list. Thank you.

Hi! Petros

What about the ocean itself? Who has control of patrolling the shoreline? Checking licenses, safety, and inspections and all that jazz? Like what they do with fishing boats and stuff like that?

Google it, OD

 

[Hoid]

Hi! Hoid

I am not comparing ..... I am telling you that all this jazz and cheery stuff about the economy and the environment working in partnership for the benefit of us all is a load of crap.

Lets just say that the oil pipeline is stopped ..... the Capitalists will just open up another mine site or another nuclear power site and walk away from it all when the mine or nuclear plant has handsomely paid off all its shareholders.

When it comes to the Capitalists ..... there is no such thing as environmentally friendly.

Realizing this, lets just get the pipeline built and monitor the shit out of it. Put some environmentalists on the Board. Make sure that the Parent Company and not just the Canadian subsidiary is held responsible for any damage to the environment and without any financial limits.

Sounds great but here is the sticking point: there is no way to clean this shit up. The whole "world class spill response" claim is just bullshit and anyone who works in the maritime environment knows it.

If we get a large spill off the west coast it is going to be devastating and all the flowery talk in the world is not going make any difference.

 

[Murphy]

Our resident 14 year old from the GTA has spoken. Still claiming to be a resident of BC.

Facts Waldo. You cannot make any points without facts. Look at Cliffy. That's you in 50 years, but Facebook will probably be gone. :lol:

 

[Mowich]

Trudeau pledges money, new law to make Trans Mountain happen, without details

(Whoa...don't they look all comfy and congenial )

​

OTTAWA — Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says he has instructed his finance minister to enter negotiations with Kinder Morgan to "remove the uncertainty" hanging over the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion.

Trudeau also says federal legislation is coming that will "reassert and reinforce" the fact that the federal government is well within its jurisdiction to approve the $7.4 billion project and ensure it goes ahead.

Finally, he says he's willing to expand and improve upon his government's $1.5 billion oceans protection plan in an effort to ensure the most stringent protections are available to reassure British Columbia its coasts are not at risk.

He's offering few details, however, saying the negotiations will not take place in public. Despite that, it is the most concrete Trudeau has been yet about how his government intends to solve the impasse that led Kinder Morgan to suspend all non-essential spending on the expansion project pending reassurance from Ottawa the pipeline will be able to go forward.

"Ideally, we wouldn't be in this situation right now," Trudeau told a news conference Sunday after a closely watched, last-minute meeting with B.C. Premier John Horgan, who is blocking the project, and Alberta Premier Rachel Notley, who desperately wants to see it go ahead.

Trudeau would not go as far as others to call the pipeline impasse a "constitutional crisis" but laid all the blame for the situation at Horgan's feet. The pipeline was approved in 2016 with the support of the former B.C. Liberal government of Christy Clark. Horgan defeated Clark in an election last year.

"I don't think it's any surprise to anyone that I don't think we would be in this situation if the British Columbia government hadn't continued to emphasize its opposition to the project," Trudeau said. "That is why we are at this point right now."

Although both Horgan and Notley came out of the meeting saying it was collegial and cooperative, neither is coming out of their entrenchments. Horgan said the promised court reference question to verify what jurisdiction, if any, B.C. has over the pipeline and its contents, is coming "within days."

He said he'd hoped to have it done earlier but these questions are complicated and take time to put together right.

Notley said legislation she promised that will allow it to alter flows of oil through the existing Trans Mountain pipeline into B.C. is going to be introduced in the Alberta legislature this week. Analysts suggest that could hike gas prices in the Lower Mainland over $2 per litre and would have an immediate, economy-wide impact on the province.

Trudeau said while his government is committed to working with both premiers to find a solution, "we must recognize that they remain at an impasse which only the government of Canada has the capacity and the authority to resolve."

The legislation is expected to reassert, in addition to the Constitution, Ottawa's authority over pipelines. This is a bid to try and take the wind out the sails of Horgan's court challenge.

Financially the government has options that include assuming some of the investor's risk or finding a way to guarantee investor returns on schedule. Trudeau said he is "not ready" to say Canada is buying the pipeline outright or even putting in an equity stake. He said whatever financial arrangement is reached will include protections for taxpayers.

"We engaged in financial discussions with the pipeline owner, Kinder Morgan," he said. "This is a series of discussions that are happening in Calgary, Toronto, Houston and New York. They won't happen in public. As soon as we have something to announce I promise you we will let you know."

Horgan said he'd received assurances from Trudeau that he would not "punish" British Columbians over their government's objections, meaning Ottawa isn't going to be withholding federal funds from B.C. in an effort to get the Horgan government on side.

Trudeau said he is also willing to discuss with Horgan additional environmental protections that could give B.C. confidence over its shorelines and marine environments, but accused Horgan of refusing to tell him for nearly a year what gaps Horgan feels exist in the existing or promised protections under the Oceans Protections Plan.

More..........Trudeau pledges money, new law to make Trans Mountain happen, without details

​

 

[petros]

Good.

 

[OpposingDigit]

Trudeau is going to expropriate the land.

 

[petros]

Where?

 

[Hoid]

Trudeau is going to expropriate the land.

Trudeau is going to do nothing.