Canadian Generals (ret) Say Peace Keeping No longer Exists

[Murphy]

What has said that is so earth shaking here? That the UN should stop calling themselves Peace Keepers?

It appears you wish confrontation. Fine.

The UN is not the subject of General MacKenzie's comments. Having been on peacekeeping missions, he correctly points out that CDN troops are going into areas of conflict and will engage armed individuals. It isn't about monitoring truces, walking borders and working checkpoints anymore. It hasn't been for years.

The missions have changed, and that's what makes them more dangerous for the troops sent there. A different skill set is needed to deal with the situation. Peacekeeping used to involve easing tensions between individuals or groups of people. Negotiation, avoiding gunfire and waving the UN flag was the old way of doing business. That is impossible to do these days. Factions are still actively fighting in these areas. They don't give a rat's ass about blue berets or maple leafs. They are just aiming points. These groups will engage any soldiers who they do not recognize.

There is also the political minefield at home. Politicians and Canadian civilians will whine at the drop of a hat when the shooting starts. And it will.

 

[Hoid]

You are rapidly descending to the level of Mentalfloss, who if he could float an idea, would be pond scum.

Deal with the debate, or STFU.

BTW, from wikipedia:

Nice cherry picking there.

This is fro the same article - as you know -

Somalia Commission of Inquiry[edit]
Lewis MacKenzie was criticised by the Somalia Commission of Inquiry for his contribution to the Somalia Affair after Canadian Forces in Somalia committed human rights abuses and breaches of international humanitarian law and members of the Canadian command were found to have engaged in a subsequent cover-up.[4] [5]

The Commission observed that MacKenzie testified in an honest and straightforward manner; it did not always accept everything that he said but accepted that he offered the truth as he saw it. It found that his superiors' desire to parade his successes as a bona fide hero of the Canadian Forces had impaired his ability to supervise and control matters that were his core responsibilities.

The Commission found that MacKenzie had failed adequately to investigate the significant leadership and discipline problems in the Canadian Airborne Regiment, to inform himself of the problems and to take decisive remedial steps to ensure they were adequately resolved. In addition, it found that he did not adequately monitor the Regiment's training to ensure its development as a cohesive unit or make adequate provisions for the troops to be trained or tested on its newly developed Rules of Engagement and failed to direct and supervise the training of the Canadian Joint Force Somalia personnel in the Law of Armed Conflict for peace support operations.

The Commission further ruled that MacKenzie had important obligations as a commander and so bore responsibility for the failures that attached to the discharge of those obligations. His role was pivotal and despite the fact that he was necessarily absent from his post due to obligations condoned by his superiors, errors in the chain of command below him remained his responsibility and flowed upwards from him to the highest levels of the command structure.[6]

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Oh Bullshyte.

The smearing of the Airborne Regiment and the subsequent dissolution of that proud entity is simply a disgrace, a black mark on the face of civilian leadership. Ever is it so......send men to do a difficult mission in impossible circumstances to further your own political goals, and when things go bad, find some one to fry for it. It doesn't matter who.

A complete disgrace.

Especially the railroading of Kyle Brown, the only trooper that reported the on-going mistreatment of the prisoner to a superior officer. Someone had to go to prison, and Matchee was unfit.

Mackenzie was a hero in Bosnia, in the very best sense of the word.

He is a combat soldier, not a phucking community organizer.

Now, once again, try dealing with what he said.

Was he the Canadian commander who came across a Serbian roadblock and just rammed his tank through and dared the Serbs to start something? I remember that incident (don't know if it was McKenzie), and admired the balls on the boy.

 

[Hoid]

He was the Canadian Officer who got everybody below him and above him shit canned.

That's who Lew Mackenzie is.

(now you understand why he's a conservative candidate)

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

He was the Canadian Officer who got everybody below him and above him shit canned.

That's who Lew Mackenzie is.

(now you understand why he's a conservative candidate)

I'd need to know the circumstances. There are times when "shitcanning" your subordinates is the duty of a commander.

 

[Hoid]

You would need to know the circumstances of a widely publicized event?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

You would need to know the circumstances of a widely publicized event?

Yes. Hate to break it to you, buddy, but the internal workings of the Canadian army ain't on my "check for updates every morning" list. And I'm very well-informed on Canada and its issues, for a Yank. Most of us couldn't name two provinces to save our lives.

 

[Hoid]

Yes. Hate to break it to you, buddy, but the internal workings of the Canadian army ain't on my "check for updates every morning" list. And I'm very well-informed on Canada and its issues, for a Yank. Most of us couldn't name two provinces to save our lives.

hate to break it to ya buddy but if you read the wiki thing I posted you would have the info.

actually here you go, pal


Somalia Commission of Inquiry[edit]
Lewis MacKenzie was criticised by the Somalia Commission of Inquiry for his contribution to the Somalia Affair after Canadian Forces in Somalia committed human rights abuses and breaches of international humanitarian law and members of the Canadian command were found to have engaged in a subsequent cover-up.[4] [5]

The Commission observed that MacKenzie testified in an honest and straightforward manner; it did not always accept everything that he said but accepted that he offered the truth as he saw it. It found that his superiors' desire to parade his successes as a bona fide hero of the Canadian Forces had impaired his ability to supervise and control matters that were his core responsibilities.

The Commission found that MacKenzie had failed adequately to investigate the significant leadership and discipline problems in the Canadian Airborne Regiment, to inform himself of the problems and to take decisive remedial steps to ensure they were adequately resolved. In addition, it found that he did not adequately monitor the Regiment's training to ensure its development as a cohesive unit or make adequate provisions for the troops to be trained or tested on its newly developed Rules of Engagement and failed to direct and supervise the training of the Canadian Joint Force Somalia personnel in the Law of Armed Conflict for peace support operations.

The Commission further ruled that MacKenzie had important obligations as a commander and so bore responsibility for the failures that attached to the discharge of those obligations. His role was pivotal and despite the fact that he was necessarily absent from his post due to obligations condoned by his superiors, errors in the chain of command below him remained his responsibility and flowed upwards from him to the highest levels of the command structure.[6]

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

hate to break it to ya buddy but if you read the wiki thing I posted you would have the info.

Hate to break it to ya, buddy, but a five-paragraph wiki isn't enough for any intelligent, knowledgeable person to base a conclusion on.

If I have some time on my hands in the next week or so, I'll do a deep enough dive into this to form a reasoned, informed opinion.

 

[Hoid]

I find it mildly offensive that you don't even know what the Somalia Inquiry was.

It makes me wonder why you are even here.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I find it mildly offensive that you don't even know what the Somalia Inquiry was.

It makes me wonder why you are even here.

Good. Mulling that over will give you something to do.

As for your offense, allow me to apologize for not giving a shit.

 

[Colpy]

He was the Canadian Officer who got everybody below him and above him shit canned.

That's who Lew Mackenzie is.

(now you understand why he's a conservative candidate)

Yes, Moron.

That is why they award you the Vimy Award and the Order of Canada.

hate to break it to ya buddy but if you read the wiki thing I posted you would have the info.

actually here you go, pal


Somalia Commission of Inquiry[edit]
Lewis MacKenzie was criticised by the Somalia Commission of Inquiry for his contribution to the Somalia Affair after Canadian Forces in Somalia committed human rights abuses and breaches of international humanitarian law and members of the Canadian command were found to have engaged in a subsequent cover-up.[4] [5]

The Commission observed that MacKenzie testified in an honest and straightforward manner; it did not always accept everything that he said but accepted that he offered the truth as he saw it. It found that his superiors' desire to parade his successes as a bona fide hero of the Canadian Forces had impaired his ability to supervise and control matters that were his core responsibilities.

The Commission found that MacKenzie had failed adequately to investigate the significant leadership and discipline problems in the Canadian Airborne Regiment, to inform himself of the problems and to take decisive remedial steps to ensure they were adequately resolved. In addition, it found that he did not adequately monitor the Regiment's training to ensure its development as a cohesive unit or make adequate provisions for the troops to be trained or tested on its newly developed Rules of Engagement and failed to direct and supervise the training of the Canadian Joint Force Somalia personnel in the Law of Armed Conflict for peace support operations.

The Commission further ruled that MacKenzie had important obligations as a commander and so bore responsibility for the failures that attached to the discharge of those obligations. His role was pivotal and despite the fact that he was necessarily absent from his post due to obligations condoned by his superiors, errors in the chain of command below him remained his responsibility and flowed upwards from him to the highest levels of the command structure.[6]

My emphasis.

In other words, he was a scapegoat, same as the Regiment itself.

Now DEAL WITH THE SUBJECT MATTER.

Troll.

To remind you: Is "peacekeeping" possible today,or is the Liberal devotion to the idea their typical idiotic and counter productive virtue signalling?

 

[Hoid]

Yes, Colpy

What about the Somalia thing where it all happened under his (lack of) command and the blame went up and the blame went down?

Who was in charge when the Airborne got shit canned?

 

[Colpy]

Yes, Colpy

What about the Somalia thing where it all happened under his (lack of) command and the blame went up and the blame went down?

Who was in charge when the Airborne got shit canned?

Idiot.

Do you see "Lewis MacKenzie" listed here?

Airborne Regimental Commanders

July 3rd, 2007 by Rob

The following is a list of the Regimental Commanders of the Airborne Regiment
from its inception in 1968 until the disbandment in 1995. In 1992, the title
changed to the Commanding Officer Canadian Airborne Regiment.
Col D.H. Rochester, OBE, CD 1968 – 1969 Col R.G. Therriault, CD 1969 – 1971 Col H.C Pitts, MC, CD 1971 – 1973 Col G.H. Lessard, CMM, MB, O St J, CD 1973 – 1975 Col I.S. Fraser, OMM, CD 1975 – 1977 Col J.J. Painchaud, CD 1977 – 1978 Col K.R. Foster, OMM, CD 1978 – 1980 Col R.L. Cowling, CD 1980 – 1982 Col I.C. Douglas, CD 1982 – 1985 Col J.M.R. Gaudreau, CD 1985 – 1987 Col M.J.R. Houghton, CD 1987 – 1990 Col W.M Holmes 1990 – 1992 LCol P.R. Morneault 1992 LCol J.C.A Mathieu 1992 – 1993 LCol P. Kenward 1993 – 1995



































Commando.org » Airborne Regimental Commanders

 

[Hoid]

Idiot.

Do you see "Lewis MacKenzie" listed here?

Airborne Regimental Commanders

July 3rd, 2007 by Rob

The following is a list of the Regimental Commanders of the Airborne Regiment
from its inception in 1968 until the disbandment in 1995. In 1992, the title
changed to the Commanding Officer Canadian Airborne Regiment.
Col D.H. Rochester, OBE, CD 1968 – 1969 Col R.G. Therriault, CD 1969 – 1971 Col H.C Pitts, MC, CD 1971 – 1973 Col G.H. Lessard, CMM, MB, O St J, CD 1973 – 1975 Col I.S. Fraser, OMM, CD 1975 – 1977 Col J.J. Painchaud, CD 1977 – 1978 Col K.R. Foster, OMM, CD 1978 – 1980 Col R.L. Cowling, CD 1980 – 1982 Col I.C. Douglas, CD 1982 – 1985 Col J.M.R. Gaudreau, CD 1985 – 1987 Col M.J.R. Houghton, CD 1987 – 1990 Col W.M Holmes 1990 – 1992 LCol P.R. Morneault 1992 LCol J.C.A Mathieu 1992 – 1993 LCol P. Kenward 1993 – 1995



Commando.org » Airborne Regimental Commanders

"...The Commission further ruled that MacKenzie had important obligations as a commander and so bore responsibility for the failures that attached to the discharge of those obligations. His role was pivotal and despite the fact that he was necessarily absent from his post due to obligations condoned by his superiors, errors in the chain of command below him remained his responsibility and flowed upwards from him to the highest levels of the command structure.[6]



What happened to the Airborne and what happened to the CDS?

They both got fired.

 

[Danbones]

The Siege of Jadotville (2016)
The Siege of Jadotville (2016) - IMDb

This is what happens to heroic COLONIAL peace keepers when it's time to head for the escape goats. This is a movie about Irish peace keepers in Africa, but it tells the same old same old well story enough.

Beyond that moral it's just a VERY GOOD MOVIE

I have a great deal of respect for Mackenzie, being a sensible as he was, he was bound to get poolitially[sic] smashed sooner or later by a pencil pushing poolitical[sic] hack job.

 

[petros]

What happened to the Airborne and what happened to the CDS?

A name change.

 

[Hoid]

The Regiment was betrayed by their own Command. They took the blame. Command offered up a few sacrificial lambs and the officers who collaborated in the betrayal were rewarded.

It was quintessential Canadian politics and the future failed Conservative candidate for parliament was all over it.

 

[Angstrom]

Liberals have always had a warped view of reality!

Believing in a communist ideology will do that.

 

[Hoid]

Yes, Moron.

That is why they award you the Vimy Award and the Order of Canada.



My emphasis.

In other words, he was a scapegoat, same as the Regiment itself.

Now DEAL WITH THE SUBJECT MATTER.

Troll.

To remind you: Is "peacekeeping" possible today,or is the Liberal devotion to the idea their typical idiotic and counter productive virtue signalling?

Yes he was a scapegoat who got promoted.

The scapegoat was the Canadian Airborne Regiment.

Yes, Moron.

That is why they award you the Vimy Award and the Order of Canada.



My emphasis.

In other words, he was a scapegoat, same as the Regiment itself.

Now DEAL WITH THE SUBJECT MATTER.

Troll.

To remind you: Is "peacekeeping" possible today,or is the Liberal devotion to the idea their typical idiotic and counter productive virtue signalling?

Yes he was a scapegoat who got promoted.

The scapegoat was the Canadian Airborne Regiment.

as for the subject matter I agree with every pundit who points out that "peace keeper" is probably an obsolete term. Hardly an Earth-shattering observation.