Canadian polygamy law on trial for the first time in 127 years

[White_Unifier]

I do have a question though. why would a man want more than one wife? Treating them all equally would be impossible and that would be bound to lead to conflict or at least ill feelings between them.

Heck, let's just reverse the tables for a moment. How comfortable do you think I'd be with my wife taking a second husband?

OK, I know, not all men are the same just as not women are the same, but still, I can imagine that most would not be happy with such an arrangement.

 

[Goober]

B.C. polygamous sect member Gail Blackmore appeals conviction
THE CANADIAN PRESS
First posted: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 08:39 PM EDT | Updated: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 08:45 PM EDT
CRANBROOK, B.C. — A British Columbia woman wants her conviction overturned after she was sentenced to seven months in jail for taking a 13-year-old girl to the United States to marry the leader of a polygamous church.
Gail Blackmore has filed an appeal arguing B.C. Supreme Court Justice Paul Pearlman was wrong to find her guilty and imposed a sentence that is unduly harsh and excessive.
Blackmore and her former husband, Brandon Blackmore, were found guilty in February of removing a child from Canada for a sexual purpose.
Their trial heard that the girl was taken across the border in 2004 to marry Warren Jeffs, head of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, who is now serving a life sentence for assaulting two of his child brides.
In his sentencing decision, Pearlman says neither Blackmore displayed any remorse for marrying the girl to a man who was 49 years old at the time.
Blackmore’s lawyer, Greg DelBigio, declined to comment on the appeal.
B.C. polygamous sect member Gail Blackmore appeals conviction | Canada | News |

Age in the US is 18, Nebraska 19 - 16 or 17 with parents consent in many States.Canada 18 - same as the US under 18-16 to 17- parents consent.

 

[Decapoda]

I don’t hate any group.

Oh right, your thing is intolerance..
Canada is not a part of Western Civilization...right?
There are too many white Brits in Canada and they need to be sent back to where they came from...right?
Canada needs to accept more Muslim refugees...right?

Yeah, that's what I thought. You may not get banned here, but don't expect people around here to put up with your garbage without some stiff opposition.

As far as the OP goes, I tend to agree with your position that when the definition of marriage was extended from being between a man and a woman to whatever and whatever, it pretty much opened the door to multiple partner marriages. I have no issue if you want to have multiple wives, I just don't agree with putting them all into black bags with eye holes.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

The penalty for bigamy is two wives.

 

[White_Unifier]

The penalty for bigamy is two wives.

One wife is a blessing. Two would be a curse!

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Age in the US is 18, Nebraska 19 - 16 or 17 with parents consent in many States.Canada 18 - same as the US under 18-16 to 17- parents consent.

Age in the U.S. is set by the states. There is no national age of consent.

 

[ZulFiqar786]

I do have a question though. why would a man want more than one wife? Treating them all equally would be impossible and that would be bound to lead to conflict or at least ill feelings between them.

Heck, let's just reverse the tables for a moment. How comfortable do you think I'd be with my wife taking a second husband?

OK, I know, not all men are the same just as not women are the same, but still, I can imagine that most would not be happy with such an arrangement.

Polygyny comes natural to the pre-modern Arabs. It has everything to do with social and cultural conditioning. You will find that people who are ex-cessively devoted to and enamored by their wives tend to be weak and un-spiritual. They do not have a satisfying intimate relationship with the Royalty and so seek to substitute the emptiness with extreme devotion and ado-ration of their spouse. I’m not saying you shouldn’t love your wife, but everything has to be in moderation and in the right balance. If you make your wife into an idol of course polygyny will be repulsive to you. The fact of the matter is that devotion to your spouse when it goes overboard is quite unhealthy, especially considering what such extreme devotion risks given the instability of this life. So there is no substitute for a person’s spiritual and emotional connection to his Maker, not even the relationship with his wife. Therefore, when you have this psychology, you will see that polygyny is not at all repulsive. It is totally human nature of the male to want variety of partners. If your wife dies will you not remarry? Many people also get divorced. All this shows that the husband wife relationship, though very important and ought to be cherished, is not the supreme relationship. It is definitely possible to love multiple women simultaneously as long as that love does not penetrate too deep into the heart that it becomes a form of idolatry. The fact that the husband wife relationship isn’t meant to be at such a level is self evident when you think about how initially the relation-ship is very romantic and intense, but as time goes on, children are born, both become more mature and hormones begin to subside, the relationship kind of cools off and loses the intensity. This is completely natural. Many men make the mistake of thinking they need to divorce their wife because the chemistry they had together in high school or college years has subsided. This is a fatal blunder. As I said it is the natural course of any romantic relationship. In order to reinvigorate one’s emotions, instead of divorcing one’s wife and finding another love partner, such men should simply practice polygyny. They will find that at some times they are more intensely in-volved with one wife while the relationship with the other is a bit cool. But this is fluid and things go up and down. Hence polygyny is very advantageous for a man’s emotional needs. As for equal treatment, the Qur’an it-self has said it is ultimately impossible because it isn’t within human nature to 100% treat everyone equally. We don’t even treat our children equally no matter how much we try to do so.

Oh right, your thing is intolerance..
Canada is not a part of Western Civilization...right?
There are too many white Brits in Canada and they need to be sent back to where they came from...right?
Canada needs to accept more Muslim refugees...right?

Yeah, that's what I thought. You may not get banned here, but don't expect people around here to put up with your garbage without some stiff opposition.


[/FONT][/COLOR]

Canada shouldn't be part of Western civilization, because Canada doesn't belong to any single racial group. Western civilization is the civilization of White European people. So long as Canada is considered a "Western" country it will always be dominated by Whites and there will always be a hurdle for racial minorities. Since Canada's first nations were here before anyone else, and historically suffered genocide after the arrival of the Europeans in 1492, it is only fair to allow them to define what Canada is. Otherwise Canada must not be part of any civilization, but simply a State with many different nations and cultures that are interacting in a common economic and political system, but not a single cultural system.

I don't say there are too many Brits in Canada. Only that Brits who have arrived in Canada quite recently behave as though Canada is their "holiday home". It is disturbing that Brits who arrived in Canada literally yesterday suddenly become political and social leaders and lead the socio-political narrative of Canada, despite the fact that there are people in Canada who have been here much longer, but because they are ethnic minorities or visible minorities they do not have the political and social capital of a Brit who came to Canada just last week. This is a symptom of a big problem in Canada which needs to be addressed. I think a similar problem exists in the US. Educated Brits come to America and suddenly they become influential political and social leaders. The late Christopher Hitchens comes to mind.

As for Muslim refugees, yes Canada needs to accept a lot more Syrian, Iraqi, Afghan and Rohingya refugees, but also non-Muslim refugees, like Haitians who are being coming to us from south of the border, and also Mexicans and Chicanos who are unjustly being deported from the US too.

 

[White_Unifier]

Of course you're right. god comes first and we should not make an idol of our spouses. However, to put it simply, I love my wife too much for me to take a second wife. And to be clear, it's not because my wife is jealous. IN fact, I have female friends and she has no problem with that at all. But that's very different from polygamy which is only a notch better than adultery.

 

[Decapoda]

Canada shouldn't be part of Western civilization, because Canada doesn't belong to any single racial group. Western civilization is the civilization of White European people. So long as Canada is considered a "Western" country it will always be dominated by Whites and there will always be a hurdle for racial minorities. Since Canada's first nations were here before anyone else, and historically suffered genocide after the arrival of the Europeans in 1492, it is only fair to allow them to define what Canada is. Otherwise Canada must not be part of any civilization, but simply a State with many different nations and cultures that are interacting in a common economic and political system, but not a single cultural system.

I don't say there are too many Brits in Canada. Only that Brits who have arrived in Canada quite recently behave as though Canada is their "holiday home". It is disturbing that Brits who arrived in Canada literally yesterday suddenly become political and social leaders and lead the socio-political narrative of Canada, despite the fact that there are people in Canada who have been here much longer, but because they are ethnic minorities or visible minorities they do not have the political and social capital of a Brit who came to Canada just last week. This is a symptom of a big problem in Canada which needs to be addressed. I think a similar problem exists in the US. Educated Brits come to America and suddenly they become influential political and social leaders. The late Christopher Hitchens comes to mind.

As for Muslim refugees, yes Canada needs to accept a lot more Syrian, Iraqi, Afghan and Rohingya refugees, but also non-Muslim refugees, like Haitians who are being coming to us from south of the border, and also Mexicans and Chicanos who are unjustly being deported from the US too.

People in Canada become political leaders through the will of it's citizens, Canada is a democracy. What you are really upset about is that the number of Muslims in Canada has not yet reached a "critical mass" whereby there are sufficient numbers of Muslims to control the political and social agenda. I know you are confident that this will change over time, and I fear you may be right about that given the stupid decisions our inept Government and it's clueless leader continue to make.

What you and your Muslim friends don't seem to understand is that although Canada has had a robust immigration and refugee acceptance policy the last number of years, we still have our own culture...Canadian culture. Many Canadians resent the fact that people from different countries feel it's there divine right to come to Canada and try and change our culture and our values to more closely align with theirs rather than accept the culture and values of the host country which has graciously let them in.

What you espouse is intolerant racism, pure and simple. Stating that white Europeans should be sent back to where they came from is intolerant and is a very transparent confirmation of why you're here and what you're trying to do. Canada rejects Sharia law, Canada does not put women in black bags or treat them like property, we don't stone gays, and Islam is not the dominant religion. We have no problem with allowing people of any race or ethnicity into the country, just use the proper immigration channels and don't think you can jump the cue by calling yourself a refugee if you're not. And for gods sake, leave you're baggage behind and learn to integrate and accept the culture of the new country you have chosen to be a part of. Have some respect for the hosts who have welcomed you into their home.

 

[ZulFiqar786]

What you and your Muslim friends don't seem to understand is that although Canada has had a robust immigration and refugee acceptance policy the last number of years, we still have our own culture...Canadian culture. Many Canadians resent the fact that people from different countries feel it's there divine right to come to Canada and try and change our culture and our values to more closely align with theirs rather than accept the culture and values of the host country which has graciously let them in.

Culture isn’t something static, it is constantly changing. Cultures which are more robust, ingrained and produce good results are bound to take over ones which are weaker. Case in point, Islamic culture is much more ingrained among Muslims than whatever so-called “Canadian” culture is, given that most Canadians can’t even define what “Canadian” culture is. I mean if by Canadian culture you mean maple syrup, hockey, drinking beer, fishing, etc., I already see that this culture isn’t very strong in the urban parts of Canada among more educated classes, which are virtually indistinguishable from urban America. Nevertheless, Muslims aren’t here to change “Canadian” culture (whatever that is). But people like you think Muslims are changing your culture by not adapting to it. If we Muslims don’t drink, for example (like some other religious groups) how is that harming you or changing your culture? You keep your culture and we keep ours, that’s the whole point of multiculturalism. It’s not our culture to keep pet dogs, which we consider a ritually unclean animal, likewise, we are discouraged from watching TV, going to the cinema. We have a strong code of traditional gender roles and gender segregation, which we find strengthens the family, and which is why we have the potential to thrive. Without strong family structure society goes down the drain. Many people in Canada live empty lives, they are drunkards, depressed, committing suicide, etc. Our culture and way of life is more durable because it is more disciplined, spiritual, and constructive.

What you espouse is intolerant racism, pure and simple. Stating that white Europeans should be sent back to where they came from is intolerant and is a very transparent confirmation of why you're here and what you're trying to do. Canada rejects Sharia law, Canada does not put women in black bags or treat them like property, we don't stone gays, and Islam is not the dominant religion.

Where is Shari’a law being enforced in Canada? Actually you don’t know anything about Shari’a except what you learn from the media. Shari’a is not simply a penal code, it encompasses every aspect of life, containing laws regarding behavior, diet, dress, worship, purification, hygiene, government, family, marriage, sexuality, custody, divorce, speech, etc. Where Muslims live as minorities, we follow Shari’a voluntarily where we can. There are other aspects of Shari’a, such as the penal code for certain crimes like theft, murder, adultery, sodomy, rape, intoxication, etc., which can only be implemented by a government, not individual Muslims. Therefore this scaremongering about Shari’a laws and stoning “gays” to death here in Canada reveals your deep ignorance. Muslims in Canada aren’t trying to impose Shari’a law on the entire country, even if that was our intention it is totally unachievable given we are not even a tenth of the population. But we are insisting on following our own values and moral teachings and way of life, and thankfully that is not contravening any of Canada’s laws. At most you can say that Muslims are not following your European culture here in Canada, but Canada’s policy of multiculturalism allows for that anyways. If you think we Muslims should start drinking beer, our women should go half naked, we should start keeping dogs that we bathe in our own bath tub and let sleep in our own bed, that we should start eating pork, going to late night parties, etc., it’s simply not going to happen.

We have no problem with allowing people of any race or ethnicity into the country, just use the proper immigration channels and don't think you can jump the cue by calling yourself a refugee if you're not. And for gods sake, leave you're baggage behind and learn to integrate and accept the culture of the new country you have chosen to be a part of. Have some respect for the hosts who have welcomed you into their home.

Who are the “hosts”? It certainly cannot be White Europeans who stole this land from the First Nations whom they genocided. If anyone deserves to be a “host” it is them. But the reality is that there are not hosts and no guests in Canada. Canada is not an ethno state. It doesn’t belong to White people. Canada is for everyone who is a Canadian citizen. Funny you accuse me of racism, but racism is all over your remarks about being the “host” and we Muslims are the “guests” in your house. This house doesn’t belong to you neither are you the host.

 

[Durry]

Everybody likes European White people, people from all over the world want to go to White countries, especially Muslims

 

[ZulFiqar786]

Everybody likes European White people, people from all over the world want to go to White countries, especially Muslims

Canada isn’t a White country, doesn’t belong to White people. White people are from Europe.

 

[Decapoda]

Culture isn’t something static, it is constantly changing. Cultures which are more robust, ingrained and produce good results are bound to take over ones which are weaker. Case in point, Islamic culture is much more ingrained among Muslims than whatever so-called “Canadian” culture is, given that most Canadians can’t even define what “Canadian” culture is. I mean if by Canadian culture you mean maple syrup, hockey, drinking beer, fishing, etc., I already see that this culture isn’t very strong in the urban parts of Canada among more educated classes, which are virtually indistinguishable from urban America. Nevertheless, Muslims aren’t here to change “Canadian” culture (whatever that is). But people like you think Muslims are changing your culture by not adapting to it. If we Muslims don’t drink, for example (like some other religious groups) how is that harming you or changing your culture? You keep your culture and we keep ours, that’s the whole point of multiculturalism. It’s not our culture to keep pet dogs, which we consider a ritually unclean animal, likewise, we are discouraged from watching TV, going to the cinema. We have a strong code of traditional gender roles and gender segregation, which we find strengthens the family, and which is why we have the potential to thrive. Without strong family structure society goes down the drain. Many people in Canada live empty lives, they are drunkards, depressed, committing suicide, etc. Our culture and way of life is more durable because it is more disciplined, spiritual, and constructive.

Culture is dynamic within the bounds of the society to which it’s reflective of. In other words, culture is a representation of the cumulative values of the population. When the values of the population are systematically diluted through destructive immigration and refugee policies, the culture will indeed reflect that.
The fact that you can’t define Canadian culture beyond drinking beer and playing hockey shows your extreme ignorance of the culture you have decided to immerse yourself in. The fact you believe that the average Canadian is a suicidal, depressed drunk with no regard for spirituality shows how incredibly ignorant you actually are of your fellow citizens. I understand you see weakness in Canadian culture; it’s not surprising, I’m sure you’ve been immersing yourself in the words of our bubble-headed leader who declares that Canada is a post-national state. Some of our leaders are trying very hard these days to satisfy your desire to kill Canadian values in an effort to increase their voter base and signal their virtue. I also understand that there are those such as yourself ready to buy into what you hear, to exploit our weak leaders and their aimless, dangerous policies and “take over a weaker culture” as you say. It’s true that Canada is passive, but Canada is not weak. Unfortunately cultures such as yours cannot seem to distinguish between the two.

Where is Shari’a law being enforced in Canada? Actually you don’t know anything about Shari’a except what you learn from the media. Shari’a is not simply a penal code, it encompasses every aspect of life, containing laws regarding behavior, diet, dress, worship, purification, hygiene, government, family, marriage, sexuality, custody, divorce, speech, etc. Where Muslims live as minorities, we follow Shari’a voluntarily where we can. There are other aspects of Shari’a, such as the penal code for certain crimes like theft, murder, adultery, sodomy, rape, intoxication, etc., which can only be implemented by a government, not individual Muslims. Therefore this scaremongering about Shari’a laws and stoning “gays” to death here in Canada reveals your deep ignorance. Muslims in Canada aren’t trying to impose Shari’a law on the entire country, even if that was our intention it is totally unachievable given we are not even a tenth of the population. But we are insisting on following our own values and moral teachings and way of life, and thankfully that is not contravening any of Canada’s laws. At most you can say that Muslims are not following your European culture here in Canada, but Canada’s policy of multiculturalism allows for that anyways. If you think we Muslims should start drinking beer, our women should go half naked, we should start keeping dogs that we bathe in our own bath tub and let sleep in our own bed, that we should start eating pork, going to late night parties, etc., it’s simply not going to happen.

I couldn’t possibly care less about Sharia Law, this is Canada.

Who are the “hosts”? It certainly cannot be White Europeans who stole this land from the First Nations whom they genocided. If anyone deserves to be a “host” it is them. But the reality is that there are not hosts and no guests in Canada. Canada is not an ethno state. It doesn’t belong to White people. Canada is for everyone who is a Canadian citizen. Funny you accuse me of racism, but racism is all over your remarks about being the “host” and we Muslims are the “guests” in your house. This house doesn’t belong to you neither are you the host.

This truly displays your arrogance toward a people who have welcomed you with open arms, and it’s pathetic. This mysterious host you are having trouble identifying is the Country of Canada. I cannot argue that natives got a raw deal a couple of hundred years ago, but do you really think things would be any different if Europeans had not settled in North America? Do you really think that this vast continent would still be teeming with buffalo and populated by North American Indians? You talk about genocide of Indigenous People, yet your motive is exactly the same. You declare that white Europeans should go back home and are resentful that the political and social leaders reflect the values and culture of this country instead of Muslim culture, and you count the days until there sufficient numbers of Muslims in Canada to truly declare that this country is not part of Western society. You are a hypocrite.

 

[ZulFiqar786]

Culture is dynamic within the bounds of the society to which it’s reflective of. In other words, culture is a representation of the cumulative values of the population. When the values of the population are systematically diluted through destructive immigration and refugee policies, the culture will indeed reflect that.
The fact that you can’t define Canadian culture beyond drinking beer and playing hockey shows your extreme ignorance of the culture you have decided to immerse yourself in. The fact you believe that the average Canadian is a suicidal, depressed drunk with no regard for spirituality shows how incredibly ignorant you actually are of your fellow citizens. I understand you see weakness in Canadian culture; it’s not surprising, I’m sure you’ve been immersing yourself in the words of our bubble-headed leader who declares that Canada is a post-national state. Some of our leaders are trying very hard these days to satisfy your desire to kill Canadian values in an effort to increase their voter base and signal their virtue. I also understand that there are those such as yourself ready to buy into what you hear, to exploit our weak leaders and their aimless, dangerous policies and “take over a weaker culture” as you say. It’s true that Canada is passive, but Canada is not weak. Unfortunately cultures such as yours cannot seem to distinguish between the two.



I couldn’t possibly care less about Sharia Law, this is Canada.


This truly displays your arrogance toward a people who have welcomed you with open arms, and it’s pathetic. This mysterious host you are having trouble identifying is the Country of Canada. I cannot argue that natives got a raw deal a couple of hundred years ago, but do you really think things would be any different if Europeans had not settled in North America? Do you really think that this vast continent would still be teeming with buffalo and populated by North American Indians? You talk about genocide of Indigenous People, yet your motive is exactly the same. You declare that white Europeans should go back home and are resentful that the political and social leaders reflect the values and culture of this country instead of Muslim culture, and you count the days until there sufficient numbers of Muslims in Canada to truly declare that this country is not part of Western society. You are a hypocrite.

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I’ve asked people here several times to define Canadian values and explain what Canadian culture is. The only response I get is how Canada is not Islamic and disagrees with Islamic values and culture. In other words, they want to define Canada through negation, but cannot find anything to posit. Defining yourself as “not Muslim” is a sign of weakness, especially since we define ourselves as Muslim. Our identity is positive affirmation. Your identity of “not Muslim” means you have no identity, you define yourself as not being us and that’s it. If you say I’m ignorant to think that average White Canadians are just a bunch of beer-drinking, hockey watching boring old people, then you have to tell me what you guys are really all about. Now you complain about your weak-minded leaders and how we Muslims are exploiting them to our own benefit. But if it is true that leaders like Trudeau are weak (I happen to think he is a great, strong leader) that is more evidence that your people are lost and don’t know who they are, they can only define themselves in negatives. The truth is your people fear us Muslims because we are younger, confident, and have a strong identity. So there is definitely an element of envy in this otherwise irrational hostility to our community. You know that we will be prosperous in the future and also gain more political capital. At the present we are a young and fairly new community. We have our own struggles. But just like many ethnic groups that arrived here about a century ago, worked hard and made a place for themselves. I’m talking about the Italians, Jews, etc., they too faced similar hostility and “nativism”, but today they dominate places like New York because they stuck to their identity and ensured their community remained cohesive. We Muslims are doing the same and we are simply facing the latest manifestation of “nativism” which is rooted in envy. But the mistake which the previous generations of Italian and Jewish immigrants made was that they gradually lost their identity and simply became American. They began to intermarry with other people and lost the community spirit. Now if you go to those old Italian and Jewish neighborhoods of the Five Boroughs, you will see many Muslims, South Asians, and other recently arrived immigrant groups. We are following the same pattern, but hopefully we will not make the same mistakes of intermarrying and gradually assimilating.



The South Asian community in general is very prosperous in Canada. The Sikhs in particular have a strong work ethic. I live here in Brampton which is predominantly Sikh and Punjabi. Those people own very large houses, drive the latest expensive cars, have thriving families, good jobs. Their younger generation are becoming educated because they have proper family values. They don’t tell their kids to leave at age 18. They work hard and send their kids to the best universities. They also help them get started financially when they get married. This is why the Sikhs have risen so fast and are so successful in Canada. We Muslims are definitely not as successful as Sikhs, because our community has some bad habits, but still we too have positive prospects in the future, especially South Asian Muslims as compared to Arabs or Black Muslims. Generally speaking, we South Asians are very hard working and prosperous people when given the right opportunities which we definitely have in Canada. Now I realize that when those White people whose lives are a failure, have no families, high school dropouts, drunkards, homeless, drug addicts, etc., see the prosperity of South Asians they can’t help but feel envious. But they technically too had the same opportunities in Canada. But they squandered them because of their inferior family structure and bad habits.

 

[Mowich]

Polygyny comes natural to the pre-modern Arabs. It has everything to do with social and cultural conditioning. You will find that people who are ex-cessively devoted to and enamored by their wives tend to be weak and un-spiritual. They do not have a satisfying intimate relationship with the Royalty and so seek to substitute the emptiness with extreme devotion and ado-ration of their spouse. I’m not saying you shouldn’t love your wife, but everything has to be in moderation and in the right balance. If you make your wife into an idol of course polygyny will be repulsive to you. The fact of the matter is that devotion to your spouse when it goes overboard is quite unhealthy, especially considering what such extreme devotion risks given the instability of this life. So there is no substitute for a person’s spiritual and emotional connection to his Maker, not even the relationship with his wife. Therefore, when you have this psychology, you will see that polygyny is not at all repulsive. It is totally human nature of the male to want variety of partners. If your wife dies will you not remarry? Many people also get divorced. All this shows that the husband wife relationship, though very important and ought to be cherished, is not the supreme relationship. It is definitely possible to love multiple women simultaneously as long as that love does not penetrate too deep into the heart that it becomes a form of idolatry. The fact that the husband wife relationship isn’t meant to be at such a level is self evident when you think about how initially the relation-ship is very romantic and intense, but as time goes on, children are born, both become more mature and hormones begin to subside, the relationship kind of cools off and loses the intensity. This is completely natural. Many men make the mistake of thinking they need to divorce their wife because the chemistry they had together in high school or college years has subsided. This is a fatal blunder. As I said it is the natural course of any romantic relationship. In order to reinvigorate one’s emotions, instead of divorcing one’s wife and finding another love partner, such men should simply practice polygyny. They will find that at some times they are more intensely in-volved with one wife while the relationship with the other is a bit cool. But this is fluid and things go up and down. Hence polygyny is very advantageous for a man’s emotional needs. As for equal treatment, the Qur’an it-self has said it is ultimately impossible because it isn’t within human nature to 100% treat everyone equally. We don’t even treat our children equally no matter how much we try to do so.

This tirade is probably the biggest load of misogynist garbage I've had the displeasure to read in this forum.

Canada shouldn't be part of Western civilization, because Canada doesn't belong to any single racial group.

Really? Pray tell which Western country does?

Since Canada's first nations were here before anyone else, and historically suffered genocide after the arrival of the Europeans in 1492, it is only fair to allow them to define what Canada is.

A total non-starter as we live in a democracy. Everyone has the right to help define what our country is and so it should be. That happens to include every single nationality represented in our country. Your vision of our country is skewed by your obvious hatred of and jealousy for the people of our country - all of them.

I don't say there are too many Brits in Canada. Only that Brits who have arrived in Canada quite recently behave as though Canada is their "holiday home". It is disturbing that Brits who arrived in Canada literally yesterday suddenly become political and social leaders and lead the socio-political narrative of Canada, despite the fact that there are people in Canada who have been here much longer, but because they are ethnic minorities or visible minorities they do not have the political and social capital of a Brit who came to Canada just last week. This is a symptom of a big problem in Canada which needs to be addressed. I think a similar problem exists in the US. Educated Brits come to America and suddenly they become influential political and social leaders. The late Christopher Hitchens comes to mind.

Well I guess there is some comfort in knowing that you hate Brits too. Cold though it may be.

As for Muslim refugees, yes Canada needs to accept a lot more Syrian, Iraqi, Afghan and Rohingya refugees, but also non-Muslim refugees, like Haitians who are being coming to us from south of the border, and also Mexicans and Chicanos who are unjustly being deported from the US too.

Canada needs do no such thing. Canada has opened its doors to thousands of refugees this year alone and let us not forget all the illegals who continue to walk across our borders in flight from the US.

 

[Decapoda]

I’ve asked people here several times to define Canadian values and explain what Canadian culture is. The only response I get is how Canada is not Islamic and disagrees with Islamic values and culture. In other words, they want to define Canada through negation, but cannot find anything to posit.

It sounds to me like maybe you've been asking the wrong people. There's a term for this, it's called wilful ignorance, and it's a tactic used by obtuse, small minded people to try and convince themselves their perspective is superior. Maybe instead of approaching this like some sort of interrogation, it may be more insightful if you try integrating into your surroundings and looking at Canadian values from an empathetic perspective rather than an ignorant one. This is the concept behind and foundation of community, society, and culture, and is most certainly why you are unable to identify with Canadian values. Of course, I don't expect you to actually take this advice, you're motive is one of hostile takeover, not collaborative nation building.

Now you complain about your weak-minded leaders and how we Muslims are exploiting them to our own benefit. But if it is true that leaders like Trudeau are weak (I happen to think he is a great, strong leader) that is more evidence that your people are lost and don’t know who they are, they can only define themselves in negatives. The truth is your people fear us Muslims because we are younger, confident, and have a strong identity. So there is definitely an element of envy in this otherwise irrational hostility to our community. You know that we will be prosperous in the future and also gain more political capital.

Spoken like a true nation conqueror. I have little doubt that you will continue to exploit any weakness that ours or any other nation exposes.

But the mistake which the previous generations of Italian and Jewish immigrants made was that they gradually lost their identity and simply became American. They began to intermarry with other people and lost the community spirit. Now if you go to those old Italian and Jewish neighborhoods of the Five Boroughs, you will see many Muslims, South Asians, and other recently arrived immigrant groups. We are following the same pattern, but hopefully we will not make the same mistakes of intermarrying and gradually assimilating.

Previous generations of immigrants came to North America with intention to fully integrate into their surroundings. They kept their heritage, but adopted their new culture. They were and still are proud to call themselves Canadian. Your motives are completely different, you are talking about segregating the country, dividing it into cultural and racial groups, and breaking down any semblance of unity. You appear to have no interest in building this country through a common value system. You are interested in tearing the country apart through exploitation of weaknesses. You are intolerant, racist, and your values do not fit within a welcoming country such as Canada. Your motives are like that of a parasite.

 

[ZulFiqar786]

Your motives are like that of a parasite.

A parasite sustains itself at the host’s expense. In social terms, habitually relies on or exploits others and gives nothing in return. Our Muslim community isn’t parasitic. In fact overall we contribute more than we take in terms of social benefits. Our goal isn’t to “take over” but rather to carve out a space for ourselves in order to preserve our religion, customs, culture and heritage. This is no way harms other communities residing in Canada. Canada is a country, not a nation. It is a country where multiple nations and communities coexist in a shared geographic space with a unified political and integrated economic system. But it has never and should never be a “nation”. Each community has the right to pursue its own destiny, even if that entails separate paths. The Muslim community, while still young and with no clear defined leadership in this country, will hopefully move towards greater cohesion by pursuing a tendency to preserve its religious identity, customs, culture, language and sense of history. We Muslims should not cave into social pressure to become part of the undifferentiated “everyone else”. We want to maintain our uniqueness because we do conceive of ourselves as a “chosen people”. The Muslim community in Canada is not an economic burden. Our people aren’t all living on welfare, living unproductive, parasitic lives. We happen to be educated, prosperous, and very good at small business. We have an intention to have a communal leadership, ideally invested in our religious leaders (Imams and Ulama). I have studied how Jews lived during the exile. The diaspora community had an “exilarch” and the elders of the community acted like a council to represent and lead the community while in a state of exile. Likewise, we Muslims as a minority living in a predominantly non-Muslim country will work to creating an office for an “Exilarch” like figure, and our elders and religious leaders will likewise become our social and political leaders to represent us and our interests on the national scene. We are heavily invested in the continuation of multiculturalism, cosmopolitanism, and liberalism because the alternative will decimate our community. The alternative is a form of White racist Canadian nationalism which will turn us into second-class citizens. The very survival of our community depends on the continuation and strengthening of multiculturalism and political liberalism so we can carve our a space for ourselves in this setting. We have no hostile or nefarious intentions of imposing our values on other communities. In fact, we have potential for strengthening natural alliances with other minority communities, such as other racial minorities, Blacks, the Indigenous people, Chasidic Jews and Sikhs.

 

[taxslave]

I do have a question though. why would a man want more than one wife? Treating them all equally would be impossible and that would be bound to lead to conflict or at least ill feelings between them.

Heck, let's just reverse the tables for a moment. How comfortable do you think I'd be with my wife taking a second husband?

OK, I know, not all men are the same just as not women are the same, but still, I can imagine that most would not be happy with such an arrangement.

The honey do list gets cut in half.

Polygyny comes natural to the pre-modern Arabs. It has everything to do with social and cultural conditioning. You will find that people who are ex-cessively devoted to and enamored by their wives tend to be weak and un-spiritual. They do not have a satisfying intimate relationship with the Royalty and so seek to substitute the emptiness with extreme devotion and ado-ration of their spouse. I’m not saying you shouldn’t love your wife, but everything has to be in moderation and in the right balance. If you make your wife into an idol of course polygyny will be repulsive to you. The fact of the matter is that devotion to your spouse when it goes overboard is quite unhealthy, especially considering what such extreme devotion risks given the instability of this life. So there is no substitute for a person’s spiritual and emotional connection to his Maker, not even the relationship with his wife. Therefore, when you have this psychology, you will see that polygyny is not at all repulsive. It is totally human nature of the male to want variety of partners. If your wife dies will you not remarry? Many people also get divorced. All this shows that the husband wife relationship, though very important and ought to be cherished, is not the supreme relationship. It is definitely possible to love multiple women simultaneously as long as that love does not penetrate too deep into the heart that it becomes a form of idolatry. The fact that the husband wife relationship isn’t meant to be at such a level is self evident when you think about how initially the relation-ship is very romantic and intense, but as time goes on, children are born, both become more mature and hormones begin to subside, the relationship kind of cools off and loses the intensity. This is completely natural. Many men make the mistake of thinking they need to divorce their wife because the chemistry they had together in high school or college years has subsided. This is a fatal blunder. As I said it is the natural course of any romantic relationship. In order to reinvigorate one’s emotions, instead of divorcing one’s wife and finding another love partner, such men should simply practice polygyny. They will find that at some times they are more intensely in-volved with one wife while the relationship with the other is a bit cool. But this is fluid and things go up and down. Hence polygyny is very advantageous for a man’s emotional needs. As for equal treatment, the Qur’an it-self has said it is ultimately impossible because it isn’t within human nature to 100% treat everyone equally. We don’t even treat our children equally no matter how much we try to do so.



Canada shouldn't be part of Western civilization, because Canada doesn't belong to any single racial group. Western civilization is the civilization of White European people. So long as Canada is considered a "Western" country it will always be dominated by Whites and there will always be a hurdle for racial minorities. Since Canada's first nations were here before anyone else, and historically suffered genocide after the arrival of the Europeans in 1492, it is only fair to allow them to define what Canada is. Otherwise Canada must not be part of any civilization, but simply a State with many different nations and cultures that are interacting in a common economic and political system, but not a single cultural system.

I don't say there are too many Brits in Canada. Only that Brits who have arrived in Canada quite recently behave as though Canada is their "holiday home". It is disturbing that Brits who arrived in Canada literally yesterday suddenly become political and social leaders and lead the socio-political narrative of Canada, despite the fact that there are people in Canada who have been here much longer, but because they are ethnic minorities or visible minorities they do not have the political and social capital of a Brit who came to Canada just last week. This is a symptom of a big problem in Canada which needs to be addressed. I think a similar problem exists in the US. Educated Brits come to America and suddenly they become influential political and social leaders. The late Christopher Hitchens comes to mind.

As for Muslim refugees, yes Canada needs to accept a lot more Syrian, Iraqi, Afghan and Rohingya refugees, but also non-Muslim refugees, like Haitians who are being coming to us from south of the border, and also Mexicans and Chicanos who are unjustly being deported from the US too.

Aside from all the other trash you wrote why are Muslim women not allowed multiple husbands then?

A parasite sustains itself at the host’s expense. In social terms, habitually relies on or exploits others and gives nothing in return. Our Muslim community isn’t parasitic. In fact overall we contribute more than we take in terms of social benefits. Our goal isn’t to “take over” but rather to carve out a space for ourselves in order to preserve our religion, customs, culture and heritage. This is no way harms other communities residing in Canada. Canada is a country, not a nation. It is a country where multiple nations and communities coexist in a shared geographic space with a unified political and integrated economic system. But it has never and should never be a “nation”. Each community has the right to pursue its own destiny, even if that entails separate paths. The Muslim community, while still young and with no clear defined leadership in this country, will hopefully move towards greater cohesion by pursuing a tendency to preserve its religious identity, customs, culture, language and sense of history. We Muslims should not cave into social pressure to become part of the undifferentiated “everyone else”. We want to maintain our uniqueness because we do conceive of ourselves as a “chosen people”. The Muslim community in Canada is not an economic burden. Our people aren’t all living on welfare, living unproductive, parasitic lives. We happen to be educated, prosperous, and very good at small business. We have an intention to have a communal leadership, ideally invested in our religious leaders (Imams and Ulama). I have studied how Jews lived during the exile. The diaspora community had an “exilarch” and the elders of the community acted like a council to represent and lead the community while in a state of exile. Likewise, we Muslims as a minority living in a predominantly non-Muslim country will work to creating an office for an “Exilarch” like figure, and our elders and religious leaders will likewise become our social and political leaders to represent us and our interests on the national scene. We are heavily invested in the continuation of multiculturalism, cosmopolitanism, and liberalism because the alternative will decimate our community. The alternative is a form of White racist Canadian nationalism which will turn us into second-class citizens. The very survival of our community depends on the continuation and strengthening of multiculturalism and political liberalism so we can carve our a space for ourselves in this setting. We have no hostile or nefarious intentions of imposing our values on other communities. In fact, we have potential for strengthening natural alliances with other minority communities, such as other racial minorities, Blacks, the Indigenous people, Chasidic Jews and Sikhs.




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You can preserve your third world culture in whatever third world country you came from. We are not interested in going 700 years back in time.

 

[ZulFiqar786]

The honey do list gets cut in half.



Aside from all the other trash you wrote why are Muslim women not allowed multiple husbands then?



You can preserve your third world culture in whatever third world country you came from. We are not interested in going 700 years back in time.

Islam gives us a code of honor. We don’t “share” our women. Otherwise they would be prostitutes.

 

[lone wolf]

Islam gives us a code of honor. We don’t “share” our women. Otherwise they would be prostitutes.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Your women? You own them?... like slaves or prostitutes? (the latter of which is a rental - unless you're the pimp)